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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

Who is now the Favorite?


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EFT AESA is much better than Rafale's. It supposed to have EA capabilities. Number of T/R modules also more than double.

Although even I think that (at least for range), the cruicial point is when? The fact remains that the development is still not funded by the partner countries and that even the consortium admitted that a first version could be ready by 2015, but the more the funding is delayed, the more delayed will be the development.
Rafales AESA is ready, fulfills the requirements and will have EA capabilities as well. In this field we can even expect more frm the French, when we look at how capable the SPECTRA EWS is, but more over when we keep in mind that they develop dedicted electonic attack systems that makes Rafale at least equal to the F18 Growler since quiet some time:

Airborne Electronic Attack (AEA)
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New Airborne Electronic Attack concept for electronic support jamming missions in present and future environments

Increased ES/EA mission capability through advanced jamming functions

* Pod or internally mounted, for fighter aircraft, UAV, J-UCAV or mission aircraft with network centric warfare (NCW) capabilities
* Very high power main / side / scattered lobe jamming
* Unsigned raid DDA, up to RF horizon action possible
* Smart techniques / coherent waveforms / covert jamming
* Smart power management using active phased array transmitter

Outstanding performance with latest jamming technologies

* Solid-state active phased array AESA jamming

* Highly sensitive digital reception
* Highly effective multi-bit DRFM jamming techniques

Main features

* Very high ERP, for main, side and scattered lobes jamming
* Multiple DRFM architecture for simultaneous beam aimed multi-threat jamming
* Smart digital jamming techniques
* Wide angular coverage, up to 360°
* Extended low and high brand threat coverage capabilities

Carbone Demonstration Aircraft
The new Thales AEA concepts and technologies have been implemented within the CARBONE demonstration programme.
CARBONE was presented and evaluated during the MACE X NATO trials, operating against sophisticated eastern/western radar technologies.

Airborne Electronic Attack (AEA) - Thales


The same AESA jammers that are integrated into SPECTRA and check the brochure on the right!

earafale.jpg
 
While I was checking the Thales site for new infos, this press release which was send out around Aero India caught my attention:

Samtel Thales Avionics JV is officially incorporated


09 February 2011
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Bangalore, India, 09 February 2011 – Samtel Display Systems Ltd. and Thales Avionics SA are proud to announce the official incorporation of their new Joint Venture company, Samtel Thales Avionics Ltd.

“This is a key step for Thales in India and its ambitious development plan, actively encouraged by the Indian Defence Ministry,” said Yves Joannic, Vice President in charge of Thales Avionics Helicopter activities and one of the Directors of the new company. ”This joint venture with a national industry partner makes Samtel Thales Avionics Ltd. a very credible player for future programmes.”...

...Samtel Thales Avionics at AeroIndia 2011
Samtel Thales Avionics (STA) will be participating in the AeroIndia exhibition to be held at Bangalore during 9-13 Feb 2011. The STA booth will be within the Samtel booth and will showcase some of the upcoming JV products. Visitors will be able to see mock-ups of the Helmet Mounted Sight Displays,TopOwl and Divy Drishti, as well as a presentation of the Infra Red Search and Track (IRST) system and the Integrated Electronic Standby Instrument (IESI). For more information, visit Samtel Thales Avionics at AeroIndia, Hall E, Stand E-27....


Samtel Thales Avionics JV is officially incorporated - Thales Group


So I checked the Samtel site as well and look what I found:

Divy Drishti

Indian Helmet Mounted Sight and Display for Indian fighter aircraft

* A multi-role system improvement for Air-to-Air and Air-to-Surface missions
* The safest solution for operational effectiveness enhancement
* Based on Thales advanced and mature technologies, already flying on Indian Navy MiG-29K and qualified on Mirage 2000

SDS::Leading Manufacturer of DisplaySystems,CAT,MFD,HUD,HMD,ATE&IADS in India


The simple licence production of Topsight - I seems to have moved a step further to Divy Drishti a HMS JV, but even more interesting was this:

INFRA RED SEARCH AND TRACK

Thales' Front-Sector Optronics system is fully integrated into the Rafale. Operating in optical wavelengths, this sensor is immune to radar jamming and provides covert long-range detection and identification, high-resolution angular tracking and laser range-finding for air, sea and ground targets.

FSO has high-precision 3D localisation capabilities that it derives from lasers for measuring target distance.

Its near-visible waveband capability is especially valuable. It has a narrow field for identifying possible targets in situations where visual contact is required by rules of engagement or during quick reaction alerts. The FSO enhances the Rafale’s situation awareness capabilities and reinforces its ability to operate in severe environments.

Infra Red Search and Track


Does it mean that Samtel now produces the FSO from Rafale, or are they the JV partner for the NG IRST channel of FSO that is under development now?

On a sight note, the fact that Samtel also will build the Topowl HMS for helicopter, makes it even more likely that LCH will use it in future.
 
when J20 even thinks of bombing Indian cities, FGFA would be planning to shoot down the J20 before it can complete its mission.
you guys keep dreaming....:lol: FGFA its a Paper Plane, J-20 its a Stealth aircraft, your Rafale, MKi and T-50 will be all scrap metal before you guys even know...

J-20 :china:
 
you guys keep dreaming....:lol: FGFA its a Paper Plane, J-20 its a Stealth aircraft, your Rafale, MKi and T-50 will be all scrap metal before you guys even know...

J-20 :china:

yes yes.. even better than flying sausers... boombastic... world class... all others are waste... :china::china:
 
you guys keep dreaming....:lol: FGFA its a Paper Plane, J-20 its a Stealth aircraft, your Rafale, MKi and T-50 will be all scrap metal before you guys even know...

J-20 :china:

Are you getting Orgasm ,whenever you name J20 ,coz am suspecting your syndrome ??:coffee:
 
Stop being a f*cktard and stop with this personal attacks.



Wrong - The equivalent of SEALS is our MARCOS and not NSG. The equivalent of NSG is SWAT.



A retard with IQ 40 would know a specialized POLICE force and an Elite Navy SF unit will NOT be in the same league.



No one is claiming NSG is better than SEALS. It is you who is saying NSG is inferior because they did not perform well in mumbai. Well what is criteria for excellent perfomance, wise one ?



It affects no one except making you look foolish by comparing a specialised Police force and and Elite Navy SF unit with two very different mission profiles.


Only sensible thing you have spoken.


I dont give a shyt as to what you think - the end result you dont know what you are speaking.


Even if they train they cant miraculously sweep clean about 700 rooms in multiple storeys with fire raging in any less time with suicde minded terrorists on the loose.



Not a fault of the NSG. Blame the Govt for all you want.



Patently wrong - I was in Mumbai and I know that a 100 m perimeter was set up. Stop blabbering.



The hotel plans of the TAJ were given to the NSG.



Blame the bureaucracy for that and stop blaming the NSG. They acquitted themselves very well with the little equipment they had.

You are just confusing the Bureaucratic hassles with the incompetence of the NSG commandos themselves are you cannot be more wrong.





Hey moron.....realize that SWAT will run rings around NSG. A retard will realize that SWAT would be able to handle this job much better. Why didn t we use MARCOs maybe their performance is just abysmal.....I will blame NSG they should be teaching the gov't how their job has to be done. They need to educate the freaking politicians not the other way around. A patient doesn;t tell a doctor how to do their job right? 100m perimeter is NO perimeter. Got that......1/2 -1 mile perimeter should should been set up. On top that all communications should been closely monitored. We can buy all the equipment in the world but if don;t think about endless possibilities on how to sue them efficiently and then try to counter that then its useless. It took too much time to get the TAJ plans....there was no database set up in a big city like BomBay.....think this is one of the key reasons why building codes are never met and why encroachment is such an issue. SO STOP BLABBERING and blindly defending our failures you f--ing moron.....Our politicians suck and the NSG lacks proper equipment basics like f-ing knew pads.....but hold them acceptable to the training that's all.....I agree our NSG had no chance in hell when they lack the proper equipment. the toy o equipment they lacked is appalling, here take a look.............

Upgrades after 26/11
CornerShot Guns [12]
Laser Designator
Advance Audio Communication Set
GPS & GPRS Technological Systems
Wall Surveillance Radars
Night Vision Devices
Protective Goggles
Special Tactical Gears
Thermal Imaging Cameras [13]
Mini Remotely Operated Vehicles
Non skid shoes
Ghillie suits
Helmet with in built hands free communication
Level 3 bullet-proof vest
Knee pad and elbow pads
SIG SG 553
Taser
Chartered helicopters and ability to use civilian aircraft for emergencies.
Anti-Materiel Rifles like the OFB produced Vidhwansak and possibly the Russian made OSV-96.
 
yes yes.. even better than flying sausers... boombastic... world class... all others are waste... :china::china:
take a look at this pic and tell me if it doesn't look like a UFO...:azn:

20110430-u4dbc116983b389430r.jpg

1105010000e4a3df2fd6cf3e51.jpg


you guys wished you had something as alien looking as the J-20
 
you guys keep dreaming....:lol: FGFA its a Paper Plane, J-20 its a Stealth aircraft, your Rafale, MKi and T-50 will be all scrap metal before you guys even know...

J-20 :china:

Yes, of course FGFA is a paper plane, dont worry every Indian kid will be flying one when you send 2000 of your j-20, Imagine a billion of such.:smokin:
 
When will you come out of the mentality that the world spins around you guys ..huh..anyway, Looks like you forgot the real meaning/difference strategic partners and strategic allies....your strategic ally was Pakistan. Thank God we are disinterested in both!

I feel like you just dropped your pants to show me your manhood; amusing but completely unnecessary.:lol:
India is a great nation with immense untapped potential, this deal had a greater significance for Washington then a mere commercial transaction worth a few billion dollars.


Like Tin Man said C`est la vie..
 
take a look at this pic and tell me if it doesn't look like a UFO...:azn:

20110430-u4dbc116983b389430r.jpg

1105010000e4a3df2fd6cf3e51.jpg


you guys wished you had something as alien looking as the J-20

I find this a very interesting insight into the Pakistani pschye- befor MMRCA two favourites were announced the Pakistnai "fan-boys" (note I HATE using this term) were more than happy with their JF-17 and F-16 saying it could handily the ENTIRE IAF in case of war (complete nonsense of course-MKI need I say more?) and now they have moves into to J-20 for whatever reason even though there is NO Pakistani involvement in this project and NO confirmation PAF will even receive any (and if they do it won't ve until 2027-35 at the earliest). As I've said before- living off others (Chinese) achievements is just pathetic, it's as if you've accepted you can't compete with India anymore so you're content to hang of China's coat strings and be dragged along. Note China has no interest in helping Pakistan, it only wants to use it as a proxy against its regional rival.
 
I find this a very interesting insight into the Pakistani pschye- befor MMRCA two favourites were announced the Pakistnai "fan-boys" (note I HATE using this term) were more than happy with their JF-17 and F-16 saying it could handily the ENTIRE IAF in case of war (complete nonsense of course-MKI need I say more?) and now they have moves into to J-20 for whatever reason even though there is NO Pakistani involvement in this project and NO confirmation PAF will even receive any (and if they do it won't ve until 2027-35 at the earliest). As I've said before- living off others (Chinese) achievements is just pathetic, it's as if you've accepted you can't compete with India anymore so you're content to hang of China's coat strings and be dragged along. Note China has no interest in helping Pakistan, it only wants to use it as a proxy against its regional rival.

Hey kid... hes not Pakistani.. so stop posting brain farts.
 
Europe Wins Indian MMRCA Competition – Or So It Seems
Anyone even remotely familiar with the vagaries and complexities of Indian defence procurement will be only too aware of the risks involved with commenting on the results of a major competition there before the relevant contract has been signed and has entered into force (as well as, on a number of occasions, even after that).
But even with a prudent attitude, it is nowadays clear that the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon have been shortlisted as the two final contenders in the Indian Air Force’s multi-billion-dollar MMRCA competition for the procurement (mostly through licence construction) of 126 latest-generation multi-role fighter aircraft.

Such a choice in principle obvious entails truly monumental strategic and political implications for the future of India as a whole, the more so in that it implies rejecting the Russian (MiG-35) and most particular the American offers (F-16, F/A-18). These implications will most certainly provide food for thought to commentators and analysts for many months to come. This column is however focused on a not-so-collateral aspect, namely on what the Indian choice tells us about the respective characteristics and performance of the some of the world’s leading fighter designs, competing against each other on the global defence market.

The Indian Air Force has carried out an extremely stringent and detailed competitive evaluation process, extensively testing the six competitors (Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen, MiG-35, F-16, F/A-18) and assessing them against each other on a list, that included some 650 parameters. It is highly dubious whether any other air force in the world ever had the chance to perform a similar process, thus gaining a detailed, first-hand knowledge of the respective strong points and shortcomings of the best combat aircraft money can buy. And at the end of this technological evaluation process, two European designs have emerged as the best of the best.

The key point to be underlined here is that the Rafale and the Typhoon have been downselected ’on technical and operational grounds alone’, that is, even before discussions and negotiations on price, technology transfer and offset are to start. This on the one hand implies that it is perfectly feasible for such discussions and negotiations to eventually fail, leading to the competition being reopened (hence, the need for a prudent attitude). But on the other hand, the conclusion is inescapable: the latest and most capable European fighter aircraft are vastly superior – in terms of design and overall performance _ to everything the US industry can currently offer. They are so superior, in fact, that after having tested them a discerning customer would not even bother to ask for the price of the American competitors. And this is so, despite both the F-16 and F/A-18 boasting the significant advantage of an arguably more advanced and most certainly way more mature combat system, including at its top a second-generation fully operational AESA radar as against European prototypes.This situation, with the likes of the Rafale and Typhoon having no real export-cleared US counterpart, has nothing to do with the capabilities and technological level of the respective aerospace industries. Rather, it is linked to the choice of the timing for the launch of the development programmes for new-generation combat aircraft on the two sides of the Atlantic, as well with the US decision to go for an uncompromising stealth approach which, just because brilliantly successful must remain the exclusive equipment of the US Air Force.

The perception of such a significant “commercial capability gap”, whereby the US will progressively become less and less able to beat off the European (and Russian) competition on the global market for combat aircraft until the F-35 becomes fully operational and credible, is not a new development. Indeed it surfaced a dozen years ago if not even earlier, and it has been the main rationale for the unprecedented decision to launch the JSF programme as a “multi-national project” – the undeclared but only too evident goals being to drain European financial resources, that would otherwise be invested in the further development of European designs, as well as lure at least some countries into taking a blind commitment towards eventually acquiring an aircraft, of unknown performance and at an unspecified price.

But not everybody has fallen into the JSF trap, and there still are countries left that would rather select their new combat aircraft after taking a very close look at their performance first, before moving to discuss the price. The (preliminary) results of the Indian MMRCA competition tell the world that if you want the best, and your pockets are deep enough, with the F-22 out of the fray and the F-35 still years away, you will want to go for either the Rafale or the Typhoon. The competitors are, to put it mildly, a second-best choice.

It would be very interesting to watch whether this message will reverberate on other procurement decisions ahead – at least in countries, that can afford to say “no, thanks” to Washington.
 
sorry spark i clicked on thanks button but the post got reported.......I'm new so will take time getting used to all the functions.
 
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