Dude her personal bodyguards whos were closest to her killed her! It proves that many sikhs were supporting the Khalistan movement. Thousands were killed fighting u guys in the golden temple mate.
the Nepalese royal family was murdered by the heir apparent. do all Nepalese sons kill their family???
Suppose one of the bodyguard of the India PM was a Muslim and AQ brainwashed him and he killed the Indian PM what would be the conclusion??
the fact is that a single individual act is not representative of the whole community.. further, this is the argument raised by Muslims in response to suicide bombing and terrorists attacks of some Muslims..
the fact that the Sikh bodyguard killed her, gives more credence to brainwashing than give insight into the stance of Sikhs...
Revolutionaries during the time of Indian Independence used violence but most Indians were pro-Gandhi...
also, Even during the time of British.. Many Sikhs were fighting for Independence at the same time many Sikhs were fighting foreigners for the crown...
I think a survey of "Indian" Sikhs would be useful in this case.. the bigger the sample size the better
![What :what: :what:](/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/cute/what.gif)
U're getting it all wrong mate. Hindu Indians murdered raped, tortured & siezed property of 1000's of Sikhs.
I have conversed with Indian Sikhs you have conversed with Canadian Sikhs.
Probably the Canadian Sikhs Living in Canada know better than Sikhs living in Delhi and Punjab?
In response to indian oppression constant bias f4 example in education & employment & interferance in their religion they fought back making them freedom fighters.
education ?? the amount of Sikh run Schools,Colleges are amongst the highest (even in absolute terms)in India. and even in Pakistan, Sikhs had Khalsa Colleges pre-Partition, I don't know if they are there anymore.
employment?? Sikhs face particularly no bias in employment and are visible all over India and rate amongst the highest in economic statistics and also have a high urban-rural ratio
interference in religion?? Sikhs have their places of worship in almost all Indian cities and towns, open to visitors of all faiths. In fact Scriptures are composed of verses by Hindus and Muslims besides the Sikh Gurus. So I wouldn't expect them to be bothered.
And sikhs as such have not murdered innocents exept some who were really carried away. U shud'nt destroy their houses 2 see less of that.
terrorists have no sense of right or wrong.
Why wud fellow sikhs kill sikhs in a hindu sikh riot????
Sikh police officers killed Sikh terrorists and Khalistani sympathisers..
KPS Gill is seen by many sikhs a person who is a traitor to the sikh cause.
.." seen by many Khalistanis as a traitor to the Khalistani cause."
Why is that? Because he was in the indian army killing sikhs while he shud have been fighting f4 freedom
He was a police officer.
Why do Sikhs want a seperate state for Sikhs?
The foundation of Golden Temple was laid by the famous Muslim Saint Hazrat Mian Mir and Sikh Guru, Tegh Bahadur gave up his life for Hindus. This would be conduct unbecoming a true Sikh.
Even during the times of Sikh Empire of Maharaja Ranjit Singh Sikhism was not enforced or other religions mistreated. He infact had quite a secular govt. with Muslims and Hindus, and also built mosques and temples for his Muslim and Hindu subjects.
Yes, next u're going to say muslims & hindus r the same ignoring issues like Kashmir gujrat riots, muslims being the poorest & most illiterate group in India, the constant riots & favoring of hindu fanatics & murderers by the police & government.
I didn't get it.
According to the true sikhs the marriages with hindus r eating up the sikh religion.
true Sikhs? please point out Sikh scriptures or Sikh history that disallows marriages to non Sikhs??
those living in Canada are true Sikhs? and those in India, false?
They say that they will be in the museum if Khalistan is n8 created soon because hindus kidnap their girls & marry the helpless women... some women run away with hindus... What do u say about that?
If I remember these are the Sikhs who in the past protected women(of all religions) from Invaders and rescued them from Nader Shah's captivity(while he was enroute to Iran after looting Delhi) are you trying to tell me they can't protect their own womenfolk now???
FYI: in UK some Sikh(and Hindu) girls were forcibly kidnapped and converted to Islam.. in fact there were minor riots in Birmingham after one such an incident surfaced... try googling it...
How cud the same line of argument be used? Put it into action... lets see u try it.
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I am sure u won't be able to find any single link with urself & the outfits we r fighting against.
I didn't get it.
you said Pak is accused of supporting separtists movements while as I inferred you said Pak doesn't but should since their name is already maligned they should.
the word Pak can be safely replaced by India and it would make sense is all I am saying..
???
We were fighting against indian oppression & mistreatment & to safeguard our religion & not be slaughtered by u indians all the time
I have read Agnostic_Muslims's posts in this regard. You should ask him.
I think today the Sikhs are hailed as the model to be emulated.
A Sikh COAS, PM and Planning Commission chief at the same time.
Mr. Khushwant Singh was moved to call this achievement as the culmination of the goal that Sikhs will rule(Raj Karega Khalsa).
For a minority who numbers are contemptuous in India and the world, this is an unparalleled achievement.
They have finally realized that they have no future in India. Furthermore its sad that there r 146 million muslims in india & u r treating them like animals.
I quote Gandhi here. "A nations standard is judged by the way its animals are treated.." no offense to anyone but Gandhi meant to say that Indians generally treat even animals with care and love. further India actually has a bill of rights for cows...
Well i guess u're just jealous that theres so much in common about our cause & we see the cause of Khalistan as a noble one indeed.
Common??
1. Muslims didn't want to be ruled by Hindus. Sikhs in turn are ruling Hindus in India.
2. Muslims felt that they would be slaughtered by Hindus in India. Sikhs have two regiments in Indian Army slaughtering the enemies of India.
3. Muslims feels that Islam puts them at loggerheads with Hindus and Hinduism. Sikhs gave up their lives fighting for people of different faith, recite prayers written by Hindus and Muslims, and also built places of worship for different religions.
4. Muslims wanted to protect their elitist tag. Sikhs lost everything in partition yet today are one of the most prosperous community living in the most developed state of India.
What is common here????
in fact Sikhs believe that Sikhs will rule, and they have turned their belief into reality against all odds... at the same time w/o dividing people or sacrificing ideals of brotherhood and unity in diversity.....
[qupte]It talks volumes about the support they get! The murder of indira by her personal guards also speaks volumes. Use youtube or google & u'll notice how many thousands of sikhs there r supporting the Khalistan cause!!! Only thing is u're lucky that those who were persecuted in 1984 escaped outside or their children would be fighting against indian mistreatment oppression & murder of their forefathers in 1984.
[/quote]
this is your inference... I differ...
Insulted them. They were brutally suppressed! When hindu mobs attacked sikhs after indiras murder then it was perfectly okay & the police did nothing b8 stood as expectators (obviously on orders f4m government b8 u will keep saying indian govt is secular cauz its ur nature) b8
HINDU MOBS?? It was congress party workers and/or sympathisers of Indira Gandhi not BJP/RSS/VHP etc. in fact if I am not wrong BJP/RSS etc played a positive role(for Sikhs) if they did play any role...
those sympathizers could have muslims amongst them as well...
and Tytler is I think a Christian??
PS: what is b8? I hope it isn't bait??
whenever sikhs rose up against hindu tyranny & murder of their fellow sikhs they were violently suppressed
it wasn't Hindu tyranny but if it was, it was Congress's tyranny...
Sikhs were violently surpressed by Mughals, Afghans, British, Congress
and the result was
1. Mughals were destroyed
2. Afghans conquered
3. British forced to leave India
4. Congress in turn being headed by a Sikh...
(offtopic/ and yes when you say tyranny it is most likely that they were violently suppressed not painstakingly nurtured.)
Even during riots sikhs tried to protect themselves but they were repressed. U c ur beautiful secular government let sikhs be slaughtered mercilessly & did nothing.
Secularity was in full bloom when Muslims were slaughtered (Secular means insensitive to all religions or equally sensitive to all religions)..
though this doesn't mean it was correct but Indian Govt was secular at both times...
So the excerpt above proves Sikhs had the will to resist indian oppression and misrule even then but they were brutally murdered. A sikh leader is really famous f4 standing against indian rioters & chasing them away... then the police camse and disarmed him. Later hindus came and killed him.
I wasn't convinced neither the 20million odd Sikhs in India or the billion+ Indians in India.
He is known as a hero by the true sikhs or the Khalistani sikhs.
true Muslims or suicide bombers???
I am glad that minorities r realizeing the truth. It is because of our stupid forefathers who stayed back f4 their jaidad we had to suffer constantly. Sikhs need a land to call their own as muslims gained one in 47.
Dimension, in fact the call for Khalistan was raised prior to partition.Further, Nehru believed that since Muslims were getting Pakistan, Sikhs by giving similar line of argument could get greater share for them (and India), and Sikhs were game for this since some Sikhs they didn't want to see Punjab divided and their "wealth, land and homes" lost.
Khalistan's map at the time consisted of most of west Punjab, it was Jinnah and the British who refused to grant them their "motherland" at the time..
So instead of chastising India you should be chastising creators of Pakistan who didn't give Sikhs their motherland...
Who are the Guilty ? PUDR-PUCL report of 1984
So what do u say now? And please don't display common indian nature here as well and try to deny cauz this is from indian human rights organization. PUDR (People's Union For Democratic Rights) and PUCL (People's Union For Civil Liberties).
I didn't happen to read it but what are you trying to prove??
Temme something? How many more people do u guys plan to kill? I mean atleast give me a number & tell me when & where u're going to strike atleast so that we can get our relatives out of there before u guys go f4 it...
sorry to disappoint you but I am not a soothsayer or pogrom planner..
Yes the way u feel sorry for kashmir, gujrat voilence victems, sikhs killed in 84, dalits being marginalized...
sorry?? I feel more sympathetic/empathetic.. ultimate I believe in karma so you get what you deserve thing...
i'm sorry we don't require ur sympathy.
I am not giving you I just feel..
We r happy here as we r accepted & treated well. Furhtermore i have more power & control here than i wud ever get in a so called secular democracy.
I think in a secular democracy you will ideally have as much power and control as the guy standing next to you ... so you cannot claim to have greater power and control .. if this is your goal/ambition then yes Secular democracy is not meant/ideal for you..
True i'm sure it must be my attitude b8 not the attitude of police and government towards minorities. Well in any case I am glad that many muslims r realizing the truth today and are leaving India. Our forefathers made a mistake thinking only about their wealth & property b8 thats okay & we will correct it. I can't think of myself as anything but a Pakistani now so please continue. I cannot change ur mindset u c. Theres a reason that there r few indian muslims who come & defend india & its name. PD is an example b8 anyway... I dunno what u're talking about cauz i dun see the courts giving justice f4 the gujrat riots, thousands murdered in kashmir or 84 riots etc. List will be huge so... anyway most ppl r locked up bf4 they hire a lawyer or go to court when they go 2 file a report so
You are entitled to your opinions
What words thou speaketh... they amazeth me... maketh me smile, maketh me laugh, maketh me shiver like the nights breeze...
U knw what it dus'nt feel like Von shakespeare is'nt here.... did salim leave the site? I really enjoyed his posts...
I lost you here!!
There aren't a huge percentage of sikhs in delhi if thats what u're trying to tell me mate:
Now sikhs r only 4% of the population in delhi. Damn u're funny...
I am in Delhi at the moment... in all the areas that I go too there are quite a lot of Sikhs..
Though I haven't been to poorer sections of town much, but all the richer sections have a lot of Sikhs..
and most Sikhs in Delhi have chopped thier hair...
Obviously since they were poor that justifies them being killed rather than an educated sikh. Brilliant comment!
If you didn't know but Sikhs have quite a lot of caste based politics going on...
Dude how can u say an entire community votes f4 1n group? But yeah they have little choice anyway considering the fact that BJP is hardline hindu organization responsible for genocide as well.
genocide of Sikhs????
It wud be any sikh who has feeling f4 his or her sikh brothers. I am not talking about a terrorist or a killer b8 a sikh who understands the injustice done to his brothers & feels the pain they feel. A sikh who cannot let the sacrifice of those thousands of fellow sikhs who were killed due to indian bias & discrimination go in vain and will work f4 a better future f4 his community so that n8 a single sikh will be treated unfairly because of his or her faith again. Thats according to my sikh freind... who is a true sikh.
If I am not wrong then the Sikhs ought to take revenge from Muslims, British etc who slaughtered many of them, discriminated against them, took away their beloved Punjab, the birthplace of the Guru, The seat of their empire...
A profile of a true sikh & a defender:
YouTube - AkaalSoldier84's Channel
... a true sikh = Khalistani Sikh. I know I know thanks..
though if you happen to read Scriptures it is quite clearly mentioned who is a Sikh and who is a khalsa(baptised sikh) or not....
50000 sikhs were'nt all "criminals" as u call them. Less than 3000 were actually freedom fighters killed f4 the creation of khalistan. Possibly even only a thousand.
All definetly might not have been but many killed by police must have been....
Jarnail singh bhinranwala was arrested, bullied & harressed constantly by Indira.
In fact if you had happened to read history.. Bhindranwale was a crony of Gandhi and Giani Zail Singh nurtured to garner Sikh votes from Akali Dal... he was excessively pampered and allowed to do his thing... and this messed him up and he turned on them..
Please read any of the books on 1984 or Sikhs or Bhindranwale...
When he realized that the very religion he followed was under attack he started vouching f4 independence.
U shud knw he spent his early life as a very peaceful indian b8 obviously sumwhere along the line indian bias got in the way and he was arrested & ur ancestors tried to frame him f4 murder because they could'nt have a Sikh religious leader with too much influence.
Bhindranwale was the leader of DamDami Thaksal, and leader of Nihangs, a sect of Sikhism...
Mainstream Sikhs have always been at loggerheads with the "militant", ultraorthodox Nihangs and Damdami taksal... and both shun each other...
Mainstream Sikhs call Nihangs heretical and vice versa..
Also there were many innocents who were mercilessly slaughtered in the siege.
expected...
Ya ya whatever. They made a joke of the entire sikh community. If he had thought about sikhs thousands would'nt have been killed. He is een as an enemy of Sikhs by many. No sikh approves of the 84 murder rape & loot. Even the pro-indian ones think of it as "forget what happened in the past and move on"
Exactly why to think of past?? I don't see Sikhs thinking of taking revenge from Muslims,British etc...
U indians have no idea what secularism is & u always throw in something wierd. The proper most simple way to define secularism is when all ethnic, cultural, political, religious groups r treated equally regardless of their religion culture etc.
treated equally.. aka either I reject them all or I be sensitive to all..
If I allow a Muslim woman to wear a veil, I must allow a sikh to wear a turban, a Hindu to wear his tilak...
If I disallow a Muslim to wear the veil, I must disallow a Sikh to wear his turban and a Hindu to put a mark on his forehead...
in both cases the govt is secular...
In India this is in no way true. Having a sikh prime minister & muslim president to show the world a fake picture of India won't make it so either.
fake picture???
then why doesn't the whole world puts up such fake pictures..
if Obama wins a Black supremacist will call it a fake picture to show American equality....
What muslim country has relations with u exept bangladesh... u hav no defence ties with bangladesh exept sum small scale 1ns. My bengali freinds & cousins c themselves as closer to Pakistan rather than india despite the fact that it was indians who r the reason bangladesh was formed.[/quote
Saudi Arabia, Iran, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Malaysia, Indonesia, Maldives, Yemen, Oman all have close relationships with India...
Only mutual relations u hav r with the Khar-zai govt spreading terrorism in Pakistan with ur help. Please continue killing as is ur nature. U can simply not hold back f4m it as u want to punish us getting the hell out of ur country and calling this our home. U will chase muslims no matter where they run f4m indian "secularism" so...
spreading terror in Pakistan.. I thought it was Pakistanis spreading terror in Pakistan (and even in UK)...
Talk to them more often & u might manage to notice.
in fact my best friend is a Sikh...
Kyaa baat ki hai mainey... temme sumthing
I didn't get you...
Yes i'm sure u'd love to hear some nice jokes about puja diwali or holi like the sikhs hav to hear about their customs of wearing a pagri & having hair on their face. Sometimes u ppl don't even leave there gurus alone.
Most of the Sikh jokes told to me are by Sikhs only... they have a tremendous sense of humour... they don't mind cracking jokes on their religion themselves..
?????? Why might that be?
because Canadian Sikhs are true Sikhs .. rest all others are false...
Yes their population is 60000-200000 & r an extremely tiny minority. So if they had been in india u wud hav already killed of 5/6 of sikhism & the other wud be in jail considering the fact 50000 were killed & others r ******* in jail.
Glad to know they enjoy equal rights as Muslims in Pakistan..(does this mean a sikh man can marry a muslim woman?)
its sad that they aren't too visible in media... I will dig up some info on them though when I have the time...
U wud'nt? Well considering the fact that ur BJP has been trying to divide them & making noise about our hindu brothers being in Pakistan i won't believe that u don't.
really?? I thought BJP didn't care about Pak based Hindus??
wow this is news to me.. if they are treated well they should be left alone and if they are illtreated they should be allowed to seek asylum in Pakistan.. similar courtesies should be extended to people in India too...
This is what our hindu brother thinks about u guys. Hope u feel as glad as u did bf4 reading it.
I am glad he is patriotic.. I hate people who are disloyal to their motherland and loyal to other lands because of their religious beliefs...
I bet this is the best artictle i ever found!!!! A slap on the face of BJP... lolzZ
LOL.. ZZZ
Dude the Pakistani sikhs r happy to call themselves Pakistanis and don't want Pakistani land to go to Khalistan but only Indian land because that is where Sikhs have actually been mistreated. Khalistan Zindabad!!!...
Khalistan is a must!
as I said as per the original demand of Khalistan most of Pakistani Punjab was a part of it.. this is being disloyal to the cause of the original Sikh separatists...