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India Is Buying 36 Rafale Fighters from France (and Pakistan Should Worry)

You are confused ... your arguments are bassed on support from aerostat and ground based radar and attacking formation ... and i thought you are aware enough to understand war is never about one asset against others ... so you are telling me that you will be using your ground radars and aerostat radar whereas radiation emitting fixed hostile assets within 200kms of both side of the border will be first to be taken care through artilery, anti radiation missiles and PGM ... and noone sane will place these assets near to border unless achieved air superirority ... so your intruding aircrafts will all be on there own ... support from AWACS and and other ground based assets will be next to nothing ...

Again let me remind you we are discussing scenario in which you have to come to Pakistan air space and not the other way around which is clearly evident from the doctrine of both the air forces ....

Secondly kindly dont tell me that you beileve that MKI can jam APG 68 ... APG 68 is state of art radar with his own anti jamming and EW suits ... i dont want to derail the argument so stop this non sense argument here otherwise I can also claim that radar of MKI will be jammed by F16s ...

Furthermore BVR fight is always more about RCS ... radar is your eye you can take on a target if you can see that through radar ... and you cant take on if you cant see as there is no visual way of bvr ...

Regarding taking on our aircrafts ... listen you are intruding force you have no assets in the area other than your aircraft and satellite image which is useless in such an attack ... you dont know which airbase and which aircrafts are ordered to scramble to defend against you ... infact if there is an aircraft coming from behind with radar switched off you will not even know unless he gets you locked within visiual range ...

If you try to bring in awacs within 200 km range of pakistani borders than it will be easy to attack and beyond that range awacs will be useless due to small rcs of Pakistani planes ...

Remember there is a reason pakistan concieved jf17 thunder at the time india procured mki ... for pakistan small and nibble aircrafts are way to go to deploy shoot and scoot capabilities ...

I am not saying that mki is a bad aircraft ... what i am saying that f16 and thunders has its plus point and strong edge whereas mki has its own ... in an intruding engagement f16s and thunder will have definite edge due to small nimble aircrafts getting support lot of other resources ....
And, you always put an ECM device on-board. Don't know anything about others, but the Turkish folks have mastered this "foiling the enemy signals" technique and taken it to an art level!!! I won't be surprised if they share some of their "deadly" algorithms with Pak folks and learn from each other. I am pretty sure Pak folks love this "hacking" trade and have a chest full of their own "hidden" tricks!!!!
 
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So by your reckoning paf will lose fifty falcons for three hundred mki migs and mirages.

I admire the confidence or is it face saving bravado

These falcons are fairly old machines there nothing like the Sufi falcons of Israel or block 60 of uae or f16v of USA
Invade and check your losses in real.case close
 
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And, you always put an ECM device on-board. Don't know anything about others, but the Turkish folks have mastered this "foiling the enemy signals" technique and taken it to an art level!!! I won't be surprised if they share some of their "deadly" algorithms with Pak folks and learn from each other. I am pretty sure Pak folks love this "hacking" trade and have a chest full of their own "hidden" tricks!!!!
Kuddos my friend ... this is bound to happen a greater alliance of muslim countires in which turkey and pakistan will be playing key role ...
 
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Do wish to explain HOW ????????

You have 150 F7 & 100 Mirages 3/5 = That's 250 obsolete vintage fighters from a total fleet of 370 planes

Your inducting 10 new Thunders per year since 2009 ie 80 Thunders in 8 Years

You cannot afford any new F16/52 as per recent events on 8 new block 52 which you pulled out of

You have signed for nothing else ... YES WE KNOW lots of evaluation.

My maths says it will take you 15 - 20 years to replace your F7 & Mirage fleet based on current induction of thunders alone . I cant use anything else as you have no more deals signed

INDIA

Has 120 mig21 bison need replacing

All other migs ie 23/27 mig21 have already gone

That leaves 450 su30mki/mirage2000/ mig29 & jaguars which are not being phased out

in other words india has far more modern fleet of fighters relative to PAF even today

AND

INDIA is still license building 16 mki per year until 2019
inducting 36 rafale over next 4 years
inducting 123 tejas at 8 planes per year rising to 12 planes post 2020

SO I ASK AGAIN how you replaing your obsolete fighters on 8 thunders per year
Ignorant indian ,we are manufacturing 16 planes now per year not like you semi knockdown kits of su30 mki with used engine as per your own country's news leaked.secondly if we will built a new production line then we can double the production to reach over 36 per year. And your biggest joke teeja which is not acceptable for your own air force,teeja the dalit of indian air force.and who knows we are already in journey of NGF with J31 or TFX so hold your horses wait and see after the induction of rafale what reaction we will give that will be befitted response like nuclear programme,missile and tanks and aircraft self programmes not like your country to write brahmos on russian missle.we have better R&D in millitary production than you.thanx
 
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F15K and F15E of the USA saudi Israel.Japan and south Korea must be rubbish because like the su30mki they have large Rcs when loaded with eight bvrs.

Same thing for J11 J16 if China they too must be rubbish

And in contrast tejss must. Be amazing to Ss it is small compsite airframe

Let's ignore
Radars
Ew suites
Jsmmers
Weapons
Range
Fuel
Tvc engines
Inst tracking system
Hms and hobs combo


Let's just concentrate on Rcs
 
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india is only getting 36 rafale's 2 squadrons, they will be split up in two bases in the east and west, and will be used to launch strategic weapons.

if the navy buys the rafale-m them they will need a catobar carrier which is a $7+ billion investment and that will swallow a huge chunk of funding for the navy. leaving no roof to purchase more convention frigates, destroyers mine sweepers etc......

from 126 with some being built india, to 36 with a guarantee of more orders for local producion with a private partner. to now 36 being purchased directly.

how badly things have fallen is just astonishing
 
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india is only getting 36 rafale's 2 squadrons, they will be split up in two bases in the east and west, and will be used to launch strategic weapons.

if the navy buys the rafale-m them they will need a catobar carrier which is a $7+ billion investment and that will swallow a huge chunk of funding for the navy. leaving no roof to purchase more convention frigates, destroyers mine sweepers etc......

from 126 with some being built india, to 36 with a guarantee of more orders for local producion with a private partner. to now 36 being purchased directly.

how badly things have fallen is just astonishing
well now they are playing the same song/script with single jet title
 
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You are confused ... your arguments are bassed on support from aerostat and ground based radar and attacking formation ... and i thought you are aware enough to understand war is never about one asset against others ... so you are telling me that you will be using your ground radars and aerostat radar whereas radiation emitting fixed hostile assets within 200kms of both side of the border will be first to be taken care through artilery, anti radiation missiles and PGM ... and noone sane will place these assets near to border unless achieved air superirority ... so your intruding aircrafts will all be on there own ... support from AWACS and and other ground based assets will be next to nothing ...

Again let me remind you we are discussing scenario in which you have to come to Pakistan air space and not the other way around which is clearly evident from the doctrine of both the air forces ....

Secondly kindly dont tell me that you beileve that MKI can jam APG 68 ... APG 68 is state of art radar with his own anti jamming and EW suits ... i dont want to derail the argument so stop this non sense argument here otherwise I can also claim that radar of MKI will be jammed by F16s ...

Furthermore BVR fight is always more about RCS ... radar is your eye you can take on a target if you can see that through radar ... and you cant take on if you cant see as there is no visual way of bvr ...

Regarding taking on our aircrafts ... listen you are intruding force you have no assets in the area other than your aircraft and satellite image which is useless in such an attack ... you dont know which airbase and which aircrafts are ordered to scramble to defend against you ... infact if there is an aircraft coming from behind with radar switched off you will not even know unless he gets you locked within visiual range ...

If you try to bring in awacs within 200 km range of pakistani borders than it will be easy to attack and beyond that range awacs will be useless due to small rcs of Pakistani planes ...

Remember there is a reason pakistan concieved jf17 thunder at the time india procured mki ... for pakistan small and nibble aircrafts are way to go to deploy shoot and scoot capabilities ...

I am not saying that mki is a bad aircraft ... what i am saying that f16 and thunders has its plus point and strong edge whereas mki has its own ... in an intruding engagement f16s and thunder will have definite edge due to small nimble aircrafts getting support lot of other resources ....
1.is that only you have anty raditaion missiles , PGMs and arttilerry with smart laser guided shell's

2. yes long range BVR game in todays arena is a mix of ground sensors helping fighters in tandem with AWACS and yes as things are a PHALCON flying over say 100 miles inside indian airspace can still jann any PAF APG-68 radar and so can a MKI flying 80 Na miles away from a PAF Blk 52 approx thats why despite ISAF best argument in all pervious red falg engagements we dint switch on BARS IBRIS -E hybrid radar of MKI nor did we switch on its complex jamming suites (MKI radar is a hybrid PESA/AESA cross with a peak power out put well over 8 KWA wile peak power output of your APG68 ois not over 1.68 KWA rest talk to any radar expert you like he will tell you difference between a PESA hybrid and a pulse doppler SAR MMR... the type of which latest gen we have on tejas called EL-M.2032)

3. no RCS is two small for a multi band PESA 2D & 3D and a AESA newrok in an overlaping configuration when your assets and airbases are just 50-80 miles away from the border and that too on a plain grass land type georaphical area only the srghoda one is beyond mountains i guess

4. we dont just have long range BVRs but also very long range surface to air missiles also and a SAT based SAR radar scnanning capabilty that sees through clouds /day & night and even thick smog so you cant hide your missile lainchers or fighter jets then there are ground assets

5. and when we start tracking a fighter taking off loaded with missiles what do ou think we will do dont we have fighters ready round the clock and dont you have to keep yur fighters in maintenece ?

6.tell me what do you think what kinds of long range arsenell BVRs we got from Israel , France , russia and now USA will we tell bout them all in public when its know we are one of the largest arms buyers in the world ... guess what we were buyng all these year :azn:

7.in war al means used to hurt the enemy are fair and since your prime fighter is F16 what stops us from hacking its bugs since we now have access to many things which we never had ... rest sir you keep speculating

but make no mistake BVR game or any other arial fight PAF cannot even dream to match IAF either in quwality or quwantity and PAF top honchos know it

now we just dont have MKI but also upgraded M2K and Fulkrums, jaguars and bisons all of whome can fire very long range BVRs like Derby , I Derby ER , Magic or MICA , R77 type or Python 5 VWR so what can or will you do against them all cause they wont come alone they will come in formations with AWACS blinding or trying to hack jamm your ground & arial from background in tandem with massive jammers on board on MKI & Fulkrums and M2Ks while passive long range BVRs & AWACS killer KS-172 type missles taking out your AWACS we can do that and we will do that cause for doing it we wont have to cross the border as our artilerry will be shelling relenlessly and our AWACS & Fighters would still be in our Airspace as we have long range capability

and yes your PAF knows this fact too so sir please its not just about RCS alone there are many many things and thats why people like @MastanKhan keep saying try having very long range twin engined boimbers with massive AESA radars and semi -limited stealth capabilty (electrinic like SPECTRA on rafale) so to cheat enemy radars thats why USA is investing trillions in stealth tech they are not fools neither are chinese who despite aal the hardships are still investing in stealth tech

so sir read again so called BVR combat in modern era is not about just pilot skills any more lolss F35 for 80% of its combat missons fly on autopilot its when its git 360 degrees all aspect off bore sight capabilty and next gen JHMCS with smart HMD and all kinds of elecronic warfaare suites you can imagine with a super computer as its master brain flying and managing it

in short BVR combat is not about RCS alone & we have much much better and much much more than is told to you kid have a nice day
 
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well now they are playing the same song/script with single jet title
the navy rejected the lca but still encourages hal or ada to continue development.

Indians were buying some 125 Rafales from French, Pakistan should have worried then!
but there not, its only 36 there buying . 2 batteries of a300's will lay waste to the base which holds the rafale on the western front.
 
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the navy rejected the lca but still encourages hal or ada to continue development.


but there not, its only 36 there buying . 2 batteries of a300's will lay waste to the base which holds the rafale on the western front.
navy has rejected the carrier version as it had to heavy landing gear which needed to be rectified as it dint left much weight for the extra fuel & ordenence required for the job on hand on a carrier deck NLCA was good for ground based duties only hence was rejected but with new LM help landing gear being developed for MK1A version which is said to be 500Kg lighter it just might get selected just stay tuned sirji ;) :tup:
 
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navy has rejected the carrier version as it had to heavy landing gear which needed to be rectified as it dint left much weight for the extra fuel & ordenence required for the job on hand on a carrier deck NLCA was good for ground based duties only hence was rejected but with new LM help landing gear being developed for MK1A version which is said to be 500Kg lighter it just might get selected just stay tuned sirji ;) :tup:
but it was beefed up as there was a incident with the landing gear.
20160102221455_1.jpg

and that alone cant have added enough weight for it to be rejected
 
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1.is that only you have anty raditaion missiles , PGMs and arttilerry with smart laser guided shell's

2. yes long range BVR game in todays arena is a mix of ground sensors helping fighters in tandem with AWACS and yes as things are a PHALCON flying over say 100 miles inside indian airspace can still jann any PAF APG-68 radar and so can a MKI flying 80 Na miles away from a PAF Blk 52 approx thats why despite ISAF best argument in all pervious red falg engagements we dint switch on BARS IBRIS -E hybrid radar of MKI nor did we switch on its complex jamming suites (MKI radar is a hybrid PESA/AESA cross with a peak power out put well over 8 KWA wile peak power output of your APG68 ois not over 1.68 KWA rest talk to any radar expert you like he will tell you difference between a PESA hybrid and a pulse doppler SAR MMR... the type of which latest gen we have on tejas called EL-M.2032)

3. no RCS is two small for a multi band PESA 2D & 3D and a AESA newrok in an overlaping configuration when your assets and airbases are just 50-80 miles away from the border and that too on a plain grass land type georaphical area only the srghoda one is beyond mountains i guess

4. we dont just have long range BVRs but also very long range surface to air missiles also and a SAT based SAR radar scnanning capabilty that sees through clouds /day & night and even thick smog so you cant hide your missile lainchers or fighter jets then there are ground assets

5. and when we start tracking a fighter taking off loaded with missiles what do ou think we will do dont we have fighters ready round the clock and dont you have to keep yur fighters in maintenece ?

6.tell me what do you think what kinds of long range arsenell BVRs we got from Israel , France , russia and now USA will we tell bout them all in public when its know we are one of the largest arms buyers in the world ... guess what we were buyng all these year :azn:

7.in war al means used to hurt the enemy are fair and since your prime fighter is F16 what stops us from hacking its bugs since we now have access to many things which we never had ... rest sir you keep speculating

but make no mistake BVR game or any other arial fight PAF cannot even dream to match IAF either in quwality or quwantity and PAF top honchos know it

now we just dont have MKI but also upgraded M2K and Fulkrums, jaguars and bisons all of whome can fire very long range BVRs like Derby , I Derby ER , Magic or MICA , R77 type or Python 5 VWR so what can or will you do against them all cause they wont come alone they will come in formations with AWACS blinding or trying to hack jamm your ground & arial from background in tandem with massive jammers on board on MKI & Fulkrums and M2Ks while passive long range BVRs & AWACS killer KS-172 type missles taking out your AWACS we can do that and we will do that cause for doing it we wont have to cross the border as our artilerry will be shelling relenlessly and our AWACS & Fighters would still be in our Airspace as we have long range capability

and yes your PAF knows this fact too so sir please its not just about RCS alone there are many many things and thats why people like @MastanKhan keep saying try having very long range twin engined boimbers with massive AESA radars and semi -limited stealth capabilty (electrinic like SPECTRA on rafale) so to cheat enemy radars thats why USA is investing trillions in stealth tech they are not fools neither are chinese who despite aal the hardships are still investing in stealth tech

so sir read again so called BVR combat in modern era is not about just pilot skills any more lolss F35 for 80% of its combat missons fly on autopilot its when its git 360 degrees all aspect off bore sight capabilty and next gen JHMCS with smart HMD and all kinds of elecronic warfaare suites you can imagine with a super computer as its master brain flying and managing it

in short BVR combat is not about RCS alone & we have much much better and much much more than is told to you kid have a nice day

I read whole post and trying to identify what point are you trying to make ... your all claims are based on the useless argument that tech of the world most advanced aircraft manfacturer is useless and will be jammed by by your aircraft due to somehow your tech is ut of the world ... if you have satellite what makes you think we dont have access to chinese satellites ...

Discussing with you is useless and wastage of time as you live in your dream world and assumptions for which you have no basis ... you claimed to have best aircraft but yet at the time of uri attack your air force rold you that these are useless against pakistan and hence got approval of rafael within few days ... so either you are in dillusion or your airforce is a stupid and wasting your money ... dont tell me rafael are for china as there is no way 36 rafael can make any difference against j20s 100s of j16s j10s j11 and mkks...

I am not replying to you anymore as you have no basis for your useless assumptions ...
 
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but it was beefed up as there was a incident with the landing gear.
20160102221455_1.jpg

and that alone cant have added enough weight for it to be rejected
well im not an navan engineer rlated to NLCA sirjee but what i hear is that its just a temporary issue whch will be sorted out as soon as new gen landing gear and underbelly design with help of international players like LM and israelies is added in LCA & NLCA project whose work has gone in oberdrive ever since NaMo govt came to power results will be out shortly :tup:

I read whole post and trying to identify what point are you trying to make ... your all claims are based on the useless argument that tech of the world most advanced aircraft manfacturer is useless and will be jammed by by your aircraft due to somehow your tech is ut of the world ... if you have satellite what makes you think we dont have access to chinese satellites ...

Discussing with you is useless and wastage of time as you live in your dream world and assumptions for which you have no basis ... you claimed to have best aircraft but yet at the time of uri attack your air force rold you that these are useless against pakistan and hence got approval of rafael within few days ... so either you are in dillusion or your airforce is a stupid and wasting your money ... dont tell me rafael are for china as there is no way 36 rafael can make any difference against j20s 100s of j16s j10s j11 and mkks...

I am not replying to you anymore as you have no basis for your useless assumptions ...
1. you might have access to chinese sts same way we have to US and israeli and russian data like the way russians even helped us with there SAT imagerry in 1971 and Israelies in 1999 so whats the big deal point is what you need in the real time we have in real time 24X7X365 at our back hand call in house while you have to either station a person in beijing and saty connected wih a communication link which can be sabotaged or have to run every time to beijing to mantain complete secrecy either way its not as good as if you have our ow dedicated militarry sattelite

2.well all pulse dopller radars & PESA can be jammed thats why world is moving towards solid state AESA radars with no moving parts get your facts right and do some resrearch

3.as for Uri attack it was a terrorist attack where the thugs attacked with help of loacal out fits after they sneaked in through ungourded water fronts and forests and other natural barriers along LOC shelling cover by across the border but unlike previus goverments we are giving befitting reply

4. now lets come back to topi point is PAF has nothing axecpt 18 Blk52 & 42 +13 MLUed blk40 F16s and some 64 JF17 agianst 250 odd MKis +upgraded 63 Fulkrums+54 M2Ks +126 Jaguars +125 Bisons even if you do not add potential threat by rafales
 
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Small nimble fighters are great for local area defense and shoot and run doctrine.

But it means paf ability to hit Indian military infra structure and commercial centres is limited to missles

In contrast India with heavy hitting long range fighters combined with your lack of strategic depth means Pakistan will inevitable suffer far more damage to its bases and it key industrial centres.

Your Sam systems and radars don't have the nos or depth of the Israel and Indian systems which are more advanced and more accurate IE green pine . Sword fish both track up-to 1500 km which is huge coverages and will track your missles into Indian sky's.

Ultimately it comes down to cost you Pakistanis just don't have the resources to go toe to toe .

You have to duck dive and survive long enough to force a stalemate
 
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well im not an navan engineer rlated to NLCA sirjee but what i hear is that its just a temporary issue whch will be sorted out as soon as new gen landing gear and underbelly design with help of international players like LM and israelies is added in LCA & NLCA project whose work has gone in oberdrive ever since NaMo govt came to power results will be out shortly :tup:


1. you might have access to chinese sts same way we have to US and israeli and russian data like the way russians even helped us with there SAT imagerry in 1971 and Israelies in 1999 so whats the big deal point is what you need in the real time we have in real time 24X7X365 at our back hand call in house while you have to either station a person in beijing and saty connected wih a communication link which can be sabotaged or have to run every time to beijing to mantain complete secrecy either way its not as good as if you have our ow dedicated militarry sattelite

2.well all pulse dopller radars & PESA can be jammed thats why world is moving towards solid state AESA radars with no moving parts get your facts right and do some resrearch

3.as for Uri attack it was a terrorist attack where the thugs attacked with help of loacal out fits after they sneaked in through ungourded water fronts and forests and other natural barriers along LOC shelling cover by across the border but unlike previus goverments we are giving befitting reply

4. now lets come back to topi point is PAF has nothing axecpt 18 Blk52 & 42 +13 MLUed blk40 F16s and some 64 JF17 agianst 250 odd MKis +upgraded 63 Fulkrums+54 M2Ks +126 Jaguars +125 Bisons even if you do not add potential threat by rafales
Just again bla bla ... you have no aesa as of now but still chanting AESA ... all PESA and pulse doplers can be jammed agreed so f16s and mkis both can be jammed thats why i never raised this as there is no conclsion to this point other than in real life but you still keep on insisting jamming jamming jamming ...

You are counting your bisons and bomber jaguar whereas ignored our mirrage 5 rose and F7 PGs ... that's why it is useless to continue discussion with you ...
 
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