India Must Make Peace With Pakistan to Stop Terrorism

[a.dagha]

My bad. But my point remains the same.

 

[ajpirzada]

GoP has to raise the questions. GoP has to make show out of this. They has to question the evidence. Not doing this means you accept.

they did question ur investigation but didnt start crying about it to make sure that peace talks dont get affected.

No. I am pointing to fact how spin given to facts.

the way u are going about it is not correct at all. take it for both sides if u want to or else dont mention it.

What did the witness said? That RDX was procured by Col. So? Check the facts. RDX is not even used in the SE blasts. The only thing used to link SE blast with Purohit was the statement by witness regarding procurement of RDX by Purohit.
Four bags were planted and only 2 went off. Rest 2 were taken in custody by agencies. There was no RDX in those bags.

RDX or IEDs a common person does not know the difference. wat the witness said was about the bag with the explosive material in it. a known fact is that investigation regarding SE was never completed

Police reach Mumbai to quiz Purohit, Sadhvi Pragya
Mumbai/Lucknow (PTI): A Haryana Railway police team reached Mumbai to interrogate Malegaon blast case suspects Lt Col S P Purohit and Sadhvi Pragya Singh Thakur after it was established that suitcase bombs, which blew up two bogies of Indo-Pak Samjhauta Express train in February last year, were assembled in Indore.

In Lucknow, self-claimed religious guru Dayanand Pandey, allegedly involved in the Malegaon blast, was arrested by a joint team of Maharashtra police and central security agencies and will be produced before a Nashik court within three days.

As the probe intensified, the Anti Terrorism Squad (ATS) was tightlipped on reports that the missing laptop of Purohit believed to contain crucial information has been traced.

In Chandigarh, Inspector General (Railway Police), K K Mishra said "our investigations in the Samjhauta probe had led us to Indore after we got clues that the suitcases and stichings on them which were used in the explosions were procured from Indore." 68 people had been killed in the twin explosions on Samjhauta. ATS is probing Purhoit's Indore links.

Pandey, head of Sharda Sarvagya Peeth in Jammu ,was produced Thursday in Lucknow before magistrate Mukesh Kumar who gave him transit remand for three days. The ATS will produce him before a Nashik court by November 16.

His Chartered Accountant (CA) V K Kapoor and son Pawan were detained in Jammu's Trikuta Nagar but were released after questioning Wednesday evening.

The Hindu News Update Service

its clear from wat so ever investigation was going on that a hindu extremist group was involved in the bomb blast.

Looking at recent activities in Valley, they will not agree.

recent means after u put a stop to dialogue which will always give more force to organisations like LeT to lure youth against your atrocities in kashmir. however if you go before mumbai attacks when peace process was going well you will have to agree with me on the significant decrease in infiltration.

 

[Bang Galore]

Sigh! Just another conspiracy theorist and to think you started off so well.

At this point, I would really like your thoughts on Indian presence in Afghanistan. More importantly the 'proxies' that India is running right under Pakistan's very nose, close to its Fronties and Balochistan provinces. Just yesterday, India's "national interest" was cited as a reason. Would you not agree that this is BS?

Just a theory. No proof whatsoever. Standard obfuscation. If India were running such a large operation from within Afghanistan, surely NATO & ISAF must know about it unless they are totally incompetent. So, are they all hand in glove with India on this? BTW, you are surely not suggesting that the Taliban(Pakistan) is accepting support from Indians while fighting fellow muslims because they are not 'muslim' enough, are you? Baluchistan is a theoretical possibility but no evidence has been provided to anyone at all. Why is it that when India provides evidence, it is termed inadequate or insufficient but mere allegations by Pakistani officials without providing a iota of proof is expected to be taken seriously.

Not that many Punjabis? Weak point. And, there are 160 million muslims in India (or thereabouts, even more than there are in Pakistan). I still maintain that it was a premature allegation. Just because you were 'right' (according to your own dossier, ridden with anomalies) does not give you the right to put blame without evidence. THAT to any nation is an insult and is a sign of immaturity on part of the accusing nation (in my humble opinion). I am sorry but if you think of me as a thief already, I am not going to waste my time pacifying your concerns. Plus, it really undermines your story when you find only evidence that EXACTLY confirms your own suspicions.

And then, lo and behold, you find Pakistani toothpaste and dry fruit and guns and grenades, all of which can be fabricated with relative ease BTW. And then we hear in the Indian media, that this was a very "sophisticated and highly planned" assault. Tell me something. If in fact it was, how did they seemingly mess up at every corner? They did not destroy the boat, left GPS and phones completely intact before dying, hell, some were even carrying ID Cards and passports (for a terrorist attack!!!). And to top it all off, RAW had somehow provided them with their SIM cards, which is why they were able to record the conversations.

Look , I cannot stop you from believing whatever you want but your arguments make little sense. Unlike the usual conspiracy theorists, you admit that LeT was incolved and then cast aspersions on the 26/11 attack . What are you suggesting? That RAW worked with the LeT to attack a major Indian city? The Americans have arrested two men of pakistani origin, one of whom has admitted to involvement in the planning of attack. So what's your take on David Headley? Ilyas Kashmiri has also been named as a planner of the 26/11 attack and he has been on record promising more such attacks. BTW, the Punjabi angle is meaningless unless you subscribe to Zaid Hamid's theory that " Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh - a Sikh!".

More doubts:




Karkare Episode – Few Relevant Questions (from kmsnews.org)



Another go at understanding 26/11 - dnaindia.com

This is unfortunately more of the usual conspiracy theory. First it makes the case that Karkare was some sort of lone ranger who was doing all these investigations on his own. Surely you know better than that. Karkare worked with a huge team under him and it was juniors doing the investigation. He also reported to more senior officers and to the political leadership. Without their support, where do you think he could have gone? He also had to deal with police forces of different states and with the army in investigating one of their own. Transfer orders are a lot easier than killing nearly 200 people to get him out of the scene. I don't know if you have watched HBO's "Terror in Mumbai" which actually gives you enough details on how Karkare died. He was killed by Kasab and his buddy alongside other senior officers. A policemen who was with Karkare and suffered injuries in that attack surviving only because he pretended to be dead was also interviewed. As i have said before there is nothing I or anyone else can say to convince you if you choose to believe otherwise.

And then.. there is this:

New Delhi, Feb 4 (IANS) - Mumbai attackers’ handler may be an Indian: Chidambaram

The government Thursday admitted that at least one of the 26/11 terror handlers could be an Indian but the true identity of the person was yet to be ascertained.
“There was a handler in 26/11 whom we have known for long, or suspected for a long time, could be an Indian. That’s something we have known for many, many months now. He goes by the name Abu Jindal, but that is not his real name,” Home Minister P. Chidambaram told CNBC-TV18 channel in an interview.

Said by the Indian Home Minister and he is talking about one of the handlers of the 26/11 attacks who was in Pakistan. Admission as proof of hiding? C'mon.

All these are questions that common Pakistanis are asking about the legitimacy of the Indian argument. And it is mainly because of the way you treated Pakistan like a nation of terrorists. It is almost as if you wanted this.

Not going to dignify that with a response. Expected better from you.

No doubt Lashkar WAS involved. And it IS based in Pakistan. But somehow, I and many other Pakistanis feel that there is much more to this. Indians however, seem disinterested to find out more about Indian involvement in 26/11, so long as they have enough to implicate Pakistan.

As for the feeling you say that you have and which according to you is shared by many Pakistanis, there is nothing that India can do to make that feeling go away. That is a feeling that only you can make go away whenever you decide to change the glasses that cloud your vision.

Thank you for your time.

 

[a.dagha]

Sigh! Just another conspiracy theorist and to think you started off so well.

Sorry to disappoint but your branding me as a conspiracy theorist wont make me shut up and stop questioning. If I see holes, I will flag them.

Just a theory. No proof whatsoever. Standard obfuscation. If India were running such a large operation from within Afghanistan, surely NATO & ISAF must know about it unless they are totally incompetent. So, are they all hand in glove with India on this? BTW, you are surely not suggesting that the Taliban(Pakistan) is accepting support from Indians while fighting fellow muslims because they are not 'muslim' enough, are you? Baluchistan is a theoretical possibility but no evidence has been provided to anyone at all. Why is it that when India provides evidence, it is termed inadequate or insufficient but mere allegations by Pakistani officials without providing a iota of proof is expected to be taken seriously.

If India were running such a large operation from within Afghanistan, surely NATO & ISAF must know about it unless they are totally incompetent.

Based on that, I could say that being present in Afghanistan, RAW must be totally incompetent if it did not have any intelligence assets in Swat, Balochistan and the Frontier. Bear in mind, this is Pakistan and India we are talking about. Hell even our freaking cricket matches have intelligence agents (joke - but I am sure you get the point).

BTW, you are surely not suggesting that the Taliban(Pakistan) is accepting support from Indians while fighting fellow muslims because they are not 'muslim' enough, are you?

Believe it or not, that is exactly what I am doing. I for one, don't think that the Taliban are very noble and observant of rights, wrongs etc. It is (to me atleast), highly likely that some of their top cadre may be sold or double agents. I am not ready to rule this out seeing as they are killing innocents left right and center - something that is in itself Unislamic. Obviously their whole Islam story is a political ploy; they have nothing to do with Islam.

Look , I cannot stop you from believing whatever you want but your arguments make little sense. Unlike the usual conspiracy theorists, you admit that LeT was incolved and then cast aspersions on the 26/11 attack . What are you suggesting? That RAW worked with the LeT to attack a major Indian city? The Americans have arrested two men of pakistani origin, one of whom has admitted to involvement in the planning of attack. So what's your take on David Headley? Ilyas Kashmiri has also been named as a planner of the 26/11 attack and he has been on record promising more such attacks. BTW, the Punjabi angle is meaningless unless you subscribe to Zaid Hamid's theory that " Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh - a Sikh!".

That RAW worked with the LeT to attack a major Indian city?

No, I am saying that they knew but did not do anything to stop it. There is a difference. However, inaction in this case is abetting.

The Americans have arrested two men of pakistani origin, one of whom has admitted to involvement in the planning of attack. So what's your take on David Headley? Ilyas Kashmiri has also been named as a planner of the 26/11 attack and he has been on record promising more such attacks.

I already agree that there is Pakistani involvement so don't really understand what you want me to say here.

BTW, the Punjabi angle is meaningless unless you subscribe to Zaid Hamid's theory that " Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh - a Sikh!".

Don't understand your point. Kindly elaborate.

This is unfortunately more of the usual conspiracy theory. First it makes the case that Karkare was some sort of lone ranger who was doing all these investigations on his own. Surely you know better than that. Karkare worked with a huge team under him and it was juniors doing the investigation. He also reported to more senior officers and to the political leadership. Without their support, where do you think he could have gone? He also had to deal with police forces of different states and with the army in investigating one of their own. Transfer orders are a lot easier than killing nearly 200 people to get him out of the scene. I don't know if you have watched HBO's "Terror in Mumbai" which actually gives you enough details on how Karkare died. He was killed by Kasab and his buddy alongside other senior officers. A policemen who was with Karkare and suffered injuries in that attack surviving only because he pretended to be dead was also interviewed. As i have said before there is nothing I or anyone else can say to convince you if you choose to believe otherwise.

Believe it or not, I have seen many 26/11 documentaries, listened to handler recordings and seen the Kasab confession etc. I know how Karkare died. I also know how the dispatch he called for somehow left the station but never arrived. How his bullet proof vest went missing. The point was to highlight that there are these doubts in the heads of Indians. Surely they are going to be present in the minds of Pakistanis.

Said by the Indian Home Minister and he is talking about one of the handlers of the 26/11 attacks who was in Pakistan. Admission as proof of hiding? C'mon.

Nope. But does point towards an initial (when 26/11 was still fresh) data mining bias. Did they not see it a year ago? Do you think that this is a piece of information of little consequence or what? He was a handler for God's sake. If a handler can be Indian, that introduces possibilities of Indian involvement at the highest levels. Wait. Let me guess. This is all conspiracy theorist talk.

Not going to dignify that with a response. Expected better from you.

I think you misunderstood my point here. It was almost as if you wanted to paint us as a terrorist state, (not that you wanted innocent people to be brutally murdered). Well you did push us into a corner, try to isolate us diplomatically, brand us a terrorist state and actually thought you could get away with surgical strikes.

As for the feeling you say that you have and which according to you is shared by many Pakistanis, there is nothing that India can do to make that feeling go away. That is a feeling that only you can make go away whenever you decide to change the glasses that cloud your vision.

There is a lot India can do. First off, try and make a congenial atmosphere for diplomatic exchange rather than breaking all lines of communication and cooperation. Second, you could perhaps try and pacify the Pakistani public and apologise for blaming Pakistan for everything. Terrorism has no religion, race or nationality. That is what we as Pakistanis believe. Did America start screaming at Saudis after 9/11 even though a majority of the attackers were Saudi? Did Pakistan start screaming at Uzbekistan and Tajikistan when their nationals were found on our soil? No. India is the only one out of these who blamed a whole nation for a few miscreants. Sad indeed. Third, you could make the peace process unconditional because then the terrorists won't win like they did last time. Fourth, never say never. There is always a possibility of more and I think its rather foolish to rule things out completely.

It is very sad that when one points out certain possibilities or disagrees with the norm, he is branded a 'conspiracy theorist'. But remember, it is always the sheep who believes everything he sees or hears on mass media without question. Do not forget the power of propaganda. If you tell a lie for long enough, everyone starts believing it.

Thank you for your time.

Don't mention it.

 

[SMC]

Just to make it clear, RAW terrorist agents wouldn't be showing themselves as RAW agents when they meet TTP. Doing otherwise is very risky and can get RAW caught in the act. What they would show themselves as would be other jihadis and terrorists.

There was also an article while ago talking about how someone from Purohit's group was learning Arabic to brainwash terrorists into fighting PA.

The argument is very simplistic and not a very good one.

 

[BJlaowai]

Karkare Episode – Few Relevant Questions (from kmsnews.org)



Another go at understanding 26/11 - dnaindia.com



And then.. there is this:

Just one question for you. Whose bullets killed inspector Karkare??

 

[Hulk]

I wonder if Karkare was such a big problem we could have got him transferred no need to kill.

 

[Bang Galore]

.

But remember, it is always the sheep who believes everything he sees or hears on mass media without question.

It sure is a crazy sheep who instead of looking for the wolf within blames everything on the the unseen,cunning Tiger. As the line of someone else's argument ran - it is all the tiger's fault anyway because the only reason you can't see him is because he poses as a sheep/wolf and never shows himself. Therefore the proof that the tiger is involved is the fact that you never find one. Go figure !

Do not forget the power of propaganda.

Could not agree more !

If you tell a lie for long enough, everyone starts believing it.

Yup !

 

[third eye]

In my opinion there will never be peace between India & Pak.

There may be periods of muted animosity with shows of bonhomie but no major change.

Unless of course economics takes over and achieves what the politicians, religious leaders & the armed forces have failed to do.

 

[Stumper]

In my opinion there will never be peace between India & Pak.

There may be periods of muted animosity with shows of bonhomie but no major change.

Unless of course economics takes over and achieves what the politicians, religious leaders & the armed forces have failed to do.

I agree, sadly. Unless you LET economics a chance, neither party have the mandate to give discounts to the other side on Kashmir.

 

[a.dagha]

Just one question for you. Whose bullets killed inspector Karkare??

Kasab and his terrorist buddy.

BUT.

Intelligence alerts treated casually: Pradhan panel
Tue-Dec 22, 2009
Mumbai / Press Trust of India

The Ram Pradhan Commission, which probed the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks, has observed that the intelligence alerts provided by Central agencies were treated “casually” and “mechanically forwarded” to operational units by the office of the Director General of Police (DGP), the Anti-Terrorist Squad (ATS) and the State's Home Department.

The Commission’s report, which was tabled in the Maharashtra Legislative Assembly on Monday, said the intelligence alerts were forwarded by the DGP office, sometimes with a semi-official letter.

It also noted that there was total confusion in the processing of intelligence alert at the state government level. The Chief Secretary normally passes the alerts from the Intelligence Bureau or Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) to the State Home Department.

Both Additional Chief Secretaries (Home) and Principal Secretary (Home) initially deposed before the panel that they had not received any intelligence inputs from the MHA.

My friend, it is not just enough to look at things simplistically. You have to see the chain of causation. Had these terrorists been dealt with in the appropriate manner, Karkare, Kamte etc. would still be alive, not to mention scores of other victims of that dreadful night.

If you leave your door open in the middle of the night and your neighbour's dog attacks your child, you are indeed responsible for a major portion of the blame. After that you can blame your neighbour all you want but the fact remains that you should have taken the appropriate steps. If you didn't, stop complaining.

 

[Pride]

Kasab and his terrorist buddy.

BUT.



My friend, it is not just enough to look at things simplistically. You have to see the chain of causation. Had these terrorists been dealt with in the appropriate manner, Karkare, Kamte etc. would still be alive, not to mention scores of other victims of that dreadful night.

If you leave your door open in the middle of the night and your neighbour's dog attacks your child, you are indeed responsible for a major portion of the blame. After that you can blame your neighbour all you want but the fact remains that you should have taken the appropriate steps. If you didn't, stop complaining.

Are you trying to suggest us to believe on ZH type Conspiracy theories? Sorry we refute...

yes we accept we had security flaws as and we are as repsonsible as these terrorists were for such terror attacks.. But what Karkare, Kamte and other martyred people did that time being part of ATS.. that was the way it has to be done..They martyred its our loss..

 

[a.dagha]

Are you trying to suggest us to believe on ZH type Conspiracy theories? Sorry we refute...

yes we accept we had security flaws as and we are as repsonsible as these terrorists were for such terror attacks..

errrmmm.. what were you refuting then?

And I wasn't suggesting any "ZH Type Conspiracy Theories", this is all apparently in YOUR Ram Pradhan Commission Report.

 

[Pride]

errrmmm.. what were you refuting then?

And I wasn't suggesting any "ZH Type Conspiracy Theories", this is all apparently in YOUR Ram Pradhan Commission Report.

I am refuting to see the things not simplistically and believeing this has been done to just kill Mr Karkare as suggested by Mr ZH and believed by many Pakistanis..

Regarding Ram Pradhan report, I accepted what were flaws. Here we are on same page..

 

[HariSeldon]

they did question ur investigation but didnt start crying about it to make sure that peace talks dont get affected.

You know that I was talking about the US evidence against Asif. Why you are misquoteing.

the way u are going about it is not correct at all. take it for both sides if u want to or else dont mention it.



RDX or IEDs a common person does not know the difference. wat the witness said was about the bag with the explosive material in it. a known fact is that investigation regarding SE was never completed

Which witness you are talking about? Samjhota Blast witness? Are you sure?
The link to purohit was RDX that he procured for malegaon blast. SE blast did not used RDX.
And the news item that you quoted, where does it says anything about linking Purohit with SE blast.

its clear from wat so ever investigation was going on that a hindu extremist group was involved in the bomb blast.

Which Investigation? SE blast Invetigation team never said any thing.

recent means after u put a stop to dialogue which will always give more force to organisations like LeT to lure youth against your atrocities in kashmir. however if you go before mumbai attacks when peace process was going well you will have to agree with me on the significant decrease in infiltration.

What happened when there was dialogue. We were attacked numerous time. Mumbai was not first. We had more than 4-5 blast in 2-3 years prior to 26/11. That didn;t stopped LeT. Only we didn't have any evidence for those. And PK never showed willingness to curb LeT during that time. 26/11 was on unprecedented level. We had evidence.
Now we had blast when we had CD. We had blast when we are not talking. In that case, I as citizen of India, support my Govt if CD is kept on back-burner.
For inflitration, you are saying that look I was creating trouble. Once you started talking there were less trouble for you. Well I call this blackmailing sir. Then sire, I am not interested in talking. I don't like giving in to blackmailers. There demands will never end.

And you know what, please keep beliving whatever you want. There is no point in discussing when other side is not litening. I asked again and again why GoP not questioned the UN directive regarding involvement of Asif. Even he is invovlved and somehow linked to Purohit, it was easier was GoP to follow the lead. Or otherwise prove the innocence of Asif in relation of SE blast. This is what looks a very logical step to follow.
But nobody in PK in interested in that.

There is a.dagga, raised points abt Karkare. And to make his points from article from KMS, known India Hater. No problem. But he never stopped and thought for second that why there own main stream media is not picking this up. Are they too controled by IN.

You guys keep mentioning Karkare and come up with all conspiracy theory. But failed to notice other accompanying officer who were killed that night. I suggest you lookup info of Vijay Salaskar. He was the gunslinger of Mumbai. He was the poster boy of crime branch. He was part of team who cleaned the steets of Mumbai from underworld. He was not part of ATS. Can you explain why he or others were killed that night?