India’s nuclear submarine to trigger arms race: Pak Navy

[SBD-3]

So only 2 major benefits with Nuke submarine comes up in my mind.

1) Nuke sub uses nuclear power generation system. That can help it to stay under water 30+ years.
2) It can sneak beneath a country's water where its almost impossible to detect it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess u have urself mentioned one of the most important aspect of any vessel or warship !! ability to sneak.

ok lets take an example do you know which is the stealthiest Sub on earth?
its not nuke
its a diesel sub held by Germans developed from U-214 what world knows as U-212
it can fire SLCMs,Torpedoes and can even launch marines from its tubes for stealth special missions
Must get U-214 if we can make it a magnetic it can be better than Nuke a real "silent death" and since SSGNs can carry 6 times more Cruise missiles than SSBNs (US SSBNs can carry 24 tridents vs SSGNs carrying staggering 154 Cruise missiles) it can be launch a barrage of CMs against a limited launches of Ballistic missles
MUST get 214 ToT

 

[MZUBAIR]

So only 2 major benefits with Nuke submarine comes up in my mind.

1) Nuke sub uses nuclear power generation system. That can help it to stay under water 30+ years.
2) It can sneak beneath a country's water where its almost impossible to detect it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I guess u have urself mentioned one of the most important aspect of any vessel or warship !! ability to sneak.

Yes, I know, I did, So ?..................If u have any additional info plz share it.

 

[MZUBAIR]

ok lets take an example do you know which is the stealthiest Sub on earth?
its not nuke
its a diesel sub held by Germans developed from U-214 what world knows as U-212
it can fire SLCMs,Torpedoes and can even launch marines from its tubes for stealth special missions
Must get U-214 if we can make it a magnetic it can be better than Nuke a real "silent death" and since SSGNs can carry 6 times more Cruise missiles than SSBNs (US SSBNs can carry 24 tridents vs SSGNs carrying staggering 154 Cruise missiles) it can be launch a barrage of CMs against a limited launches of Ballistic missles
MUST get 214 ToT

But from very credible source, I came to know that Pakistan Government has descided to procure submarines from France instead of Germany.

What could be the reason.............but thats 100% correct news.
Besides that France upgrade Agosta90B and Agosta 70.

So, we are not getting any stealth or any nuke submarine.

I think Mr 10% is interfering.
But I am also sad that Pakistan Navy is silent.

 

[SBD-3]

But from very credible source, I came to know that Pakistan Government has descided to procure submarines from France instead of Germany.

What could be the reason.............but thats 100% correct news.
Besides that France upgrade Agosta90B and Agosta 70.

So, we are not getting any stealth or any nuke submarine.

I think Mr 10% is interfering.
But I am also sad that Pakistan Navy is silent.

Trust me PN wont just wait and watch

 

[Mercenary]

The danger to Pakistan from Indian Nuclear Submarines is not that they can sink our Submarines or block our ports but that it is a 2nd Strike Nuclear Weapon.

These submarines gives Indians a platform to launch nuclear weapons on Pakistan from the Sea, which makes this a 2nd strike weapon by India once their land based nuclear weapons are taken out by a Pakistani Nuclear Strike.

We will have no counter to stop these Nukes from hitting our forces.

They are many in India who want to turn Pakistan into a Nuclear Wasteland.

This Nuclear Submarine is one step closer to reality for them.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The danger to Pakistan from Indian Nuclear Submarines is not that they can sink our Submarines or block our ports but that it is a 2nd Strike Nuclear Weapon.

These submarines gives Indians a platform to launch nuclear weapons on Pakistan from the Sea, which makes this a 2nd strike weapon by India once their land based nuclear weapons are taken out by a Pakistani Nuclear Strike.

We will have no counter to stop these Nukes from hitting our forces.

They are many in India who want to turn Pakistan into a Nuclear Wasteland.

This Nuclear Submarine is one step closer to reality for them.

Sir, Indian Land & Air assets are more then enough to make pakistan a nuclear wasteland, but making us a nuclear wasteland won't help them either as we can do the same to some extent, plus the radiation fallout from a nuclear attack can harm them also, just see how the Chernobyl disaster effected many other countries including europe.

American Submarines & ASW had been training with a Diesel Submarine of Swedish Navy (i think) & other navies too, to counter the diesel electric type submarines as in recent american navy analysis these type of submarines can give them problem. And remember the popping up of a chinese submarine in the vicinity of an american carrier battle group.

The only major advantage of nuclear submarine of India is the life cycle of the nuclear fuel. Stealth i doubt it until its of American nuclear attack submarine class, the LA or Sea Wolf class. As nuclear submarine has to keep running all the time to feed the nuclear reactor, while a diesel electric submarine can just shut down and become stealth or run on AIP at slow speeds making it nearly impossible to detect.

US Navy Leasing Swedish Gotland-Class Submarine

TRAINING ON HDW SUBMARINES: An Opportunity For Boosting Indo Us Naval Cooperation

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/usw_summer_08/desi.html

Article: Diesel submarines becoming a main irritant to U.S. Navy.(diesel-electric... | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

 

[Righteous_Fire]

Sir, Indian Land & Air assets are more then enough to make pakistan a nuclear wasteland, but making us a nuclear wasteland won't help them either as we can do the same to some extent, plus the radiation fallout from a nuclear attack can harm them also, just see how the Chernobyl disaster effected many other countries including europe.

American Submarines & ASW had been training with a Diesel Submarine of Swedish Navy (i think) & other navies too, to counter the diesel electric type submarines as in recent american navy analysis these type of submarines can give them problem. And remember the popping up of a chinese submarine in the vicinity of an american carrier battle group.

The only major advantage of nuclear submarine of India is the life cycle of the nuclear fuel. Stealth i doubt it until its of American nuclear attack submarine class, the LA or Sea Wolf class. As nuclear submarine has to keep running all the time to feed the nuclear reactor, while a diesel electric submarine can just shut down and become stealth or run on AIP at slow speeds making it nearly impossible to detect.

US Navy Leasing Swedish Gotland-Class Submarine

TRAINING ON HDW SUBMARINES: An Opportunity For Boosting Indo Us Naval Cooperation

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/usw_summer_08/desi.html

Article: Diesel submarines becoming a main irritant to U.S. Navy.(diesel-electric... | AccessMyLibrary - Promoting library advocacy

I am really intrigued by the one where it says the US Navy is highly irritated by Diesel Electric Subs of the enemy! How? they arent silent and they can be easily tracked, targeted and destroyed

 

[TaimiKhan]

I am really intrigued by the one where it says the US Navy is highly irritated by Diesel Electric Subs of the enemy! How? they arent silent and they can be easily tracked, targeted and destroyed

Well sir why don't u try to find out why are the irritated by it.

Just check out the specification of a nuclear submarine and diesel electric submarine. Plus the main armament due to which diesel electric submarines can become less prone to being detected is their AIP system, meaning the diesel engine is off and the sub runs just on the batteries which give power. Ever seen car batteries, normal AAA size batteries and others giving out any noise ???? No. So that is why diesel subs become dangerous plus their size is small compared to a nuclear attack sub and as said above nuclear sub are to keep their machinery running all the time, as the reactor needs water for cooling purposes and the water pumps and its accessories are to keep working round the clock.

 

[MZUBAIR]

Trust me PN wont just wait and watch

I hope, atleast they shld stand up for U214

 

[Adios Amigo]

Why Pakistan went to Paris for submarine deal?
PML-Q Senator Sardar Mohammad Jamal Khan Leghari in a surprising revelation shocked the members of the Senate on July 30 by a claim that President Zardari had refused to approve the deal for purchase of German submarines and the file submitted to the Presidency recently had been rejected. He added that a team of Pakistani Naval officials had been receiving training on manning of sophisticated submarine in Germany for one and a half year.The Senator also claimed that the rejection of German submarine was aimed at paving the way for the purchase of French submarines and the one billion dollars were behind the latest defence deal with France.He elaborated that Pakistan already possessed the French submarine technology and needed diversified technology. He demanded that Pakistan Naval Chief should give an in-camera briefing to the legislators to clarify the position.The Senator’s criticism followed a report that Islamabad was tilting towards France rather than Germany which with much struggle had recently cleared the way for export of three submarines to Pakistan.According to defence experts, for Germany it was an economically promising but politically risky deal but despite backdoor work by Indian lobby the Germans had agreed to sell three U-214 submarines built by German ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems to Pakistan for an estimated $2 billion.Defence experts told Pakistan Observer that Germany was ready and was awaiting a formal order from the Ministry of Defence.

A German team of Naval experts had visited Karachi to discuss technicalities and a Pakistan Naval team also visited Germany to make final inspection. According to reports the German government had even agreed to grant federal export credit guarantees worth nearly $1.4 billion.Sources confirm that as the deal was proceeding and 95% ready, President Asif Ali Zardari overruled his military’s preference for the German subs to take up a “better offer” from France. The change of heart was noted when President Zardari visited Paris in May and has long meeting with French President.To the surprise of many Pakistanis on the eve of President Zardari’s visit a French judge accused some “powerful Pakistanis” of having something to do with the murder of 11 French engineers in Karachi in May 2002 as a retaliation for the decision of France’s new government to cease bribe payments from the 1995 deal.Coincidentally, in 1995 too, the Pakistan People’s Party was in power when the government bought three French Agosta 90-B submarines. President Zardari was then Minister for Investment in the PPP Government while now French President Nicolas Sarkozy was a key aide to then French President Edouard Balladur. The two developed a close relationship since then.President Zardari’s decision to turn to Paris for the deal also coincided with reports that PPP Government had decided to appoint a civil servant from the District Management Group as the Ambassador of Pakistan to France. The most unusual appointment was resented by the veteran and serving diplomats at home abroad and Prime Minister had to intervene and cancel the appointment of Mohammed Jehanzeb Khan.

Opposition members here claim that the delay in the issuing of the order for the German submarines that were almost finalized in December 2008 had “something to do with President Zardari’s meeting with President Sarkozy of France in May 2009? “ They also claim that the appointment of a junior civil servant as the envoy to Paris may also be related to this decision.Defence observers say that the Government managed to silence opposition to French deal by claiming that Paris had agreed to sign a peaceful nuclear cooperation deal while Germans were reluctant to deliver such an accord. Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi had claimed during President Zardari’s visit to Paris that France had agreed to extend cooperation in nuclear technology but French officials clarified that the cooperation would be limited to the safety and security of the nuclear plants.On July 2nd when French Admiral Edouard Guillaud, Advisor to President Sarkozy visited Pakistan he met with President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.Admiral Guillaud’s visit to Pakistan was considered as part of efforts aimed at further boosting the Pak-French relations in the wake of Zardari-Sarkozy meetings in May this year.PM proposed that the governments of Pakistan and France should chalk out a roadmap for pragmatic cooperation in the field of civil nuclear energy but there was no firm response from French side.

Admiral Guillaud however, assured the prime minister that France would provide military equipment including Tiger Helicopters to Pakistan.Again on July 23 on the occasion of a visist by French Secretary of State for Foreign Trade, Anne Marie Idrac, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani hoped that Pakistan would sign framework agreements with France on defence, security and energy this year and said that Pakistan wanted a long-term strategic partnership with France.Ms Idrac promised her country’s continued support to Pakistan in its efforts to overcome economic difficulties and win the war against terror. She said she would hold detailed discussions on economic and energy agreements. Ms Idrac made it clear that a proposed partnership between Pakistan and France on civilian nuclear energy would be limited to nuclear safety and security.What we propose is something very important, which is the possibility for technical people to discuss very precisely what can be done in terms of safety and security for the existing civil nuclear plants,’ she had clarified.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-pakistan-went-to-paris-for.html

 

[Hutchroy]

India to be handed ‘Nepra’ submarine after trial : Russia

MOSCOW: Russia will hand over the Akula-II class nuclear submarine “Nerpa” to India after the completion of its sea trials, the country’s top general said, without specifying any time-frame for it.

"The trials are underway according to schedule, after which the submarine will be handed over to the Indian Navy," Chief of Russia’s General Staff, General Nikolai Makarov was quoted as saying by media

Addressing a news conference in Ulan Bator, Gen. Makarov, accompanying President Medvedev on Mongolia tour, however, did not specify the time-frame for the delivery of the much- awaited submarine.

" There is no fixed schedule (of delivery), but there are no reasons for delay," he said.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin had earlier ordered to hand over the “Nerpa” to Indian Navy on 10-year lease by the end of this year.

Built by the Amur Shipyard in the far-eastern Khabarovsk region bordering China, “Nerpa” was hit by a deadly accident on November 8 last year in the Sea of Japan, when 21 sailors and civilian technical staff were killed due to abrupt release of lethal Freon gas from its fire-suppression system as a result of “human error”.

 

[rajeev]

They are many in India who want to turn Pakistan into a Nuclear Wasteland.

There are far few people in India that wants to nuke Pak. I dont how you get that message from.

The news always is that if Pak is attacked, then their general says that they will nuke us (India).

I wish one day there is some form of peace between India and Pak. But I dont think there will be a trust -- too much bad blood between us.

 

[SSGPA1]

I wish one day there is some form of peace between India and Pak. But I dont think there will be a trust -- too much bad blood between us.

Solve the Kashmir issue for lasting peace.

 

[laiqs@mi]

they wont solve, and our politicians dont want to solve this problem as well....
i dont want to say but it seems that a war between Pak and Ind may decide Kashmir. (it would be disasters for both) and i pray our politicians could understand it before such moment.

 

[Chanakyaa]

they wont solve, and our politicians dont want to solve this problem as well....
i dont want to say but it seems that a war between Pak and Ind may decide Kashmir. (it would be disasters for both) and i pray our politicians could understand it before such moment.

Exactly. Thats the ultimate truth of the matter.