India’s Super Sukhoi Vs China’s Su-35: Who has the better Aircraft?

[he-man]

BC, SU 35 is only super Sukhoi. Both airframes are SAME! Prasun K Sengupta has given a well written article. In terms of aviation and avionics they are usually spot on!

TRISHUL: Super Su-30MKI: From Air Dominance To Air Supremacy

Tension mat lo. Our govt is an @$$hole, armed forces planning is not!

and pls do tell whats bullshit in rafale vs su-35 points i made??

 

[sms]

Aesa is multi purpose mission radar ... Situation Awareness , Conectivity beyoud that single platform . Its has nothing to do with RANGE . Aesa radar range increased by increasing the Size of AESA ... too . There are many advantages

Really?
Never heard about that.. will you elaborate more on highlighted part?

 

[he-man]

Really?
Never heard about that.. will you elaborate more on highlighted part?

i think he is right...............both pesa and aesa use trm

1)In pesa power is distributed among trm from a common source

2)In aesa each trm has its independent power supply

So in terms of range there is no advantage till the no of trm remain same in pesa and aesa

But we can add more number of trm in aesa easily and increase the range(actually more easy said than done)

But the main advantage of aesa is that it can

1)operate under lpi mode(low probability of intercept)

2)we can switch off some of the trm to reduce power when we want

3)The trm modules used keep om changing frequencies at a fast rate so its almost impossible to jam the radar

4)In pesa there is a single strong beam that dosen't change frequencies(or at rate way lower than aesa) but in aesa diff trm with diff frequencies can form diff beams and it helps in faster scanning



i may be wrong as i am no professional but its more or less true

 

[IND151]

It is hard to tell which will be superior.

The Su-35 has more powerful engines(14,500kg thrust) and may get AESA.

But Super Sukhoi will get engine with 15,000 KG thrust and life of 6,000 hours along with powerful AESA.

Plus it may get several french and Israeli avionics, just like MKI did.

The Super MKI will most probably see more use of composites in Airframe.

The Su-35 too may get several upgrades.

So till both materialize, its hard to tell which plane is better.

Don't worry SU 35 will be the Super Sukhoi only. Except with a blend of Israeli and Indian avionics. We have the biggest airframe in the series, upgrade should be no problem at all. This was factored in during design stage. Check my article above.

Do we.................?

 

[he-man]

It is hard to tell which will be superior.

The Su-35 has more powerful engines(14,500kg thrust) and may get AESA.

But Super Sukhoi will get engine with 15,000 KG thrust and life of 6,000 hours along with powerful AESA.

Plus it may get several french and Israeli avionics, just like MKI did.

The Super MKI will most probably see more use of composites in Airframe.

The Su-35 too may get several upgrades.

So till both materialize, its hard to tell which plane is better.



Do we.................?

as already told there is no such engine!!!

the best they got after pakfa engine is this

NPO "SATURN" > 117S

 

[sms]

i think he is right...............both pesa and aesa use trm

1)In pesa power is distributed among trm from a common source

2)In aesa each trm has its independent power supply

So in terms of range there is no advantage till the no of trm remain same in pesa and aesa

But we can add more number of trm in aesa easily and increase the range(actually more easy said than done)

Radar range depends on many things including radar transmit power, frequency, antenna gain, target radar cross section, minimum detectable signal, operating temperature, signal attenuation in medium of signal propagation ..

If we assume, frequency, RCS of target, temperature, attenuation of signal in air, antenna gain and all other parameters constant ..the only thing left on hand is transmitting power of RF source. So more the power we can deliver from single RF transmitter better range we’ll get.

So it implies that increasing PESA antenna size or ASEA plate size (more modules) will not increase the range but we must be able to deliver more RF power to transmit. The increased power delivery creates increased issues related to thermal management (not limiting) adding higher risk of failure or making system bulky and rendering it useless for application.

 

[he-man]

Radar range depends on many things including radar transmit power, frequency, antenna gain, target radar cross section, minimum detectable signal, operating temperature, signal attenuation in medium of signal propagation ..

If we assume, frequency, RCS of target temperature, attenuation of signal in air, antenna gain and all other parameters constant ..the only thing left on hand is transmitting power of RF source. So more the power we can deliver from single RF transmitter better range we’ll get.

So it implies that increasing PESA antenna size or ASEA plate size (more modules) will not increase the range but we must be able to deliver more RF power to transmit. The increased power delivery creates increased issues related to thermal management (not limiting) adding higher risk of failure or making system bulky and rendering it useless for application.

i was taking assumption that

1)the back power source is same in the above described aesa and pesa

2)number of trm are same

Btw right now the radar with max range in n aircraft is irbis-e of su-35 and its a pesa

 

[sms]

i was taking assumption that

1)the back power source is same in the above described aesa and pesa

2)number of trm are same

Btw right now the radar with max range in n aircraft is irbis-e of su-35 and its a pesa

Bro, radar range is directly proposnal to ability and amount of power delivered by individual TRM and lot of other factors.

 

[he-man]

Bro, radar range is directly proposnal to ability and amount of power delivered by individual TRM and lot of other factors.

i know that and for clarity sake i put the specs same on an aesa and pesa.............in terms of power and no of trm

 

[conworldus]

Stupid thread. China does NOT have Su-35s. We haven't even signed a contract to buy them.

 

[he-man]

Stupid thread. China does NOT have Su-35s. We haven't even signed a contract to buy them.

then what makes u comment on a stupid thread o wise man

 

[Black Eagle 90]

Following Russia’s announcement of potential Su-35 sale to China, Defenseworld.net compares India’s Super Sukhois with the expected Chinese Su-35.The Super Sukhoi, which India plans to procure, has a fly by wire (FBW) with quadruple redundancy while displays include a highly customized version of the Israeli Elbit Su 967 head-up display along with bi-cubic phase conjugated holographic displays and seven liquid crystal multifunction displays.

The Super Sukhoi also includes a forward-facing NIIP N011M Bars (Panther); a powerful integrated passive electronically scanned array radar that can function in air-to-air and air-to-land/sea mode simultaneously while being tied into a high-precision laser-inertial or GPS navigation system.

It is equipped with a modern digital weapons control system as well as anti-jamming features. N011M has a 400 km search range and a maximum 200km tracking range, and 60km in the rear hemisphere. The radar can track 15 air targets and engage 4 simultaneously. These targets can even include cruise missiles and motionless helicopters, according to the company website.

Its satellite navigation system that allows it to make flights in all weather, day and night conditions.



The aircraft is fitted with Israeli-made LITENING targeting pod that is used to target laser guided munitions. Litening incorporates in a single pod all the targeting features required by a modern strike fighter.

The IAF currently has five operational Sukhoi 30MKI squadrons numbering around 100 aircraft. It will ultimately have over 230 Sukhoi-30MKIs or 13 squadrons in its fleet.

The fleet is under licenced production at the Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and the entire fleet will be upgraded to the ‘Super Sukhoi’ configuration.

Meanwhile, China first expressed interest in procuring the upgraded Su-35 in 2006 but the deal reportedly fell through.The Su-35, aerodynamically similar to the Su-27, has a new and improved airframe that will “dramatically increase its service life to 6,000 hours, 30 years of operation,” according to the Sukhoi Company.And unlike the Su-30MKI it will not feature canard fins.

All the three channels will have electrically signaled control without mechanical cabling. The use of a new integrated control system (developed by MNPK Avionika Moscow-based Research and Production Association) simultaneously performing functions of several systems – remote control, automatic control, limiting signals system, air signals system, chassis wheels braking system – will enhance the fighter’s handling capability and maneuverability, the website explains.



The aircraft’s chassis has been reinforced to increase the takeoff and landing weight of the aircraft and bears two wheels in addition for the same purpose. Its improved radar stealth reduces the reflectance of the Su-35 in the X radio waveband and in the angle range of 60 degrees.



The engines are the upgraded AL-31F production engines employing fifth-generation technologies. They use a new fan, new high and low pressure turbines, and a new digital control system. The modernization has increased the engine special mode thrust by 16%, up to 14,500 kgf.

The aircraft features include a suite of new on-board equipments including the information management system (IMS), which integrates functional, logical, informational and software subsystems into a single complex that ensures the interaction between the crew and equipment. The IMS includes two central digital computers, commutation and information devices and an indication system built on the “all-glass cockpit” concept.



Irbis-E radar control system detects and tracks up to 30 air targets, retaining continuity of space observation and engaging up to eight targets. The system detects, chooses and tracks up to four ground targets in several map-making modes with various resolution at a range of up to 400 km, without stopping to monitor the airspace.



China has reportedly signed a deal to procure 24 Su-35s but neither has officially confirmed the purchase.

Does China has Su-35s and how many of them???

 

[klub]

and pls do tell whats bullshit in rafale vs su-35 points i made??

Why are you harping on about su 35 this that. Saalo akhir me hame hi ye prasad super sukhoi ke naam par mil raha hain.

Does China has Su-35s and how many of them???

none, all "under discussions".

 

[klub]

they are not

1)su-35 has a better integrated system like f-22 and rafale

2)Uses higher thrust engines(142 kn vs 123 kn)

3)better avionics................irbis-e vs bars-m

i am comparing su-30 with su-35

nothing called su-30 mki exists and no one knows the specs

1)The post talks about so called aesa for super sukhoi!!
We haven't seen even fully developed pakfa aesa which is in testing for past 2 years and u are betting on an aesa whose prototype hasen't yet been made??

2)It talks of nothing about airframe

3)The best russian engine after pakfa engine is item 117s of su-35 and it has service life of 4000 hours instead of 6000 hrs as article says..................and russians are not going to develop a new engine for super sukhoi
NPO "SATURN" > 117S

pls check the link

4)The rest maybe true................cannot comment yet


to quote sengupta

"Also to be noted is that the IAF has gone for the distributed AESA-array configuration (for the mini-AEW & C role) primarily as a back-up capability just in case the DRDO/CABS is unable to deliver the indigenous AEW & CS on time. In addition, have an embedded mini-AEW & C capability within a strike package oriented towards offensive air campaigns has some unique advantages aimed at neutralising the force-multiplier capabilities offered by hostile AEW & C platforms. This is an entirely standalone issue that I will dwell upon in future."

This is utter bullshit as drdo awacs are already in testing as we speak with an s-band aesa


lastly this article is dated

Saturday, May 14, 2011

we haven't even signed the contract yet and he is giving details 2 -3 years prior to that,,,i will take that with a pinch of salt

The article mentions clearly man.

 

[he-man]

The article mentions clearly man.

as already stated by me

1)he is talking about an engine that dosen't exist

2)a radar that dosen't exist

3)says that mki with its radar will behave like an awacs!!!

and to call it objective article will be a big mistake,,,looks like a wishful stuff to me


Lastly if these things are available then

why don't we make the next sukhois directly as super sukhoi's(we have only 180,planned are 272)???