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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

Who is now the Favorite?


  • Total voters
    211
  • Poll closed .
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You cant..You know you are on weaker side..:P

Go F-16..sorry Go Eurofighter...:partay:

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Ok lets have a compromise.. if EFT wins , lets start a spare parts center of typhoon..

cause guess what, they are short of it in partner countries...:lol:
 
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Ok lets have a compromise.. if EFT wins , lets start a spare parts center of typhoon..

cause guess what, they are short of it in partner countries...:lol:

Its easier to start a DHAABA for spare parts than start a R&D unit to design better engine..
Cause Guess what Rafale needs a much better engine than it has..:lol:
 
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Its easier to start a DHAABA for spare parts than start a R&D unit to design better engine..
Cause Guess what Rafale needs a much better engine than it has..:lol:

That engine supercruises and has almost equal thrust of the catfish fighter...

the R&D is for kaveri...:lol:
 
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The Snecma M88 engine in the Dassault Rafale allows it to supercruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a 1000-liter belly tank and even in the naval version; it can supercruise up to Mach 1.4 while carrying six air-to-air missiles (MBDA MICA).

"Air defense mission for flotille F12." Fox Three, issue 8, pg. 8. Retrieved: 2011-03-30.
^ Desclaux, Jacques and Jacques Serre (2003). M88 – 2 E4: Advanced New Generation Engine for Rafale Multirole Fighter. AIAA/ICAS International Air and Space Symposium and Exposition: The Next 100 Years. 14–17 July 2003, Dayton, Ohio. AIAA 2003-2610.


Or try

Supercruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:chilli:
 
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The Snecma M88 engine in the Dassault Rafale allows it to supercruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a 1000-liter belly tank and even in the naval version; it can supercruise up to Mach 1.4 while carrying six air-to-air missiles (MBDA MICA).

"Air defense mission for flotille F12." Fox Three, issue 8, pg. 8. Retrieved: 2011-03-30.
^ Desclaux, Jacques and Jacques Serre (2003). M88 – 2 E4: Advanced New Generation Engine for Rafale Multirole Fighter. AIAA/ICAS International Air and Space Symposium and Exposition: The Next 100 Years. 14–17 July 2003, Dayton, Ohio. AIAA 2003-2610.


Or try

Supercruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:chilli:
 
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http:///wa/french-rafale-fires-aasm...ance-against-a-high-speed-moving-target/3255/

French defense procurement agency DGA demonstrated AASM modular air-to-ground weapon against a land target moving at high speed. The test was carried out at the DGA’s missile test range in Biscarosse by a production Rafale fighter deployed by the DGA’s flight-test center in Cazaux. The AASM was fired from an extreme off-axis angle (90°) at a range exceeding 15 kilometers.

The impact was at a very low angle, against a moving target represented by a laser spot generated by a ground illuminator mounted on a turret, to simulate a vehicle moving at a speed of 80 km/h. Using its algorithms for detection and slaving of the trajectory to the laser spot, plus its excellent maneuverability, the AASM hit its target to within less than one meter.

This firing test demonstrates the AASM Laser’s ability to offer 1-meter accuracy against high-speed, agile land or maritime targets. Coupling this performance with its standoff firing capability, the AASM is unrivaled in the market for tactical air-to-ground weapons.

The inertial/GPS/laser-guided version of the AASM is fitted with a semi-active laser seeker, and features algorithms to track fixed or highly mobile targets during the terminal phase. It will enhance the operational flexibility already offered by the AASM family, including two versions that have been qualified for firing by the Rafale multirole fighter: inertial/GPS and inertial/GPS/infrared.

The laser terminal guidance version of the AASM will enter volume production for the French air force and navy starting at the end of 2012.
 
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Alliances of the Air by Shashi Tharoor - Project Syndicate

India’s recent decision not to purchase American warplanes for its $10 billion-plus fighter aircraft program – the largest single military tender in the country’s history – has stirred debate in defense circles worldwide. India’s defense ministry deemed the two American contenders, Boeing’s F/A-18 Superhornet and Lockheed’s F-16 Superviper, not to fulfill the requirements that it sought in a medium-size multi-role combat aircraft. With the Russian MiG-30 and the Swedish Gripen also eliminated, two European planes, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the French Rafale, are the only aircraft still in contention for an expected order of 126 planes.

India had never previously purchased an American fighter plane, and the United States hoped that India would cement the emerging bilateral strategic partnership with a hefty check. Indeed, US officials, including President Barack Obama, had lobbied for the deal, which would have pumped money and jobs into the ailing American economy. The “deeply disappointed” US ambassador to India, Tim Roemer, promptly announced his resignation. But, in a typical comment, Indian-American strategist Ashley Tellis observed trenchantly that India had chosen “to invest in a plane, not a relationship.”

The notion that a major arms purchase should be based on broader strategic considerations – the importance of the US in India’s emerging Weltpolitik – rather than on the merits of the aircraft itself, strikes Indian officials as unfair. Some deny that the decision reflects any political bias on the part of India’s taciturn, left-leaning defense minister, A. K. Antony. The choice, they aver, is a purely professional one, made by the Indian Air Force, and only ratified by the ministry.

The two European fighters are generally seen as aerodynamically superior, having outperformed both US-made aircraft in tests under the adverse climatic conditions in which they might have to be used, particularly in the high altitudes and low temperatures of northern Kashmir. Experts suggest that the American planes are technologically ten years behind the European ones, and it doesn’t help that Pakistan, India’s likely adversary if the aircraft were ever pressed into combat, has long been a regular US client for warplanes.

Moreover, Indian decision-makers could not help but be aware that the US has not, over the years, proved to be a reliable supplier of military hardware to India or other countries. It has frequently cut off contracted supplies, imposed sanctions on friends and foes alike (including India), and reneged on delivering military goods and spare parts, in addition to being notoriously unwilling to transfer its best military technologies.

The current Indian fleet of mainly Russian and French planes has suffered from no such problems, and the existing ground-support and maintenance infrastructure would have needed major changes to handle US aircraft. (It is likely that the eventual winner of the bid will be required to enter into a joint-production arrangement with India, which US companies would not have done.)

As if all this were not enough to decide against America, the clincher might well have been the Indian government’s desire to avoid any further procurement controversy at a time when allegations of corruption beset it from all sides. A decision made on technical grounds, many felt, would be easier to defend than one based on political considerations.

Against this are the unambiguous advantages of pleasing a major new ally and developing a pattern of bilateral military cooperation in supply, training, and operations that has yet to evolve. At a time when US nuclear-reactor purchases – made possible by the historic deal negotiated by the Bush administration – have been held up by US insistence on exemptions from supplier liability in the event of an accident, some regard India’s spurning of US aircraft as a gratuitous rejection of an opportunity to demonstrate that friendship with India helps America, too.

Is India being its old prickly non-aligned self again? Is appeasement of India’s notoriously anti-American politicians more important to a beleaguered Indian government than winning over the US? Will India’s traditional obsession with preserving its strategic autonomy always limit its usefulness as a partner to the US?

Such questions are unfair. Surely, India-US relations transcend any single arms purchase. Why should the financial value of one deal be the barometer of a strategic partnership? It is simply narrow-minded to reduce US foreign policy towards India to the bottom lines of American defense salesmen.

Nor is there any military estrangement between the two countries. Even if this deal didn’t work out for the US, it remains a leading arms supplier to India, having won bids to provide ships, reconnaissance aircraft, and advanced transport planes. The Indian army, navy, and air force still conduct more exercises with US defense forces than with those of any other power.

And the strategic relationship is not one-way. The US, too, has a strong interest in Indian strategic autonomy, which would be buttressed by a wider range of external partnerships, including with the European states that will benefit from the aircraft tender. Though India is rightly allergic to being seen as a US-supported counterweight to a rising China, in practice it is avidly courted by Southeast Asian countries anxious to balance the Chinese, a development that suits American interests. Obama’s visit to India last November reinforced a perception that the two countries share an increasingly convergent worldview, common democratic values, and thriving trade. None of this will cease to be relevant if India buys a European fighter plane.

In fact, the potential for Indian-US collaboration in a variety of military and non-military areas could be enhanced by this decision. Turning the US down this time actually frees India’s hands to pursue other aspects of the partnership, immune from the charge that it is too responsive to American pressures. India has not foreclosed its options; it has enlarged them.

Shashi Tharoor, a former Indian Minister of State for External Affairs and UN Under-Secretary General, is a member of India’s parliament and the author of a dozen books, including India from Midnight to the Millennium and Nehru: the Invention of India.
 
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Its easier to start a DHAABA for spare parts than start a R&D unit to design better engine..
Cause Guess what Rafale needs a much better engine than it has..:lol:

Remember what UK done to our navy during sanctions... Better go with Rafale.. Need to see how Rafale will be able to deliver Anti Radiation Missile...

And thats why Indian Navy emphasis more on local development... even they say LCA Navy is not we want but they are happy that is ours... Indian Navy was exposed more to western compared to IAF and IA... so there are some lessons already learnt
 
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The Snecma M88 engine in the Dassault Rafale allows it to supercruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a 1000-liter belly tank and even in the naval version; it can supercruise up to Mach 1.4 while carrying six air-to-air missiles (MBDA MICA).

"Air defense mission for flotille F12." Fox Three, issue 8, pg. 8. Retrieved: 2011-03-30.
^ Desclaux, Jacques and Jacques Serre (2003). M88 – 2 E4: Advanced New Generation Engine for Rafale Multirole Fighter. AIAA/ICAS International Air and Space Symposium and Exposition: The Next 100 Years. 14–17 July 2003, Dayton, Ohio. AIAA 2003-2610.


Or try

Supercruise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
:chilli:

You dont have to convince me with Links Spark Saar..
We both have been here long enough to see others slog it out with various links..

Rafale is a very potent fighter and meets almost every demand of IAF..My reservation with this has always been non-technical...:cheers:
 
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Remember what UK done to our navy during sanctions... Better go with Rafale.. Need to see how Rafale will be able to deliver Anti Radiation Missile...

And thats why Indian Navy emphasis more on local development... even they say LCA Navy is not we want but they are happy that is ours... Indian Navy was exposed more to western compared to IAF and IA... so there are some lessons already learnt

IN has always inducted indigenous machines with open arms..
 
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Sancho we need to look at all angles...Our angle should be first and foremost but in the long term scheme of things was it a wise decision?

I think it was, because numerous of reasons:

1) We don't get too dependent on the US, that is still one of the main allies of Pakistan and not of India!

2) Our forces remain independent and can't be forced to negotiate with the laws and policies of foreign countries, that wants to control the arms and techs even after they sold it!

3) Our forces gets the best arms and techs and hopefully also the one that suits them the most. That improoves their capability and the security of our nation!

4) The Europeans offers the highst ammounts of ToT from important parts of the fighter like AESA radar for example. The US denied that and therefor our industry had not benefitted much from their offers. The Europeans also have an high involvement in form of JV, licence productions and now even co-developments of arms and techs, while the US even denied consultancy to make LCA carrier capable.
All this makes clear, that the Europeans are the way better choice when it comes to improvement of our industry!

5) During MMRCA we saw Germany not sealing a submarine deal with Pakistan, although according to media reports it was 95% done. We also saw France denying crucial weapons and avionics for JF 17 and both these examples shows, that we can influence the policies of these countries, be it with political infuence, or the better business deals. On the other side we saw the US keep selling Pakistan arms and techs and no matter what we say, or do we can't influence the US at all.
Also important in this regard, if we team up with the EF consortium, or Dassault it automatically blocks these fighters as well as the sale of their latest techs to Pakistan as well. While being a normal export customer of F18SH won't change anything.


It is good that the US changed their policies towards India and now comes closer to us and our interests, but that doesn't meant we have to ignore the decades were they supported mainly Pakistan and more importantly, we should understand that they are getting closer to us, because it is in their interest now!
India is a huge market for business and especially for their arms lobby we mean a lot of money. In a strategic mean, India is also the only Asian country, that could be a counterweight to China and it is important for the US to have such a country on their side. Not to mention the strategic location of India in regard of the sea lanes to the east!
So they want and need us for their own purposes, therefor we can play our cards and offer them a part of the market as well, but on our conditions!
Some transport, or surveillance aircrafts, a minor number of combat helicopters, no problem. A big part of the IAF frontline fleet, no thanks!


But back to the EF and Rafale!
 
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