India selects EF, Rafale for MMRCA shortlist

[sancho]

Raptors, Silent Eagles, Strike Eagles for US

Su35 BM, PAKFA -Russia

UK -Typhoon

J-20,J-11 - China.

And aside from the advantages Kinetic mentioned - you have more survivability. One engine damaged in a MKI means you can RTB on another, in the case of Falcon - you cannot. The fighter is lost.

You could add Su 34 and Mig 29Ks for Russia and J15 for China as well

 

[IndianTiger]

HAL is not in the same business as DRDO. They are different agencies, different work, cannot be compared.

HAL does manufacturing primarily, and they've done a pretty good job in that (manufacturing)

you are telling to those who dnt have skills but having big mouth, btw nice answer..

 

[Jon Snow]

WTF are you getting this from? Yes this problem plagued Russian a/c in IAF service but that was because at the time USSR was India's only option. Now the world (and winning bidder) is aware that India will take nothing but the best and if that doesn't happen I'm sure there will be safeguards in the contracts accordingly. Anyway if EFT wins they have already said that they will set up a full production line in India and so spares shouldn't be a proboblem as they will be made in India by Indians for Indain Air Force.

MKI production is also done by HAL but apparently we cant even prduce tyres for it by ourselves.......

 

[SpArK]

MKI production is also done by HAL but apparently we cant even prduce tyres for it by ourselves.......

A clause in Sukhoi contract makes it mandatory for India to source spares, including tyres, only from Russian firms






www.outlookindia.com |

 

[koushik]

Well, if true, that's completely pointless, HAL should start producing simultaneously as original manufacture tonspeed up induction in larger numbers. and 2017-8 for ENTIRE induction of ALL MMRCA? I think that's a long shot and unlikely.


Has there been any news on the NUMBER IAF will induct? There have been wild estimates (126-260!) if MMRCA goes to 260 and EFT is the winner then that could be $20 BILLION!!! Any idea??

It is needless to purchase 260 aircrafts for he mmrca deal coz it would take time till may be 2024 to the total production of these aircrafts.why manufacture 4.5 gen aircraft when there other 5th gen waiting for induction like fgfa and amca.so i think the tender will be capped at 126 aircrafts and maximum 200 aircrafts.

 

[KS]

You could add Su 34 and Mig 29Ks for Russia and J15 for China as well

Thanks yaar.

Also the IAF doctrine calls for two pilots because ours is an offensive airforce atleast in the Western Sector and two pilots are required for conducting deep strikes without the worry of fatigue factor and also the pilot can fly without the worry of Target slection,firing which will be left to the Wizzo.

 

[Ammyy]

It is needless to purchase 260 aircrafts for he mmrca deal coz it would take time till may be 2024 to the total production of these aircrafts.why manufacture 4.5 gen aircraft when there other 5th gen waiting for induction like fgfa and amca.so i think the tender will be capped at 126 aircrafts and maximum 200 aircrafts.

I think 126 are enough
Its better to upgrade our MKI to 4.5 gen cause after 2022-24 we have two 5th gen fighters so inducting more 4.5 gen is not a good idea

 

[Jon Snow]

A clause in Sukhoi contract makes it mandatory for India to source spares, including tyres, only from Russian firms






www.outlookindia.com |

Thnx......guess thats an example of russian arm twisting we keep hearing so much about
Why did we agree to such a clause even when we had previous experience in russian spares??

 

[SpArK]

Thnx......guess thats an example of russian arm twisting we keep hearing so much about
Why did we agree to such a clause even when we had previous experience in russian spares??

Well we had problems with many.. we had problems with every non russian vendors too.. have to deal with it..

Some times MoD acts childish... take the case of transport aircraft (c-17).. we bought it for some money and later asked why aussies were sold for a cheaper rate.

I mean its like going to a shop buying a bottle of pepsi for 50 bucks and coming back and saying , oh wait you gave the same, to the other guy for 15 bucks explain that...... sounds childish..

 

[sancho]

Thanks yaar.

Also the IAF doctrine calls for two pilots because ours is an offensive airforce atleast in the Western Sector and two pilots are required for conducting deep strikes without the worry of fatigue factor and also the pilot can fly without the worry of Target slection,firing which will be left to the Wizzo.

Actually, I don't think MMRCAs will be twin seat versions, at least not the majority. IAF prefers the twin seat only for air superiority fighters, for long range and high endurrance missions, or for the dedicated strike fighters (apart from trainers of course). But the Mig 21, 29, or Mirage 2000s squads consist of the same 18 fighters MMRCA is about to get and they are divided into 16 single seat and 2 twin seat fighters.
Also the EF uses the twin seat mainly as a trainer, for the operational service on the other hand they choose the single seat. This is one of the fighters used for the strike in Libya:

Rafale on the other hand has both versions in operational service for all roles, only the carrier varient is limited to single seat (a twin seat was developed, but cancelled for cost reasons):

 

[sancho]

Got this from BR:

live update from Vishnu's pgm which quotes MOD 'sources'

- Mig35 - did poorly in trials
- Gripen - radar underdeveloped. plane itself underdeveloped
- F18 - performance concerns , after sales service concerns
- F16 - future development limited, intrusive US laws

price shown in EF - rafale comparison slide was Euro 90 mil vs Euro 63 mil

retd air marshal of WAC says precision strike capabilities , standoff weapons and AESA radar are most important criteria and whatever we get has to be modular and upgradeable enough to last us 40 yrs and effectively replace retiring older a/c in IAF.

 

[Kinetic]

Got this from BR:

These are some important issues. Beside precision strike, standoff weapons and AESA they should give equal importance to EW as well.

 

[SpArK]

Got this from BR:

Can u explain further the price part.

Will it have effect on further upgrades ?

What is the status of upgrades and possible additions and the percentage of near to completion level of both?

 

[IndianTiger]

Good News..
Bad for P&C.

 

[Kinetic]

Can u explain further the price part.

Will it have effect on further upgrades ?

What is the status of upgrades and possible additions and the percentage of near to completion level of both?

EFT seems 50% more costly than Rafale! but I think IAF more interested in EFT so they called for extended price negotiation. They actually want EFT to bring the price down.