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India lost in Afghan endgame.

When has India ever won?, India lost in 1947 to Pakistan, broken in many pieces, lost most of Kashmir, India again Lost in 1962 against China, India lost in the Soviet-Afghan Jihad when it was supporting Soviet Russia, India lost badly in 1965 against Pakistan, India lost again to rejoin Bangladesh in 1971, India lost in 1999 kargil war, India was sorely defeated in Srilanka against Pakistan, when it was supporting tamil tigers, India lost hope in 2003 and even in 2008 stand off...India loosing is something a normal case now !!
 
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Ensuring Pakistan backed Taliban doesn't re-emerge in Afghanistan is winning for India... the general sentiment is India will lose and old allies of pakistan will come back to power...


Bro you are living in 1990s.

Please wake up.

Ghani guy is president and fully supported by Pakistan.

Yes there are Talib-iches to worry about.

But Pakistan's view is clearly with Ghani.


If Ghani forks up, then all bets are off. Only then India will loose and so will Pakistan.


It is 2014 for cryin out loud.
 
Bro you are living in 1990s.

Please wake up.

Ghani guy is president and fully supported by Pakistan.

Yes there are Talib-iches to worry about.

But Pakistan's view is clearly with Ghani.


If Ghani forks up, then all bets are off. Only then India will loose and so will Pakistan.


It is 2014 for cryin out loud.
That is exactly what the world has been crying out for years now, flush out Mullah omar, and AQ scum bags hiding in pakistan.
 
That is exactly what the world has been crying out for years now, flush out Mullah omar, and AQ scum bags hiding in pakistan.


Bro, you know me

I do not mince words.


World that you talk about can f@rt and cry and weep Modi style.

Pakistan was the main supply route and support system for all the efforts against commie and then Warlord $hit in Afghanistan.

This is all the while Indian leaders were sucking Russian D****.

So many armchair generals sit 1000s of miles away in the safety of computer chair and $hit and f@rt about stuff they have no forking idea.

AQ is scum for sure and so are the D**** suckers of yesteryears' commies.
 
World can f@rt and cry and weep Modi style.

Pakistan was the main supply route and support system for all the efforts against commie and then Warlord $hit in Afghanistan.

This is all the while Indian leaders were sucking Russian D****.

So many armchair generals sit 1000s of miles away in the safety of computer chair and $hit and f@rt about stuff they have no forking idea.

AQ is scum for sure and so are the D**** suckers of yesteryears' commies.

If you are so sure about yesteryear commies, why did pakistan actively fight against Massoud? wasn't he one of the mujhahideen, only because he was tajik, ISI had to kill him?

You can try to act as sanctimonious as you want as an individual, but your military establishment backed, funded, trained Mullah omar camp of taliban that you are very quick to either dis-associate from or proclaim as remnants of mujhahideens.

The fact remains that that truck load of logistical support including pre teen madrasa kids were sent to back Mullah Omars by your own military commander, against Massouds forces in 1994-96 not during soviet occupation.... The general belief is pakistan would like to have the same stability through it's proxies a few decades ago as it served it purposes perfectly... IC814 Hijacking as a simple example where the hijacker quickly dis-appeared from the kandahar, and resufaced in pakistan with impunity....
 
If you are so sure about yesteryear commies, why did pakistan actively fight against Massoud? wasn't he one of the mujhahideen, only because he was tajik, ISI had to kill him?

You can try to act as sanctimonious as you want as an individual, but your military establishment backed, funded, trained Mullah omar camp of taliban that you are very quick to either dis-associate from or proclaim as remnants of mujhahideens.

The fact remains that that truck load of logistical support including pre teen madrasa kids were sent to back Mullah Omars by your own military commander, against Massouds forces in 1994-96 not during soviet occupation.... The general belief is pakistan would like to have the same stability through it's proxies a few decades ago as it served it purposes perfectly... IC814 Hijacking as a simple example where the hijacker quickly dis-appeared from the kandahar, and resufaced in pakistan with impunity....


Common Bro

Accept that you don't know much about Afghanistan, and just doing time-waste shoveling indo-$hit in Pakistani forums.

Please continue.
 
India lost in Afghan endgame

By Kanwal Sibal

Issue Courtesy: Mail Today | Date : 27 Aug , 2013

The situation in Afghanistan is full of uncertainties and the prospects of India’s neighbourhood becoming even more difficult for us are real. We have little control over the situation in Afghanistan, however popular we may be with its government and people. We have invested considerable political and financial capital in Afghanistan for protecting our longer term interests in the region, but adequate returns are not guaranteed.

Afghanistan has been a conflict zone for over three decades now. To our misfortune it became a cold war battleground between the Soviet Union and the US, with the result that both an extremist version of Islam and Pakistan became powerful actors in shaping developments there under the US lead. Until then, Pakistan was not a dominant factor in Afghanistan internally and externally. Later, as US attention moved towards Iraq, Pakistan saw an opportunity to control Afghanistan strategically by using Islamic fanaticism embodied by the Taliban as a tool.

Hare & Hounds

The deliberate Islamisation of Pakistan by Zia-ul-Haq prepared a favourable ground for the creation of the Taliban under Benazir Bhutto’s civilian government. The nurturing of extremist religious groups by the Pakistan military for terrorist attacks against India was another facet of the growing Islamization of Pakistan’s society and the practical use of these forces for political ends, as in Afghanistan’s case.

Religious fanatics in our region gained further force with Al Qaida’s entry on the back of the Taliban. These forces overplayed their hand in attacking the US on September 11, inviting an American military riposte that ousted the Taliban from power. That Osama Laden got refuge in Pakistan for many years in different places points to the existence of an effective network of Islamist cells in Pakistan, which raises concerns for the future. When, with Taliban’s ouster, US attention turned towards Iraq for the second time, Pakistan once again saw an opportunity to regain its lost ground in Afghanistan through the Taliban groups it continued sheltering on its territory.

With Taliban groups targeting NATO forces from safe-havens in Pakistan, US pressure on Pakistan to control these groups was inevitable. This exposed the inherent contradiction in Pakistan’s posture on religious extremism and terrorism, with the Pakistan state and society, at one level, nurturing these forces, while, at another level, acting against them under external constraint. This policy of running with the hare and hunting with the hound has exposed Pakistan to accusations of duplicity and double-faced policies by its western supporters, a discovery India made years earlier. But this awakening has not brought about any drastic change in the West’s handling either of Pakistan per se or its destabilizing ambitions in Afghanistan.

The Third Time

The irony from India’s point of view is that having fortified the virus of Islamism in the region and then having combated it at great human, financial and military cost, the US and the West are once again reaching out to the same forces, this time not to defeat a cold war rival but to cover up their own retreat with a veneer of semi-success. The accommodation of the Taliban in the mid-1990s was for immediate economic allurements, with no concern that such obscurantist forces would spread terror to the US. The US overlooked the problematic aspects of Pakistan’s conduct because of tepid India-US relations. Pakistan was a useful balancing factor.

Today India and the US have a strategic partnership. The US has a grand vision of linking Central Asia and South Asia through a new silk road, with energy projects like TAPI as a centre-piece. It seems to want to repeat its previous mis-reading of Taliban’s Islamic fanaticism by believing that its commitment to break links with Al Qaida would protect the US from future terrorist attacks. This will be the third time that the US will take Afghanistan off its radar screen, benefiting once again the Taliban with its religious ideology and Pakistan with its strategic ambitions while compromising India’s interests despite the so-called transformation of India-US ties.

In a hard place

India will be hard put to secure its interests in Afghanistan in the conditions under which the US intends to withdraw. The Afghan security forces may be able to prevent an outright Taliban military victory, but providing security all over the country against Taliban depredations would be outside their capacity, given their present ability to stage terrorist attacks even in highly protected areas such as Kabul. Sending more security personnel to protect our projects is not a solution.

Though we have a strategic partnership agreement with Afghanistan that provides also for arms support, even if we were to step up our training assistance considerably and provide some combat equipment, it would not substitute for the Afghan army’s lack of air support, heavy weaponry and intelligence capability. Pakistan is determined to neutralize India’s influence in Afghanistan, as the attack on our Jalalabad consulate indicates unfortunately. It is allergic to the idea of an India-friendly Afghan government. It finds it intolerable that we train Afghan military officers in India when their offers to provide such training are being rebuffed. Nawaz Sharif has begun voicing the charge that India is behind some disturbances in Pakistan.

We can help reduce the threats to Afghanistan’s internal stability in consultation with Iran, Russia and the Central Asian states. China cannot be relied upon because in any scenario it will be with Pakistan and leverage its influence with the Taliban to protect Chinese interests. Pakistan is central to China’s strategy to economically exploit Afghanistan and link it and neighbouring Central Asian states to its upgraded Karakoram highway connected to Gwadar. All in all, our stakes in Afghanistan are high but our means to protect them insufficient and uncertain.

India lost in Afghan endgame » Indian Defence Review
USA and NATO failed in Afghanistan these Indians in their right mind thought they had any chance in Afghanistan Afghans love to hunt enemies off Islam and the moment USA and NATO runs away all fighters focus will be taking on India you failed from day one
 
problem with india's strategy was that they thought a policy of encirclement against Pakistan would work....they brushed shoulders with the wrong people and paid for it dearly (their defense attache, a brigadier was taken out)

northern alliance is now no longer in power - with karzai the emotionally unstable twat out of the picture, and rabidly anti-Pakistan individuals like Amrullah Saleh having their entire careers destroyed

Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul (a former DG-ISI) once stated that Fear is No Policy, Surrender is no Option....When your moral cause is right, you know that you are righteous. STAND FIRM.

That's what Pakistan has done vis-a-vis Afghanistan and it will pay dividends in the end. It has been a rough road though no doubt and costs have been incurred. Huge costs. But in the end, on the strategic battlefield or chess board or whatever you want to call it - Pakistan will come out stronger and the odds will be ever in our favour.

the indians however and their designs - a failed strategy, billions wasted for nothing. Through actions they wanted to bully and subjugate Pakistan the way they did with Nepal or Sri Lanka....but it will have back-fired in their faces
 
problem with india's strategy was that they thought a policy of encirclement against Pakistan would work....they brushed shoulders with the wrong people and paid for it dearly (their defense attache, a brigadier was taken out)

northern alliance is now no longer in power - with karzai the emotionally unstable twat out of the picture, and rabidly anti-Pakistan individuals like Amrullah Saleh having their entire careers destroyed

Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul (a former DG-ISI) once stated that Fear is No Policy, Surrender is no Option....When your moral cause is right, you know that you are righteous. STAND FIRM.

That's what Pakistan has done vis-a-vis Afghanistan and it will pay dividends in the end. It has been a rough road though no doubt and costs have been incurred. Huge costs. But in the end, on the strategic battlefield or chess board or whatever you want to call it - Pakistan will come out stronger and the odds will be ever in our favour.

the indians however and their designs - a failed strategy, billions wasted for nothing. Through actions they wanted to bully and subjugate Pakistan the way they did with Nepal or Sri Lanka....but it will have back-fired in their faces
Billions well invested, In schools, colleges, Hospitals and roads, unlike pakistan which invested in other assets which I wont mention...

As far as saleh is concerned, he is still in better situation than the ex-president of pakistan whom he openly criticized...
 
Hare & Hounds

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at one level, nurturing these forces, while, at another level, acting against them under external constraint. This policy of running with the hare and hunting with the hound has exposed Pakistan to accusations of duplicity and double-faced policies by its western supporters,

Curiously - the Americans/NATO undertook the EXACT same policy. "Good" vs. "bad" taleban phenomenon is very much something they had adopted as well. Proof of that is when the ISI arrested Mullah Baradar after armed agents tore his door down during a raid. It was Karzai and certain policy circles in America that raised a hue and cry over it since they felt arresting this man would derail peace-talks between Karzai the puppet of Kabul and the taleban.

So in that sense - there was "duplicity" on alll sides, if the word duplicity must be used in this context

With less leverage in an undesirable environment I'd say we played our cards well

Billions well invested, In schools, colleges, Hospitals and roads, unlike pakistan which invested in other assets which I wont mention..

It's okay don't be shy.

--Most successful professionals in today’s Afghan society studied in Pakistan. They dominate the work place not only in government offices, international organizations and NGOs but also as professionals, businessmen, and skilled and semi-skilled workers.

--Afghan graduates from Pakistani universities are paid significantly higher salaries than graduates from any other neighboring country.

--Pakistan is further providing 2,000 fully funded graduate and post-graduate scholarships to Afghan students in its institutions of higher learning over the next four years. The placements are being made in ten different fields from medicine to IT to agriculture. The first batch of the students under this programme had already left for Pakistan early this year.

--Providing consistent and across the board education and capacity building opportunities is Pakistan’s greatest gift to the people of Afghanistan and it is considered so innate that it is hardly mentioned in any discourse in Kabul. Of course the propaganda artists (with their vested interests) hide this "shameful" statistic from their youth

--Another important area where Pakistan has been of unlimited help to the people of Afghanistan is healthcare. Afghans are provided free medical care in Pakistan’s government hospitals, a facility that is not even available to a chunk of our own nationals!!

--Over 90 percent of Afghans who seek medical treatment abroad visit Pakistan. Most of the Afghan patients opt for free treatment at government or philanthropic healthcare facilities. Moneyed Afghan patients are welcomed by many countries but for their less fortunate compatriots only Pakistan has kept its doors opened.

--40 percent of patients in Peshawar’s major government hospitals and 11 percent patients in tertiary hospitals all over Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province are Afghans; over 50 percent patients in major government hospitals in Quetta are Afghan nationals; and two Pakistani philanthropic hospitals perform free eye surgeries on about 30,000 Afghans every year.

--Since 2001, Pakistan has also played an active, but unpublicized, role in Afghanistan’s reconstruction and providing humanitarian assistance.

Following are some of the major assistance projects which Pakistan had completed, or about to complete:

1. A state of the art Allama Iqbal Faculty at Kabul University is completed.
2. As a separate project, the Government of Pakistan is furnishing the Iqbal Faculty building.
3. The building of Sir Syed Science Faculty Block is near completion in Nangarhar University, Jalalabad.
4. The structure of Liaqat Ali Khan Engineering Faculty in Balkh University, Mazar-e-Sharif is almost complete.
5. Rehman Baba High School in Kabul was completed, where 1200 students are currently enrolled.
6. As another project on the same campus, hostel for 1000 students is under construction.
7. Donated buses for the students of Kabul University.
8. A sprawling Jinnah Hospital Complex with ten towers is under construction in Kabul. It will provide the most modern health facility in the country.
9. Civil work on Nishter Kidney Hospital in Jalalabad is completed. Afghan doctors, paramedics and technicians to run this facility are also trained in Pakistan.
10. A 200 bed Naib Aminullah Khan Logari Hospital is under construction in Logar.
11. Donated mobile field hospitals and ambulances to several provinces.
12. Construction of Torkham-Jalalabad Road in eastern Afghanistan is completed.
13. On request of the Afghan Government, Pakistan has undertaken to convert Torkham-Jalalabad road in a dual carriage highway. About 60 percent work is already completed on this project.
14. Built three intra-city roads in Jalalabad.
15. Provided earth-moving and road building machinery to various provinces.
16. Donated fifty buses for public transportation.
17. Provided cash assistance to the Afghan Government.
18. Distributed food packages to the needy and school supplies to students in large numbers.

Several other major projects, including two Eye Hospitals, Limb Centre at Badakhshan, two Nuclear Medical Centers in Kabul and Jalalabad, are either ongoing or in the pipeline.

:coffee:



As far as saleh is concerned, he is still in better situation than the ex-president of pakistan whom he openly criticized...

he lives in hiding in Panjsher and only leaves town when the Hudson Institute or some third-rate conference takes place for him to peddle his usual lines

a former warlord turned intelligence chief who is now a peasant in hiding. Yeah, sounds like a great situation to me
 
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he lives in hiding in Panjsher and only leaves town when the Hudson Institute or some third-rate conference takes place for him to peddle his usual lines

a former warlord turned intelligence chief who is now a peasant in hiding. Yeah, sounds like a great situation to me
Was he arrested by Afghanistan?
 
@Horus

What does winning in afganistan looks like?

View attachment 122282


or

View attachment 122283



If this is winning to you, let me be the first to congratulate you



Ensuring Pakistan backed Taliban doesn't re-emerge in Afghanistan is winning for India... the general sentiment is India will lose and old allies of pakistan will come back to power...


Dude that was BEFORE strategic depth and we supported them because you were arming Ahmad Shah Mehsud to tip the balance of power as you are doing now with ANA. Even the Talibs have been told that they need to give up the good old armed strategy and resort to political representation.
 
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