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India must respect Vienna convention on Italy envoy's immunity says EU

Exactly nothing can be done. They found loop hole in our law...

It is not the loop hole but created a complex situation which involves Indian laws and Vienna convention.

But this move will hurt them badly since they are behaving so immaturely.
 
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Exactly nothing can be done. They found loop hole in our law...

What loop hole ? When I said " loop holed laws " , I meant the International ones the West twists to set things in their favor even though I am still curious how exactly two people under trial were sent home for Xmas and voting and kept in guest houses ( some members pointed it out to me , dont know if that is true ) ...
 
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SC brings up ‘Brutus’ during marine case hearing

NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Monday referred to Brutus from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar while dealing with the alleged violation of naval guards by Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini to bring back two marines facing trial in India.

Attorney general G E Vahanvati read out the March 15 note verbale from the Italian embassy demanding complete immunity and freedom of movement, including travelling out of India, for Mancini and indirectly questioning the authority of the Supreme Court to restrain him from going out of the country.

The note verbale started with a reminder and said the embassy "has the honour to remind the ministry of external affairs of the obligations relating to the protection of diplomatic agents enshrined in the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of April 18, 1961".

As Vahanvati read the word "honour", the bench headed by Chief Justice Altamas Kabir, which made clear its displeasure over the breach of undertaking by Mancini, asked the AG not to mention "honour" in the communication.

Justice Kabir said, "This reminds us of the word 'honourable' used to describe Brutus in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar." The CJI did not elaborate. But it explained the feelings of the court on breach of a sovereign undertaking by Italy and a personal undertaking by Mancini to bring back the two marines after the four-week leave beginning on February 22.

In Shakespeare's play, Marcus Brutus was a close friend of Caesar. Another character Cassius refers to Brutus as a "noble" and "honourable" character. But finding Brutus joining a group of conspiring senators plotting Caesar's assassination because of the rumour about Caesar turning Rome into a monarchy, Cassius says, "Yet I see that your honourable character can be bent from its usual shape, which proves that good men should stick only to the company of other good men, because who is so firm that he can't be seduced?"

When the senators launch a mortal attack on Caesar and finding his close friend among the assassins, Caesar exclaims, "Et Tu Brutus (You too Brutus!)."

The bench said some people had written that the Supreme Court was naive to let the marines go on the ambassador's personal undertaking. "Were we naive? Should we have not accorded importance to a sovereign guarantee and a personal guarantee from an ambassador? If we act in furtherance to a sovereign guarantee, are we naive," the bench asked.

This is not the first time that the Supreme Court has permitted foreign nationals, facing criminal cases in India, to visit their country on the basis of undertakings from diplomats.

Three Chinese - Wu Chuannan, Wang Weiqing and Liu Gaoxuan - were repeatedly permitted by the Supreme Court between 2010 and 2012 to go out of the country after the consul general of China in Kolkata gave undertaking.

The court had recorded no objection from Chhattisgarh standing counsel Atul Jha and permitted the Chinese to go to their country, which included two weeks to two of them to get married, on the assurance given by the power company they worked for, the consul general's undertaking and a bank guarantee of Rs 1 crore.

But the Chinese never breached their undertaking or assurances as is the case of Italy now before the Supreme Court.

SC brings up ‘Brutus’ during marine case hearing - The Times of India

EU closely watching Italian envoy case, says India must respect Vienna Convention - The Economic Times on Mobile

If India tries to detain the ambassador on March 22, the next step is Italy invoking NATO collective defense.

Yeah....like we are Afganistan.....
To even think that INDIA and NATO are going to war for this matter is utter nonsence. Only a stupid like you will dream about this.
 
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Looks like a big game of chicken to see who will blink first.

What if Italy were to detain the Indian ambassador? Then it'd be game on.

Don't mind me, guys. I'm just sitting here eating popcorn and watching the fireworks.
 
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Bharatkalyan97: Subramanian Swamy sabotages a SoniaG's GOI ploy to bail out Mancini -- MJ Akbar


The UPA wanted him to escape through false dust. Once he left India, Congress could have officially begun to chase him with the same dedication and diligence it has shown in pursuit of Bofors-accused Ottavio Quattrochi. A clearly upset Supreme Court, acting on the intervention of Subramaniam Swamy, sabotaged this neat ploy; otherwise Mancini would have been dancing all the way back to another posting. His replacement would have arrived in a couple of months, with minimum fanfare and maximum noise about the larger interests of Indo-Italian relations. The dust would settle. Game over.

Looks like a big game of chicken to see who will blink first.

What if Italy were to detain the Indian ambassador? Then it'd be game on.

Don't mind me, guys. I'm just sitting here eating popcorn and watching the fireworks.

He has done nothing, utmost, he can be expelled.
But, he is not even sent there. they stopped him going there for 2 months. he was supposed to leave for Italy few days back, but was restrained by GOI.
 
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it's not arrogance mate it shows our will to stand up to something wrong!i will just repeat my statement that the EU won't be able to take any serious action against India because of this incident and you know why because we are an important player in the global diplomatic arena.mark my words that Italy will be compelled to send those rwo murderers back to India to face prosecution.Period:azn:!

You want to place a wager on that?

As much as i detest the actions of the Italian marines, i also acknowledge realpolitik. India is neither the US nor the ex USSR. She simply lacks the muscle whether military, diplomatic, economic or political to force a heavyweight such as Italy to accept India's demands. If the offender were either a citizen of Bhutan or Nepal, i would accept your assertion but not against a heavy weight like Italy. India stands to loose more if the EU decides to impose restrictions on India. India exports more compared to what it imports from the EU, and Indian products can easily be substituted from other markets. Italy has been steadfast that it will prosecute the marines in Italian courts and will not be extraditing them to India. You are just making utopian predictions which are not backed up by any actions, logic or facts.
 
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You want to place a wager on that?

As much as i detest the actions of the Italian marines, i also acknowledge realpolitik. India is neither the US nor the ex USSR. She simply lacks the muscle whether military, diplomatic, economic or political to force a heavyweight such as Italy to accept India's demands. If the offender were either a citizen of Bhutan or Nepal, i would accept your assertion but not against a heavy weight like Italy. India stands to loose more if the EU decides to impose restrictions on India. India exports more compared to what it imports from the EU, and Indian products can easily be substituted from other markets. Italy has been steadfast that it will prosecute the marines in Italian courts and will not be extraditing them to India. You are just making utopian predictions which are not backed up by any actions, logic or facts.

Do you know India is one of the biggest investors in Europe.

When China was busy buying US bonds, on the other hand, India was busy investing in Europe.

Its not that we can't arrest the diplomat, just that Indian wants to bring other countries on board before taking a tough decision since Italy is disputing that Indian fishermen were killed in Indian waters. Once India gets support on that point, the diplomat might be sent to the jail for few days before being released.

If India does not take strict action, then the daughter in law from Italy will be accused of helping out Italia.
 
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You want to place a wager on that?

As much as i detest the actions of the Italian marines, i also acknowledge realpolitik. India is neither the US nor the ex USSR. She simply lacks the muscle whether military, diplomatic, economic or political to force a heavyweight such as Italy to accept India's demands. If the offender were either a citizen of Bhutan or Nepal, i would accept your assertion but not against a heavy weight like Italy. India stands to loose more if the EU decides to impose restrictions on India. India exports more compared to what it imports from the EU, and Indian products can easily be substituted from other markets. Italy has been steadfast that it will prosecute the marines in Italian courts and will not be extraditing them to India. You are just making utopian predictions which are not backed up by any actions, logic or facts.

Not being a jingoistic
 
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You want to place a wager on that?

As much as i detest the actions of the Italian marines, i also acknowledge realpolitik. India is neither the US nor the ex USSR. She simply lacks the muscle whether military, diplomatic, economic or political to force a heavyweight such as Italy to accept India's demands. If the offender were either a citizen of Bhutan or Nepal, i would accept your assertion but not against a heavy weight like Italy. India stands to loose more if the EU decides to impose restrictions on India. India exports more compared to what it imports from the EU, and Indian products can easily be substituted from other markets. Italy has been steadfast that it will prosecute the marines in Italian courts and will not be extraditing them to India. You are just making utopian predictions which are not backed up by any actions, logic or facts.

look at the size of India power it's more than half of EU collectively, do you seriously think Italy will get away beneath EU banner without any repercussions, Again we ain't a nation surviving on money bestowed by west.
 
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Live India must respect Vienna convention on Italy envoys immunity says EU - Page 1 | Firstpost

An attack on an ambassador is an attack on the country and Italy is a NATO member!


It is not the Ambassador, it is the individual who made an undertaking to the court who is in danger of punishment. Just too bad he also is an ambassador.

EU closely watching Italian envoy case, says India must respect Vienna Convention - The Economic Times on Mobile

If India tries to detain the ambassador on March 22, the next step is Italy invoking NATO collective defense.


We do not plan to bomb Rome just yet.
 
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Do you know India is one of the biggest investors in Europe.

When China was busy buying US bonds, on the other hand, India was busy investing in Europe.

Its not that we can't arrest the diplomat, just that Indian wants to bring other countries on board before taking a tough decision since Italy is disputing that Indian fishermen were killed in Indian waters. Once India gets support on that point, the diplomat might be sent to the jail for few days before being released.

If India does not take strict action, then the daughter in law from Italy will be accused of helping out Italia.

Yaar bass karo.Is bania mentality se desh ka kabhi bhala nahi hoga.

DO you genuinely think that few billion dollars are going to buy off a country.

You seem to have very faulty understanding of scale of things.Few billion dollars are nothing for even a medium size economy.And usually country's sovereignty is not on sale.
 
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It is not the Ambassador, it is the individual who made an undertaking to the court who is in danger of punishment. Just too bad he also is an ambassador.

That pretty much means that irrespective of any undertaking he has given,the worst that he could receive is a slap on wrist ie condemnation.
 
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The ambassador himself let go his diplomatic immunity when he voluntarily entered Indian jurisdiction by signing an undertaking in front of the supreme court of India...

But they way marines were allowed to leave country, not only once but twice in such a short time interval does rings a bell pointing to the conspiracy behind this whole act.. This is a Congress setup which didn't end up the way they expected it to be.. Hats off to Subramaniam Swami for helping prevent the Italian ambassador to leave country as soon as decision about Marines was announced!!
 
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Italy lied and disrespected the supreme court .It broke the law of the land . If anybody is arrogent here it is Italy . I mean they have totally disrespected an entire nation. If we are talking about breaking the law then Italy has done exactly that.
Laws are there for enforcing justice .
 
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