India-Pakistan through the Israel-Palestine Mirror

[Secur]

The military is given a task by its political chain of command to achieve certain goals, but it is the military's prerogative to plan out how to best achieve it.

No International Laws and due processes valid here, I presume?

 

[VCheng]

Ive been reading ur posts quiet frequently acting all high and mighty trying to portray ur self as a unbiased intellect but now i know your taking the piss and arguing for the sake of it. The difference here is Pakistan Army does everything it can to protect its citizens but that does not mean you turn into a beast and wreak havoc against civilians of a different ethnicity or background like Israel does. Do you understand this you fucktard?

I could reply, but the unnecessary use of profanity makes it useless.

No International Laws and due processes valid here, I presume?

They are, and they are being applied as best as possible, given the circumstances. UN is operating in the area, and the media are covering everything that is going on. The rockets are still being fired and soldiers abducted. Israel is also shelling. The truces are being broken as soon as they are negotiated. The whole thing is a mess that will take some time to sort out, obviously.

 

[Barakah]

I could reply, but the unnecessary use of profanity makes it useless.



They are, and they are being applied as best as possible, given the circumstances. UN is operating in the area, and the media are covering everything that is going on. The rockets are still being fired and soldiers abducted. Israel is also shelling. The truces are being broken as soon as they are negotiated. The whole thing is a mess that will take some time to sort out, obviously.

plz dont im allergic to ur bullshit.

 

[Secur]

The real irony is that equal amounts of salt, from zero to the whole shaker, apply to both situations. For example, we know about the civilian's plight in Gaza from the international media, who are covering the story comprehensively. Yet, the Pakistan Army has banned all media coverage of what it is doing. I am not trusting the Israeli position, but I do see the independent media covering what they are doing. When there are similar sources covering what is being done in FATA, we can then see where the salt is needed or not.

The real irony is that there, the intention is clear and the indiscriminate bombing causing civilian casualties is deliberate. It isn't so, in our case which is ten times worse with hostile border and a sympathetic population. The example is that we have asked the civilians to move out, to facilities provided by the Govt and public in camps, we have asked to not remain in the crossfire and we haven't blockaded the whole region to stop the civilians from escaping.

They are, and they are being applied as best as possible, given the circumstances. UN is operating in the area, and the media are covering everything that is going on. The rockets are still being fired and soldiers abducted. Israel is also shelling. The truces are being broken as soon as they are negotiated. The whole thing is a mess that will take some time to sort out, obviously.

Yes indeed, yet the overwhelmingly majority killed is civilians by the same agency, also the UN camps are being attacked, do not forget that.

 

[VCheng]

The real irony is that there, the intention is clear and the indiscriminate bombing causing civilian casualties is deliberate. It isn't so, in our case which is ten times worse with hostile border and a sympathetic population. The example is that we have asked the civilians to move out, to facilities provided by the Govt and public in camps, we have asked to not remain in the crossfire and we haven't blockaded the whole region to stop the civilians from escaping.

Thank God that Pakistan is much better than Israel, no doubt about it.

plz dont im allergic to ur bullshit.

Please take some Benadryl and put me on your ignore list. Problem solved.

 

[Meengla]

Its ironic that you blindly trust the Israeli position and stances being spread by propaganda media far and wide yet take your own country's army with a grain of salt.

Correct. Good post!

I can't believe that someone would equate the North Waziristan operation with the Gaza operation. NWA has lots of FOREIGN (and quite possibly FOREIGN funded) terrorists who have been terrorizing innocent Pakistanis for a decade. The State of Pakistan finally acted. But plenty of time was given for the civilians to escape. The IDPs are taken care of within the meager means of the Pakistani state. Just like in Swat, the results are very likely to be welcomed by the locals when they go back to NWA.
As to the journalists not allowed in NWA: You need to study how the immature media of Pakistan turned the Lal Masjid operation into a propaganda event for the pseudo-jihadis.

 

[Secur]

Why do you think that is? After all, it is an Arab problem. Why are Pakistanis try to be more Arab than the Arabs themselves?

I completed the sentence as to why, the Arab countries are happy to see the Gazans suffering and wish to put no pressure on Israel. Pakistanis are not becoming more Arab than the Arabs themselves by speaking out against civilian causalities and injustices unless they are asking the Govt of Pakistan to go bomb Israel or use nuclear weapons or military engagement by other means, that is another problem of Arab wannabes and one which I don't agree with. It doesn't mean, though, to stay silent and turn a blind eye to all that is happening in Gaza. There are countries in South America even ( and people from all countries except Israel ) protesting against this, what are you seriously objecting to?

 

[VCheng]

I completed the sentence as to why, the Arab countries are happy to see the Gazans suffering and wish to put no pressure on Israel. Pakistanis are not becoming more Arab than the Arabs themselves by speaking out against civilian causalities and injustices unless they are asking the Govt of Pakistan to go bomb Israel or use nuclear weapons, that is another problem of Arab wannabes and one which I dont agree with. It doesn't mean, though, to stay silent and turn a blind eye to all that is happening in Gaza. There are countries in South America even ( and people from all countries except Israel ) protesting against this, what are you objecting to?

What is happening in Gaza is only one side of the picture. Why ignore the other side totally?

 

[Xeric]

@VCheng probably forgets that whereas NWA has been evacuated, Gaza isnt.

And had arty been a preferred choice to be used inside populated areas, PGMs would not have been invented, nor we would have preferred them when we targeted HVTs 'before' the announcement of the operation.

 

[Secur]

Correct. Good post!

I can't believe that someone would equate the North Waziristan operation with the Gaza operation. NWA has lots of FOREIGN (and quite possibly FOREIGN funded) terrorists who have been terrorizing innocent Pakistanis for a decade. The State of Pakistan finally acted. But plenty of time was given for the civilians to escape. The IDPs are taken care of within the meager means of the Pakistani state. Just like in Swat, the results are very likely to be welcomed by the locals when they go back to NWA.
As to the journalists not allowed in NWA: You need to study how the immature media of Pakistan turned the Lal Masjid operation into a propaganda event for the pseudo-jihadis.

There is no parallel, there is no similarity and yet I am seeing ridiculous articles and the subsequent threads of PDF equating Israel with Pakistan and the Operation in North Waziristan with Gaza conflict, self contradictory and incognizant of the reality on ground. Hadn't there been public support with us, a million IDPs wouldn't have come out on a single call to facilitate the fighting with Taliban, whoever is staying behind still, has questionable and suspicious motives.

I am not sure about any official media ban in the tribal areas, I haven't heard about it personally and there are journalists who have reported from there, though accompanied by the military.

 

[VCheng]

@VCheng probably forgets that whereas NWA has been evacuated, Gaza isnt.

And had arty been a preferred choice to be used inside populated areas, PGMs would not have been invented, nor we would have preferred them when we targeted HVTs 'before' the announcement of the operation.

It is also fair to keep in mind that FATA is, for the lack of a better word, "evacuatable" whereas Gaza is not. What then?

I am not sure about any official media ban in the tribal areas, I haven't heard about it personally and there are journalists who have reported from there, though accompanied by the military.

No independent journalists have been allowed in FATA for a long time now.

 

[Secur]

No independent journalists have been allowed in FATA for a long time now.

Is there an official ban? There have been journalists in F.A.T.A. interviewing terrorists leaders or reporting on their aims and objectives, not now where the ISPR is accompanying them, but surely earlier. How old is the ban?

What is happening in Gaza is only one side of the picture. Why ignore the other side totally?

Please, tell me about it.

 

[VCheng]

Is there an official ban?

Just like there is no official ban on Geo?

There have been no independent journalists allowed in FATA. That is a verifiable fact.

Please, tell me about it.

Not the topic here, but suffice to say that both Pakistan and Israel are engaged in military operations against those who target their civilian populations indiscriminately.

 

[SQ8]

That is only your opinion. To quote @fatman17 as he commented on civilian deaths in FATA "shite happens". Nobody can avoid collateral damage. In a densely populated area, it is made more difficult still..

Shit happens?
If that is the crux of your argument then it stands on wafer thin lines. Shit happens does not mean direct bombing of hospitals, schools and shooting of children in the head. Especially when you have the assets and equipment available to avoid such casualties.

 

[VCheng]

Shit happens?
If that is the crux of your argument then it stands on wafer thin lines. Shit happens does not mean direct bombing of hospitals, schools and shooting of children in the head. Especially when you have the assets and equipment available to avoid such casualties.

Sir, I quoted what he said. That is not my view.