India knocks Russia's door again for FGFA.

[The Accountant]

The Tempest is not a deviation from other similar programs, including AMCA and FCAS. All these jets will be powered by similar engines.

In India, ADA has defined the AMCA as a 5.5th gen jet. And the 6th gen will come with hypersonic capability, which will replace the MKI after 2050. We also have other unmanned projects after the IUSAV is completed.

Rafale and FGFA will likely be the last jets we import. One private Indian company in fact is working towards cutting out a significant number of Rafales from the equation as well.

Not even usa is claiming 6th generation to be hypersonic ... From where are you claiming a fighter jet to be hypersonic ?

 

[punit]

LOL clever Russia. Their think tanks brought Pakistan in it to blackmail India

So what you Gained ?

 

[The Accountant]

Mi35
Rd93 enginea and
export of burnol

So what you Gained ?

 

[Storm Force]

Russians CAN KEEP their JUNK FGFA

We are buying Rafales

 

[punit]

Mi35
Rd93 enginea and
export of burnol

Rd 93 is in use since 1st FC-1 what's new in this..
MI deal is also age old..Keep.burnol stock for own use..SU 35 aane wale hain !! @Zarvan

 

[Shamsher1990]

Rafael is stealthy ... What are you smoking man ... its really hard stuff ...

It is due to its size and counter-measures . Also, specially with its self protection package, SPECTRA, it makes getting an aim on it really hard.

 

[Shamsher1990]

Mi35
Rd93 enginea and

Its only Mi-35.
RD93 is re-exported from China. Plus you have moved away from RD93 to WS-13 or so. I doubt you have received anything major. Till now.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russians CAN KEEP their JUNK FGFA

We are buying Rafales

That's right. Rafale is replacement of Mirage 2000. That means Rafale is 5th gen fighter. Who needs Russians when you got French? Ha! Think about it? France got Descartes, Pascal, Fermat, Lagrange, Laplace, Ampere, Coulomb. What scientists do Russia got? Nobody. Russia compared to France is 3rd world compared to 1st world.

 

[randomradio]

Not even usa is claiming 6th generation to be hypersonic ... From where are you claiming a fighter jet to be hypersonic ?

My point is what Basel called 6th gen Tempest, according to ADA it's 5.5th gen.

No one knows yet if the Americans will go for hypersonic capability or not. No one knows if PCA and F-X are in fact two different programs.

And the Russians define 6th gen as hypersonic or near-hypersonic jets capable of achieving near space altitudes. That's how they are designing the Mig-41. If the Russians make such an aircraft, then Tempest, FCAS, AMCA etc will all be 5.5th gen jets, which is according to ADA's definition.

So cool your horses, if Tempest becomes 6th gen, then the Mig-41 will become 7th gen. But defining Tempest as 6th gen is just marketing coming in to play, it's not based on technical specs. A generation gap should generally have asymmetric capabilities between newer and older generation aircraft. If you put VCE and unified avionics on the F-22, it will become competitive with the Tempest. That's not a generation gap.

 

[Shamsher1990]

That's right. Rafale is replacement of Mirage 2000. That means Rafale is 5th gen fighter. Who needs Russians when you got French? Ha! Think about it? France got Descartes, Pascal, Fermat, Lagrange, Laplace, Ampere, Coulomb. What scientists do Russia got? Nobody. Russia compared to France is 3rd world compared to 1st world.

Its not a question of France vs Russia. Its more the question of which fighters can India invest in to trust it with its national security. India has a finite fund after all. Best case would have been India developing these fighters themselves. But India is not having enough Science & Tech chops for it. So, they will like to partner with a country which does not hang around with China too much as far as military tech goes AND the country which is a reliable partner in supplying military tech and platforms. France is the answer.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

France is the answer.

Maybe. But we Chinese trust no one. Not France. NO one. We Chinese only trust ourselves. That's why we Chinese make everything ourselves. Every nut. Every bolt. Every wire.

 

[Shamsher1990]

Maybe. But we Chinese trust no one. Not France. NO one. We Chinese only trust ourselves. That's why we Chinese make everything ourselves. Every nut. Every bolt. Every wire.

Nope you don't.
Allow me to explain.
1. When you write firmware/avionics for your platforms, it is compiled using compilers and runtime libraries developed in USA/derived from US code/algos. It is a point at which a vulnerability can be injected. No one is developing tool chains from scratch, no even Chinese.

2. When you design a chip, it will be placed and routed / net-list generated / synthesized using US tools because there are none other. Again specific vulnerabilities can be introduced.

3. When your cryptographers design security protocols and encryption algos for your defence products, they re-use a lot of research done by US researchers. Again, US researchers have a longer experience with these ideas and definitely will have secrets that no one in the world ever knows.

This was just a basic list. So, don't even think that Chinese designs and implementation are absolutely secure OR absolutely new or homemade. To be absolutely sure, you will have to discard almost all of the ground work which happened in USA since 1950s or so.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Maybe. But we Chinese trust no one. Not France. NO one. We Chinese only trust ourselves. That's why we Chinese make everything ourselves. Every nut. Every bolt. Every wire.

And copycat almost all fighter from Russia to Mig-17 (J-5) to Su-27/Su-30 ( J-11/J-16) @undertakerwwefan

 

[The Accountant]

My point is what Basel called 6th gen Tempest, according to ADA it's 5.5th gen.

No one knows yet if the Americans will go for hypersonic capability or not. No one knows if PCA and F-X are in fact two different programs.

And the Russians define 6th gen as hypersonic or near-hypersonic jets capable of achieving near space altitudes. That's how they are designing the Mig-41. If the Russians make such an aircraft, then Tempest, FCAS, AMCA etc will all be 5.5th gen jets, which is according to ADA's definition.

So cool your horses, if Tempest becomes 6th gen, then the Mig-41 will become 7th gen. But defining Tempest as 6th gen is just marketing coming in to play, it's not based on technical specs. A generation gap should generally have asymmetric capabilities between newer and older generation aircraft. If you put VCE and unified avionics on the F-22, it will become competitive with the Tempest. That's not a generation gap.

I. Replying to your particular post which is incorrect ...
I agree on tempest being 5.5 but 6th generation fighter aircrafts are not going to be hypersonic ... Mig41 is attack aircraft at max that is to counter something like blackbird ... Hypersonic planes cannot fly within atmosphere and cannot be a fighter aircrafts as they will be huge in size, will be much hot for heat seaking weapons and cant be stealthy ...
6th generation key characteristic are
pilot less fighter aircraft
capable of extreme manuver i.e. much higher than 9Gs and
much more integrated battle space like aegis system ...
AI aid to pilots (even if it is in drone mode)
Use of energy weapons ...

 

[The Accountant]

Its only Mi-35.
RD93 is re-exported from China. Plus you have moved away from RD93 to WS-13 or so. I doubt you have received anything major. Till now.

Re-export is being done with permission from russia ... Furthermore we are also in talk with russia for setting up overhaul facility of rd93 ...
Even mi35 is significant considering our relationship with india ... Lot of other items are on offer ...