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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

Who is now the Favorite?


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  • Poll closed .
This is a country that has a GDP $14 trillion, a defence budget in excess of $600 billion and exported around $70 billion in arms. They just signed a deal worth $70 billion with the Saudis, you honestly think that your puny $11 billion matters much to them. Get off your high horse and learn to accept the reality, their defence companies will continue to churn out billions in revenues without your MMRCA contract.

well honey it will just for you and i am sure 11billion is much more money for pak

think how will be IAF with below list

SU30MKI
PAK-FA
LCA2
RAFFALE
MCA
mirrage 2000

ahh is there any single chance for PAF against IAF no buddy not even 5%
 
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well honey it will just for you and i am sure 11billion is much more money for pak

think how will be IAF with below list

SU30MKI
PAK-FA
LCA2
RAFFALE
MCA
mirrage 2000

ahh is there any single chance for PAF against IAF no buddy not even 5%

Please do not insult our efforts by comparing ourselves with PAF.

We are doing all this mehnat for China, not for Pakistan. Pakistanis will, most probably, never even see anything more than LCA2 and MCA at best.
 
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This is news to me, I do believe exceptions should be made for trusted partners. Unfortunately, Indian MMRCA shenanigans has made it abundantly clear India cannot be trusted.

India can be trusted in America's perspective. Especially in the post 9/11 world. As mentioned by dash, America has supplied India with American made equipment.

India is currently the largest importer of weapons. Nearly 70% of its inventory are imported.
BBC News - India is world's 'largest importer' of arms, says study

To be honest, the F-16s and F-18s were not good enough to meet the IAF requirements. At least the Americans could have come up with a better proposition.

The Europeans would fare better in the global arms market now and the near future unless the Americans come up with better propositions relating to combat aircraft being supplied to India. India would make a great customer. Perhaps even greater than those Middle Easterners.
 
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Question which missiles Rafale will use if selected: MICA? AMRAAM? R-77? Which targeting pod - Damocles, Litening III?

Rafale will use Damocles targetting pod,MBDA Meteor,MBDA mica
 
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MISSILES-RAFALE-2.jpg

AM39.jpg

MISS-MICA-EM.jpg

MICA-EM.jpg

missiles-air-12-ASMP-rafale.jpg

ASMP amélioré - Rafale - Armée de l'Air
 
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I think we are not the one who cannot be trusted... it was US who are in deeper relation with Pakistan.. giving new F-16 armed with harpoon for WoT.. dont you think it isnt funny??....

Secondly MMRCA was a very open and transparent process.. if IAF feel Boeing/LM didnt suit there requirement it doesnt mean it is a bad plane... just for Indian geography it didnt suit...

thridly IAF needs plane and not strategic relationship here..... if IAF had new planes and comes with a slam of sanction in future?? what is the need of such plane.... Butter we can go for a trusted partner like France by paying some extra money.... Even IAF will be suspicious about EADS consortium for the sanctions slapped after 1998....

India was alone so far.... and we will be doing fine...

Not only sanctions.. we have to run for approval from the now angry Unkil Sam ..

One like this every now and then

2v0xxly.jpg
 
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The $10bn jet fighter deal: IAF went by the rule book

New Delhi, May 1 (IANS) India’s decision to shortlist two European combat planes for a $10.4 billion tender for 126 multi-role jet fighters was dictated by its air force’s technical evaluation of the six contenders and geopolitics played a minor role in it, say officials and experts about the decision that left two US aerospace majors out of the race despite aggressive marketing and buoyant Indo-US relations.
‘We have gone entirely by the rule book. The defence procurement procedure dictates the MMRCA tender process,’ a senior defence ministry official told IANS on condition of anonymity, referring to the race for the medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) contract.
India had April 27 asked European consortium EADS Cassidian and French Dassault to continue in the race for 126 MMRCA contract, while conveying to US firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Russia’s United Aircraft Corp and Sweden’s SAAB that their planes had not made the cut.
Keen Indian military aviation watchers Air Commodore Jasjit Singh and Air Vice Marshal Kapil Kak too concurred with the ministry official, but pointed out that the down select was not a rejection of the other planes but an indication of what suited the IAF’s future operational plans best and at the right cost.
‘The IAF has only stated that the two European combat planes met most of the 643 parameters for selection of the MMRCA and are the most profitable. It has not rejected the other aircraft,’ said KaK, a former IAF pilot.
‘The IAF recommends on the basis of its assessment and evaluation of what it needs and the government takes a call on it. The broader strategic considerations will come in much later at the political leadership level,’ Kak told IANS.
‘The firms always knew that non-compliance will eliminate them from the contest,’ said Jasjit Singh, a decorated IAF officer and director of the IAF think tank Centre for Air Power Studies.
He also drew attention to Defence Minister A.K. Antony’s refrain on the tender process being transparent till the end.
An IAF officer in the know of the evaluation process said none of the six aircraft had fulfilled all 643 parameters, but the European (Germany, Spain, Britain and Italy) consortium’s Eurofighter Typhoon and French Rafale had done well on more parameters than others.
The trials were held in Bangalore, high altitude Leh and Jodhpur desert and at a location of the firm’s choice for their weapons. The contract will be awarded before March 2012.
Though IAF chief Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik is on record that the CISMOA communications interoperability agreement mandatory under US laws for transfer of high-end technology to India was irrelevant, the non-signing of the pact would mean restrictions on the planes’ operational capability.
‘The government will not accept any limitation (due to CISMOA) on the technology transfer. The US did take the DRDO off the entity list that restricted transfer of dual use technology by American firms. But that meant nothing because DRDO needs nothing from the Americans at present,’ Jasjit Singh said.
‘From 2005 to 2008, the Americans went on their limb to help India end nuclear apartheid by signing the civilian nuclear deal despite the discriminatory Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. But that doesn’t mean India should do a quid pro quo. We are going to use the fighter jet now selected for another 40 to 50 years,’ Kak said.
India is also wary of US arms supply to Pakistan, particularly the F-16s. ‘We are not their ally, but Pakistan is. There can be no compulsions in bilateral relations,’ Kak added.
In recent years, India has awarded some major defence deals to both the ‘new friend’ US and ‘trusted partner’ Russia to keep them happy but now it is the turn of the Europeans to reap the benefits.
The US won the $2.1 billion contract for P8I naval patrol aircraft and the C-130J transporter for special operations. It is also likely to sign the $5.8 billion contract for 10 C-17 heavylifters. Russia walked away with a $30-billion deal for 250 fifth generation fighters and 50 medium transport aircraft.
‘In such a scenario, India may not like to put all its eggs in one or two baskets. It would like to spread the wealth around,’ another serving IAF officer said.
The $10bn jet fighter deal: IAF went by the rule book
 
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^^^^ Hoppingly Rafale wins the deal...

Can we have some light whether we will GaN module or GaS module with Rafale?.... Hoping Sancho or some one will throw light....
 
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hmm.. so that means EF is out of contention as well? french must be rubbing their hands with glee!!

Thats one side, but we cant say that US willl deny BAE systems the rights to sell its own aircraft. The four countries will have a serious problem with US if it does so. So in my view US will by all means approve the sale of its tech. Needless to say BAE is the 3rd majot defense supplier in US.
 
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hmm.. so that means EF is out of contention as well? french must be rubbing their hands with glee!!

Its old news and everybody knows it too.. thats why EFT was chosen..;)

Also if we chose the consortium we will be having Germany who in last month blocked Indian oil payments to Iran under US pressure? :victory:

Or the Italy who opposes India's candidate ship in UNSC and wants to talk about J &K more..

Or the Spada selling Spain ...

And also who is going to give the shares from their account to India, if chosen as a partner???... Is it from 46% share of UK, or is it of Germany.... ???

Also it would be a pleasure for HAL to co ordinate the logistics between the 100s and thousands of small companies spread across the Europe and build it fast..

Considering our previous issues on aftersales including UK, it would now resemble a government office scenario now..
For any issues regarding spares , upgrades or whatever .. when we ask for a decision or opinion .. we will be hearing "ask the german guy " from UK guy and "ask the Italian guy" from the Spain..

Its gonna be so much fun :lol:
 
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