India may sign interim deal for 18 Rafales, also deal for Aerial tanker

[duhastmish]

I'm not from China. I'm just curious which Chinese plane you claimed was copied from Russia.

Oh sorry then they are not copied they just invented the same design. From j11 j15 j16 or mig1.44 to their fifth gen. Even missile happened to meet same coincidence.

 

[SwAggeR]

India will not get TOT on the most critical tech. Not software codes or tech on building blades for the engine. But its more of TOT of assembly technology.

Are you CEO of Rafle ??

Dubastard , India have already developed crystal blade tech and rest of the techs India will aquire once this deal goes threw.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Are u GOD? have u seen the final papers of the contract? why the hell u and others are jumping the gun without knowing the fine print... the original terms and conditions asked for 18 directly from france and 108 under TOT and offset agreement.. If the government diverts from this and changes it a bit do u know how many bodies right from CAG to Vigilance to X committees would be dissecting and ripping them apart.. there would be CBI enquiries and PIL's and on top public opinions which would paint them as conspirators and make them lose electoral support from masses...

Having a bit of common sense and negotiation skills does not make you god.

The original terms and conditions also asked for ToT for a mentioned price. EVERYTHING is LINKED.

Who the fcuk cares if the cong. govt. is ripped apart, I am more concerned about our Nation and its people getting RIPPED OFF during Negotiation and left with holding limp dicks in our hands.

Be a little bit wise by having patience and wait for fine print.. have a little faith.. our politicians its true are a bit on bad side but they wont sell the country off.. lets wait for few more days when the fine print comes out..

P.s: Incase the so called TOT is waived and not given as per the original MMRCA guidelines, i assure u of supporting ur anger and will try and file a PIL also against the government..

LOL. There are multiple examples of our politicians selling of our country for the last 60+ years. Get real.

What good is the PIL when India is stuck with a legal contract and Rafale walks away withe money ? I suppose we can use the paper used in PIL as Toilet paper.

 

[faithfulguy]

Are you CEO of Rafle ??

Dubastard , India have already developed crystal blade tech and rest of the techs India will aquire once this deal goes threw.

India can make blades. But not the quality for Rafale engine. Otherwise, India wont have problem with kavari and need to turn it into a train engine, a UAV engine, a whatever engine. Anything but a jet engine.

India need this technology. And France will not teach India. To gain high end tech. There are no short cuts. You need to learn yourself. India should not be lazy and try to skip technical development.

 

[SwAggeR]

India can make blades. But not the quality for Rafale engine. Otherwise, India wont have problem with kavari and need to turn it into a train engine, a UAV engine, a whatever engine. Anything but a jet engine.

India need this technology. And France will not teach India. To gain high end tech. There are no short cuts. You need to learn yourself. India should not be lazy and try to skip technical development.

Engine and blade tech are two different techs.

Crystal blade is crystal blade and we use our own blades on MKI engines too. Now shoo away since you don't have any idea about deal .Your guesses are not good enough to carry forward the discussion.

 

[faithfulguy]

Engine and blade tech are two different techs.

Crystal blade is crystal blade and we use our own blades on MKI engines too. Now shoo away since you don't have any idea about deal .Your guesses are not good enough to carry forward the discussion.

So are all engine blades the same? Give me a break, stop making up things. You are the type of guys who believe that all antibiotics are the same. Or all democracy are the same. Such as Indian democracy are the same as western democracy.

 

[SwAggeR]

So are all engine blades the same? Give me a break, stop making up things. You are the type of guys who believe that all antibiotics are the same. Or all democracy are the same. Such as Indian democracy are the same as western democracy.

Any link which says MKI's blade are inferior to that of Rafael ??

 

[faithfulguy]

Any link which says MKI's blade are inferior to that of Rafael ??

The question you should ask is, can you put a MKI blade on a rafale engine? If not, than you don't know how to make a Rafale blade.

 

[Sugarcane]

Have you guys signed it or it''s still at "may" status?

 

[SwAggeR]

The question you should ask is, can you put a MKI blade on a rafale engine? If not, than you don't know how to make a Rafale blade.

Are you cat 5 idiot ?? We don't source blades for MKI from anywhere instead they are built inhouse from casting phase itself. Stronger blades can be used instead of weaker blades but weaker blades can't replace stronger blades. Was it really so difficult to understand ??Now don't troll without evidences. You have already earned enough cents for today.

 

[faithfulguy]

Are you cat 5 idiot ?? We don't source blades for MKI from anywhere instead they are built inhouse from casting phase itself. Stronger blades can be used instead of weaker blades but weaker blades can't replace stronger blades. Was it really so difficult to understand ??Now don't troll without evidences. You have already earned enough cents for today.

Are you an aerospace engineer to make that claim or you are just making s*it like this up? Knowing you, you are making it up. Unless you back up some research, what you are saying is hogwash.

 

[SwAggeR]

Are you an aerospace engineer to make that claim or you are just making s*it like this up? Knowing you, you are making it up. Unless you back up some research, what you are saying is hogwash.

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/TFApril2011.pdf

 

[faithfulguy]

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/2011/TFApril2011.pdf

Does is say that India can make blades for Rafale?

 

[SwAggeR]

Does is say that India can make blades for Rafale?

Better than needed for Rafale's requirement.

 

[sancho]

India does not seen to have realised that cutting-edge technology cannot be brought.

As if India is the only country in the world that is insisting on ToT based licence production deals in defence procurments. Turkey is doing it big time, S. Korea and even more so Japan are getting producing foreign stuff in their own countries under ToT and might add some capabilities and you really want to say that they didn't benefit from it?
The fact is, that is the best way to improve your industrial capabilities, since you get know how of the production of modern techs and systems, that otherwise would take you years to reach the same level. The difference is only, how much access to critical techs you have and how much the vendors are ready to provide. The US for example were always very limiting and gave even close partners only very less, while the Europeans always were more open. India had licence productions deals in the past too and they had proved to be good (Eurocopter helis, Jaguar and Mig fighters, Dornier 228 aircrafts...), but it was the MKI deal that got India at least some hands to more important techs and capabilities and since then, every new deal is negotiated with the aim to gain more and more benefits in return. The MMRCA is the tip of the iceberg if you want, since even the vendors stated, that they haven't faced a competition with so high ToT and offset requirements before, but all of them knew that the outcome is beneficiary for them too, which is why even the close ally of Pakistant, the US wanted to take their chances!
Wrt Rafale, Dassault and their partners had officially stated in the Brazilian and the M-MRCA, that full ToT and source codes of the AESA radar would be provided, we also know that Thales had formed JVs with Samtel and BEL for the production of HMS, TV and IRST channels, as well as the Damocles LDP, which means ToT of all these can be provided to India too, we also know that Snecma is offering the core of the upgraded M88 engine for Kaveri since years, including blade technology. Apart from that we knew that Eurojet was ready to provide us with blade and TVC technology too, if we had selected their engine for LCA MK2.
So it's a bit moot to still claim India could not get critical techs, when the fact is pretty different. The more important questions however would be, is Indian industry already able to "use" (not take advantage of) the ToT and how fast will the foreign vendors divert the ToT (MKI, Hawks, Scorpene, all examples were issues of diverting ToT delayed things too)?

At the end of the day, India will improve with the MMRCA deal, it already has! All the JVs that were created mainly wrt the MMRCA, or comparable defence deals created a lot of industry links in India and pushed the privat sector to participate stronger. So that alone makes it worth it, if IAF now gets one of the most advanced 4.5th gen fighters, it only makes the deal even better!