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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

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Alliances of the Air by Shashi Tharoor - Project Syndicate

NEW DELHI – India’s recent
decision not to purchase
American warplanes for its $10
billion-plus fighter aircraft
program – the largest single
military tender in the country’s
history – has stirred debate in
defense circles worldwide. India’s
defense ministry deemed the two
American contenders, Boeing’s
F/A-18 Superhornet and
Lockheed’s F-16 Superviper, not
to fulfill the requirements that it
sought in a medium-size multi-
role combat aircraft. With the
Russian MiG-30 and the Swedish
Gripen also eliminated, two
European planes, the Eurofighter
Typhoon and the French Rafale,
are the only aircraft still in
contention for an expected
order of 126 planes.
India had never previously
purchased an American fighter
plane, and the United States
hoped that India would cement
the emerging bilateral strategic
partnership with a hefty check.
Indeed, US officials, including
President Barack Obama, had
lobbied for the deal, which
would have pumped money and
jobs into the ailing American
economy. The “deeply
disappointed” US ambassador to
India, Tim Roemer, promptly
announced his resignation. But,
in a typical comment, Indian-
American strategist Ashley Tellis
observed trenchantly that India
had chosen “to invest in a plane,
not a relationship.”
The notion that a major arms
purchase should be based on
broader strategic considerations
– the importance of the US in
India’s emerging Weltpolitik –
rather than on the merits of the
aircraft itself, strikes Indian
officials as unfair. Some deny
that the decision reflects any
political bias on the part of
India’s taciturn, left-leaning
defense minister, A. K. Antony.
The choice, they aver, is a purely
professional one, made by the
Indian Air Force, and only
ratified by the ministry.
The two European fighters are
generally seen as
aerodynamically superior, having
outperformed both US-made
aircraft in tests under the
adverse climatic conditions in
which they might have to be
used, particularly in the high
altitudes and low temperatures
of northern Kashmir. Experts
suggest that the American planes
are technologically ten years
behind the European ones, and
it doesn’t help that Pakistan,
India’s likely adversary if the
aircraft were ever pressed into
combat, has long been a regular
US client for warplanes.


Alliances of the Air by Shashi Tharoor - Project Syndicate
 
Are you out of your fricking mind ?

Comparing our NSG with the Seals ?

Ideally it should have been NSG with the SWAT and Para SF or MARCOS with SEALS and secondly it was NOT the Delta forces, it was the Navy SEALS. Educate yourself on the complexities in searching each and every room in a 700 room multi-storey hotel in the full glare of media with hostages before coming and blabbering here.



Stop making f-ing excuses....Guess what Seals is a special ops force...just like NSG is supposed to. Comparing it, yeah I know damn well we are not in that league...but you some stupid Indian posters who will claim otherwise and will give every f-ing excuse otherwise to prove why NSG is better......so let my post stick it to them where snubs them.....time for us to aim higher much higher. and in order to that we need to compare ourselves to the best and learn....Listen you are making f-ing excuses....NSG doe not train for such scenarios? Obviously I guess not. I guess their truing is BS. First of all there should have been a media black out....rule one broken and it shows we are incompetent...and don;t give me that democracy BS. There are laws in place to ensure that public safety is not compromised. We did not enforce . There was no perimeter set up. It looked like a circus. We did evacuate the surrounding buildings. Secondly the department of buildings should have a database for the detailed technical drawing of each and every building. Complete garbage. We did not even supply NSG with superior weapons and surveillance equipment. Yeah so as for the complexities I can understand how much harder it is to fight with shitty weapons and tech. Please educate yourself on the shortcomings...we are so myopic its not even funny. What this shows me it that we are evolving tactically and quite frankly the learning curve occurs after something tragic happens. even then it is not sufficient. We are not proactive only reactive.
 
The two European fighters are
generally seen as
aerodynamically superior, having
outperformed both US-made
aircraft in tests under the
adverse climatic conditions in
which they might have to be
used, particularly in the high
altitudes and low temperatures
of northern Kashmir.

Experts
suggest that the American planes
are technologically ten years
behind the European ones, and
it doesn’t help that Pakistan,
India’s likely adversary if the
aircraft were ever pressed into
combat, has long been a regular
US client for warplanes.
Thats correct.....I mean if they really wanted to win, they should have fielded F35 in the first place, why fielding the fighter which is about to be replaced...? I mean you don't wanna share tech, your fighter is not in the top 3 in performance and is technologically behind others then how you expect it to win and on losing you start pounding... :)
 
Thats correct.....I mean if they really wanted to win, they should have fielded F35 in the first place, why fielding the fighter which is about to be replaced...? I mean you don't wanna share tech, your fighter is not in the top 3 in performance and is technologically behind others then how you expect it to win and on losing you start pounding... :)



If we are looking at tech then Typhoon is the way to go all the way...they met every requirement except AESA which is being developed....
 
Nothing wrong in our selection process for MMRCA deal: IAF - Brahmand.com

After the US expressed “disappointment” over the ouster of its two companies from the multi-billion-dollar combat aircraft deal, the Indian Air Force has asserted that there is “nothing wrong” in its selection process.

“Whether anyone is happy or unhappy, we have done whatever we were asked to do by the Government...If you select one aircraft, it always happens that other side would be dissatisfied. There is nothing wrong with our process. It is a human feeling,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal P V Naik said here on Monday.

On the last date of the expiry of the commercial bids for the tender, the Defence Ministry had shortlisted the European Eurofighter and the French Dassault Rafale for the 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) deal.

Two American companies, including the Boeing and Lockheed Martin, were rejected by the IAF along with the Swedish Saab Gripen and the Russian MiG 35.

Asked if the rejected companies would be given reasons for disqualification, the IAF chief said, “Their debrief was done when the test got over. Everybody knows whether he is compliant or non compliant.”

US firm Boeing, whose F-18 aircraft did not make the cut in the shortlist, had expressed its “disappointment” and said it would seek a debrief from the IAF for its ouster from the tender.

On the future fleet of the IAF, Naik said it would comprise the Su-30s, MMRCAs and the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) along with the indigenous light combat aircraft (LCA) Tejas.

On issues about the anti-radiation missile in the deal, the IAF chief said, “These issues are not public issues. We have done our job and we have to decide about the L1 (lowest bidder).”

“We will sort out all issues as per the DPP (Defence Procurement Policy). Let the issue be sorted out and we will give you all the details,” he said without divulging any detail about the issue.

The issue, sources said, is over the sale of anti-radiation missiles, which are manufactured by an American firm and would require clearances by the US for sales to India.

Weapon systems are sold by the US through the Foreign Military Sales route and the countries acquiring such weapons require its permission for selling it to other sides.

The IAF tender mandates that the companies should offer a weapons package including anti-radiation missile while delivering the aircraft.
 
If we are looking at tech then Typhoon is the way to go all the way...they met every requirement except AESA which is being developed....


Rafale met everything including AESA... which one is better .. decide..
 
EFT AESA is much better than Rafale's. It supposed to have EA capabilities. Number of T/R modules also more than double.
 
Rafale is an excellent fighter and able to meet IAF requirements which F-18SH or Gripen-NG could not. But its future is not as good as EFT in long term.
 
Rafale met everything including AESA... which one is better .. decide..

EFT AESA is much better than Rafale's. It supposed to have EA capabilities. Number of T/R modules also more than double.

Yeah SPARK read the above post and you decide.....Rafale is dead weight..

Rafale is an excellent fighter and able to meet IAF requirements which F-18SH or Gripen-NG could not. But its future is not as good as EFT in long term.

And Let the fight begin...
 
And Let the fight begin...

I think I have posted less number of posts than any other Indians in this thread after 85 pages. I know for what I stand. So no need of fight or anything else. Above all I do not fight with Indians.
 
Stop making f-ing excuses....

Stop being a f*cktard and stop with this personal attacks.

Guess what Seals is a special ops force...just like NSG is supposed to.

Wrong - The equivalent of SEALS is our MARCOS and not NSG. The equivalent of NSG is SWAT.

Comparing it, yeah I know damn well we are not in that league...

A retard with IQ 40 would know a specialized POLICE force and an Elite Navy SF unit will NOT be in the same league.

but you some stupid Indian posters who will claim otherwise and will give every f-ing excuse otherwise to prove why NSG is better....

No one is claiming NSG is better than SEALS. It is you who is saying NSG is inferior because they did not perform well in mumbai. Well what is criteria for excellent perfomance, wise one ?

..so let my post stick it to them where snubs them.....

It affects no one except making you look foolish by comparing a specialised Police force and and Elite Navy SF unit with two very different mission profiles.

time for us to aim higher much higher. and in order to that we need to compare ourselves to the best and learn....
Only sensible thing you have spoken.

Listen you are making f-ing excuses....
I dont give a shyt as to what you think - the end result you dont know what you are speaking.

NSG doe not train for such scenarios? Obviously I guess not.
Even if they train they cant miraculously sweep clean about 700 rooms in multiple storeys with fire raging in any less time with suicde minded terrorists on the loose.

I guess their truing is BS. First of all there should have been a media black out....rule one broken and it shows we are incompetent...and don;t give me that democracy BS.

Not a fault of the NSG. Blame the Govt for all you want.

There are laws in place to ensure that public safety is not compromised. We did not enforce . There was no perimeter set up. It looked like a circus.

Patently wrong - I was in Mumbai and I know that a 100 m perimeter was set up. Stop blabbering.

We did evacuate the surrounding buildings. Secondly the department of buildings should have a database for the detailed technical drawing of each and every building. Complete garbage.

The hotel plans of the TAJ were given to the NSG.

We did not even supply NSG with superior weapons and surveillance equipment. Yeah so as for the complexities I can understand how much harder it is to fight with shitty weapons and tech. Please educate yourself on the shortcomings...

Blame the bureaucracy for that and stop blaming the NSG. They acquitted themselves very well with the little equipment they had.

You are just confusing the Bureaucratic hassles with the incompetence of the NSG commandos themselves are you cannot be more wrong.
 
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