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India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

Who is now the Favorite?


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EFT seems 50% more costly than Rafale! but I think IAF more interested in EFT so they called for extended price negotiation. They actually want EFT to bring the price down.

I dont think they will further reduce it.. All the partners are interested in F-35 and further funding will depend on Indian money where as France will be going only for Rafale in future too. So I dont think IAF has any special interest in EFT.
 
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These are some important issues. Beside precision strike, standoff weapons and AESA they should give equal importance to EW as well.

To be honest, the air marshal pretty much discribes the criterias I found to be important from the start, but with them the EF normally can't be shortlisted!

- it can only use LGB and so far even only a single type (1000lb)
- not a single A2G missiles was integrated, or is under integration now, recent news even said, that RAF don't want to integrate Brimstone, while it is an option for Rafale now
- the use of heavy weapons on EF is restricted by the fact that it has only 3 stations, that are also planed for fuel tanks
- official British analyses said, that the EF will be fully A2G capable only by 2018
- the AESA development is still not funded and already is likely to be delayed. Even if they get it done till 2015, it will be less mature and offer also less modes than the RBE 2 (even the Captor M today is said to have no air to sea modes, because the customers don't use the EF in these kind of role, but according to several sources maritime attack is important for India)

Although I like the EF more than the F18SH, these requirements would have prefered the latter, that's why I am surprised by the shortlisting.
 
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I don't think this has been posted ;)


A.K.Antony gains sainthood
Whether the sudden exit of US Ambassador Timothy Roemer from his assignment in Delhi and the government’’s decision to reject the two American bids for the MMRCA [Multi-role combat aircraft] tender are related developments is a moot point.

Indeed, MMRCA was a lucrative contract which is worth 10 billion dollars at face value but worth manifold billions of dollars in the downstream through the coming 2 or 3 decades by way of additional supplies, spare parts, servicing, etc. More than the money, the Obama administration pitched hard as the business could generate dozens of thousands of jobs in the US. In strategic terms, MMRCA relates to the weapon system that IAF will use for next few decades and constituted a window of opportunity to gain a veritable American toe-hold in the Indian armed forces. Unsurprisingly, US saw this contract as a great window of opening to surge the military cooperation with India. Thus, a robust US campaign was afoot and Obama himself pitched in by writing to the prime minister. Senior state department officials routinely began singing panygerics - almost on weekly basis - lavishing praise on India as the rising star on the planet and as the cynosure of all good things to happen to mankind. Roemer himself openly reminded the Indian leadership last month that securing the MMRCA would do a world of good to US-India global strategic partnership (read containment of China).

Frankly, the Americans themselves are to be blamed for building up this sort of completely unwarranted hype, which makes on feel red on the face with embarrassment. MMRCA is a bloody serious affair for the Indians and the IAF and Delhi cannot go emotional about it when arriving at a decicision. But then, it is a characteristic feature of US (and Israeli) public diplomacy to keep puffing up hot air balloons and foisting then above the playground and make the spectators feel they are the real thing. Whereas, any close observer of the Indian policies - unless one were hopelessly marooned at the extreme wing of the ideological left or the ideologically vacuous Indian right - that at the end of the day, Delhi would assess its needs with clinical detachment.

Things can’t be otherwise so long as A K Antony holds the portfolio of Raksha Mantri. No matter what you may say about the ‘Mallu mafia’ in Delhi, at the end of the day, you need to admit this much that their finger nails have remained clean after all their dealings with public property. And, mind you, these are testy times when you trust just about no one in the dark. To put MMRCA matters in perspective, Antony’s refusal to be entrapped into making political commitments that he couldn’t possibly fulfil prompted him to have the US-India strategic dialogue scheduled originally for mid-April to be scuttled although Hillary Clinton and Robert Gates were all set to travel to Delhi. We all knew at that time that something was brewing in Antony’s mind although he is a taciturn man by nature. In fact, that was the first indication that Antony’s mind was working hard about judging which MMRCA offer - American, European, French, Russian, etc. - might suit India’s defence needs optimally in the long-term, and the choice might just not necessarily fall on the two high-profile American bids out of mere political compulsions.

Equally, some nasty comments by a clutch of notoriously pro-American Delhi-based commentators at around that same time gave the plot away and made one suspect that the US embassy in Delhi might be working overtime about Antony’s ‘obduracy’. Nonetheless, the proof lay in the eating of the pudding, as they say, and one kept one’s fingers crossed.

Objectively speaking, however, the Americans have been vastly exaggerating the dimensions of the so-called US-India ‘golabl’ strategic partnership - US’s ‘indispensable’ partnership of the 21st century, et al - in an attempt to hustle the Indian opinion, which is usually ill-informed, excitable and highly prone to sentimentality and moodiness. This has been a classic situation where the other guy insists on saying to whoever is listening that you are his best pal in town and this is the only game in town and you are hard-pressed to deny that is not quite the case as is being made out and that he is only one among other guys you’d like to along with in real life.

The danger lies in upping the threshold of hype in any relationship. When a reality check ensues, you slide into depression. Last week, a former Indian ambassador to the US claimed that it would be a ‘breach of faith’ if India didn’t facilitate nuclear business for the US. Really? He spoke as if he never heard of Fukoshima. What if Antony came to a sober conclusion that IAF needs something far better than what is on offer from the Americans? Will that, too, become a matter of ‘breach of faith’? Whose ‘faith’ are we talking about anyway? The country’s - or some moonlighting individual’s? The problem is that too many vested interests have today developed over the gravy train of US-India partnership. And these fat cats are contributing to an unnatural build-up of expectations and are arrogating the right to set the tempo of the US-India ties that are so crucial to the country’s long-term interests.

The Indian policies in the recent months ample bear out that US-India partnership is not the be-all and end-all of Delhi’s world view. The patient efforts to build content into ties with Iran (which is never an easy thing to deal with), the nuanced stance on Libya, the constructive engagement of China’s Hu Jintao by the prime minister on the sidelines of the BRICS, the far-reaching India-Kazakh strategic ties, the commendable Mohali overture to Pakistan, Delhi’s stubborn refusal to be drawn into the US-Pakistan tensions or to fall into the American trap of transfroming Afghanistan into an India-Pakistan turf war, an independent line on Sri Lanka keeping the specific Indian priorities in view - all these are to be noted carefully.
Why, can’t Washington but notice that Delhi is not even doing any drum beating that an American-Tibetan is bringing the torch of democracy to Dharamsala from across the Atlantic!

A.K.Antony gains sainthood - Indian Punchline
 
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No matter what you may say about the ‘Mallu mafia’ in Delhi, at the end of the day, you need to admit this much that their finger nails have remained clean after all their dealings with public property. And, mind you, these are testy times when you trust just about no one in the dark.

Who the hell wrote this... :D
 
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Can u explain further the price part.

Will it have effect on further upgrades ?

What is the status of upgrades and possible additions and the percentage of near to completion level of both?

I didn't see the report (waiting that NDTV uploads it), so I can't say what figures these are. Fly away (only for fighter and engines), or system prices (including weapons, spares and training).
 
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Who the hell wrote this... :D

It's by M K Bhadrakumar. You might remember his articles from the Asia Times

Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
 
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Boeing's Statement On F/A-18 Elimination From MMRCA

"Boeing today was notified that our Super Hornet proposal for India’s MMRCA competition was not short listed in the initial down select. We are obviously disappointed with this outcome. Our next step is to request and receive a debrief from the Indian Air Force. Once we have reviewed the details, we will make a decision concerning our possible options, always keeping in mind the impact to the Indian Air Force. We believe we offered the Indian Air Force a fully compliant and best-value multi-role aircraft for the defined mission. We will continue to look for opportunities to help India modernize its armed services and enhance its aerospace industry. "

Livefist: Boeing's Statement On F/A-18 Elimination From MMRCA


P.S. Here is the NDTV video:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-special-ndtv-24x7/dog-fight-for-india/197978
 
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eurofighter all the way coming mark my words u like it or not it is inevitable so learn to like it
 
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The Rafale packs a deadly punch both in Air to Air Operations as well as Air-to-Surface PGM Delivery.some of the most important weapons to be carried by the Rafale are the AIM-132 ASRAAM which has a range of 300m-to-18km.It has an advanced seeker seeker consisting of a Focal Planar Array (128 x 128) resolution Imaging Infrared allowing high resistance to ECM and even target engagement capability at maximum 90degree bore-sight angles.along with the Topsight-E HMS it can outperform any fighter in WVR Combat. The MBDA Meteor BVRAAM which has an advanced Throttalable Ducted Rocket (ramjet) propulsion gives it thrust till its max. Range.the missile features Multi shot capability and Multi target Identification capability.it can also attack Cruise Missiles.For Standoff PGM role the Rafale uses Damocles pod to deliver Paveway III LGB.it also uses Storm shadow PGM and exocet antiship missile.truely a deadly fighter
 
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Sancho

@9:00.. the guy talks about getting equity of grippen.. I was advocating it for some time here in the forum... TaTA's should have done that long time back..
 
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So it was indeed the hornet, which the upgraded engines offer debate , we were talking about.

Seems like that, but the performance issues NDTV talks about, could also be the engine problems of the Super Hornet at Leh.

Sancho

@9:00.. the guy talks about getting equity of grippen.. I was advocating it for some time here in the forum... TaTA's should have done that long time back..

Yes I noticed it too and as I said before, I would loved to see Saab as a partner of HAL for LCA/Gripen. We had the chance in the past (1980s), but missed it sadly, would have been a win win situation for both countries. But I also disagree with his example of Tata and cars, because Tata has a long history of JV with Mercedes for example, be it for cars, or trucks, so they benefitted a lot from indigenous developments WITH western techs and know how and that seems to be the important part in MMRCA again. Wished we would have done it with LCA the same way!
 
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LOL .. the naval admiral is critical on the 5 nation conglomerate , and he is rightly so. :lol:
 
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