India Is Buying 36 Rafale Fighters from France (and Pakistan Should Worry)

[The Accountant]

Kaise ho jammer bhaiyye kaisee katt rahee hai

1. MKI carries 12 BVRs and still can fire them in 6 tandem pair like 1 active guided mode and 1 in passive guided mode with lock on before or after launch capability at six different targets at a range of 125Km (max range of its prime LR-BVRs) plus it also has a so called AWACS Killer BVR with 400KM/780Kg/50Kg HE fregmentation warhead with range (it can carry 4 of those in a single sortie)

Do you have any idea in a real fight how much time a pilot has to react and engage ... do you have any idea what is effective range of a BVR combat ??? Do you have any idea how difficult is to engage two fighter aircraft simultaneously ... Real word is entirely different then dog fight of Top gun movie ... You must read accounts of pilots real life fights ... fighter aircraft coming towards each other at Mach 1.5 plus has almost 30 seconds in having radar blink and crossing each other ... Do you have any idea that how much drag will these 12 BVR missiles carry and how much they will enhance the RCS of MKI which is already much bigger for a fighter aircraft ... Carrying 12 BVR is good against some inferrior force but where the other force has equally powerful radars, AWACS, data fusion from gournd radars and equally powerful BVR missiles then carrying 12 BVR is a burden rather than benefit ... Have you consider that due to hue RCS if F16s and Thunders have a first blink and loose there BVR first then MKI can be in deep trouble ...

These are air fights now heavy weight lifting championship where guy capable of carrying more weight will win the title ...

MKI RCS is its biggest dis advantage ... if thats not the case then India would have never gone to Rafael ...

2. india has now achved 65% readyness level on MKI and we have 270 of them meaning 175 always ready meaning total ammount of fighters in PAF now what about upgraded M2K & Fulkrums & Jaguars even if you dont bring potential threat posted by rafales or FGFA in future @Windjammer

Brother Pakistan covered area is also much lesser ... Pakistan air doctrine is revolving around defense of air space whereas attack Indian post near border using PGM and for deep strike cruise missiles are built ... India's doctrine is to get air superiority thats why they need quantitative as well qulitative security ... However, uptill now Pakistan has countered each and everything quite successfully ... With Link 17 , aerial refuelers and AWACS Pakistan can effectively engaged much larger Indian Air Force whereas India needs much higher number of planes due to 5 time bigger area to defend ...

3. last but not the least we are parctising against F16 Blk50/52 of singapore airforce which are stationed in india for over a decade now and getting all inputs from insraeli & merican experts as our pilots keep making trips to israel & USA for the same so you think your 18-40 bugged and obsolete F16s would really sacre us jammer bhiyye think again

So what ??? We are practicing against SU30 in China ... We are even flying Mirrages in UAE ... Infact while concieving JF17 special attention was given that it can counter MKIs ...

Baki ki story k ly I am waiting for windy bhaiya to tell us the story of recent encounter between MKI and Thunder @Windjammer

 

[surya kiran]

Baki ki story k ly I am waiting for windy bhaiya to tell us the story of recent encounter between MKI and Thunder @Windjammer

Of course, the JF-17 locked on to the MKI and the MKI pilot turned and ran towards home. Actually, there were 4 MKIs and 1 Thunder. Because 1 Pakistani Thunder = 4 Indian MKIs because of superior DSI tech and superior pilot training.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Do you have any idea in a real fight how much time a pilot has to react and engage ... do you have any idea what is effective range of a BVR combat ??? Do you have any idea how difficult is to engage two fighter aircraft simultaneously ... Real word is entirely different then dog fight of Top gun movie ... You must read accounts of pilots real life fights ... fighter aircraft coming towards each other at Mach 1.5 plus has almost 30 seconds in having radar blink and crossing each other ... Do you have any idea that how much drag will these 12 BVR missiles carry and how much they will enhance the RCS of MKI which is already much bigger for a fighter aircraft ... Carrying 12 BVR is good against some inferrior force but where the other force has equally powerful radars, AWACS, data fusion from gournd radars and equally powerful BVR missiles then carrying 12 BVR is a burden rather than benefit ... Have you consider that due to hue RCS if F16s and Thunders have a first blink and loose there BVR first then MKI can be in deep trouble ...

These are air fights now heavy weight lifting championship where guy capable of carrying more weight will win the title ...

MKI RCS is its biggest dis advantage ... if thats not the case then India would have never gone to Rafael ...



Brother Pakistan covered area is also much lesser ... Pakistan air doctrine is revolving around defense of air space whereas attack Indian post near border using PGM and for deep strike cruise missiles are built ... India's doctrine is to get air superiority thats why they need quantitative as well qulitative security ... However, uptill now Pakistan has countered each and everything quite successfully ... With Link 17 , aerial refuelers and AWACS Pakistan can effectively engaged much larger Indian Air Force whereas India needs much higher number of planes due to 5 time bigger area to defend ...


So what ??? We are practicing against SU30 in China ... We are even flying Mirrages in UAE ... Infact while concieving JF17 special attention was given that it can counter MKIs ...

Baki ki story k ly I am waiting for windy bhaiya to tell us the story of recent encounter between MKI and Thunder @Windjammer

excuse me do you know that this is era of 4.5 genration fighters and MKI is a twin seat fighter where one pilot flies the fighter and manages the missile & weapons systems only while the other one only manages the very complex Radar, internal jammers. EW & ECM suits and combned avionics suites in a MKI and the DATALINK with the ground control now add all that with GaA based ASEA & 2D & 3D Pesa ground radar netwrork backup and Satlink which is always on

so please dont give me those fancy names like Link14 & AWACS well least you forget we too have PHALCON's and home grown AWACS by LRDE & air to air refulers its not only that you have it

and we have been feilding BVRs with range in access of 100KM since 1997 so yes i know what i am talking about rather you dont have any idea what im talking about kiddo

as for China do you really Think China will put its feat in for you when you take panga with india cause no strong nation will ever attack another strong nation for a weak but a perpetual trouble maker nation hint did china came and attacked india in 1965, 1971 or 1999 ?

 

[The Accountant]

excuse me do you know that this is era of 4.5 genration fighters and MKI is a twin seat fighter where one pilot flies the fughter and manges the missle & waepons systems only while the other one only manges the very complex Radar, internal jammers. EW & ECM suits and combned avionics suites in a MKI and the DATALINK with the ground control now add all that with GaA based ASEA & 2D & 3D Pesa ground radar netwrork backup and Satlink which is always on of IAF so please dont give me those fancy names like Link14 & AWACS well least you forget we too have PHALCON's and home grown AWACS by LRDE & air to air refulers its not only that you have it

and we have been feilding BVRs with range in access of 100KM since 1997 so yes i know what im talking about rather you dont have any idea what im talking about kiddo

as for China do you really Think China will put its feat in for you when you take panga with india cause no stariong nation will ever attack another stron natoon for a weak but a perpetual trouble maker nation hint did china came and attacked india in 1965, 1971 or 1999 ?

Why you screaming like a kid as I have placed my foot on your tail ... Just relax and discuss based on arguments ...

I didn't know MKI has AESA .. Do they? 2D , 3D PESA ... Last time I checked APG-68 is one of the most competent radar ...

You might have data link and AWACS as well but arent you fogetting that your claim is to have air superiority whereas our is to defend air space so are you sending your AWACS close to our borders to get them targetted ? Remember the invading force is always at disadvantage with respect to resources as they have very limited support resources so if you are attacking with 10 aircrafts then they have to face ground radars, SAMs, Fighter aircraft from multiple directions, AWACS, EW attack from multiple sources ...

Furthermore, where did I mentioned China ???

I just refute your argument about 12 BVR missiles and disadvantage of MKI with high RCS and instead of discussing those you started bla bla ...

If you are a hot shot as you claim you are then please set your argument straight ..

Even with 2 crew, pilot is a human and he had a stress level and can engage one aircraft in a short time of few seconds ...

I thought you were talking about BVR engagement ... So if you are seen first and shot at first due to your huge RCS then still your pilot will keep on flying straight towards the missile or will he try to disengage and get rid of missile first ?

The greatest aces of aviation history quotes if you see first you kill first and thats where MKI is at disadvantage ...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Why you screaming like a kid as I have placed my foot on your tail ... Just relax and discuss based on arguments ...

I didn't know MKI has AESA .. Do they? 2D , 3D PESA ... Last time I checked APG-68 is one of the most competent radar ...

You might have data link and AWACS as well but arent you fogetting that your claim is to have air superiority whereas our is to defend air space so are you sending your AWACS close to our borders to get them targetted ? Remember the invading force is always at disadvantage with respect to resources as they have very limited support resources so if you are attacking with 10 aircrafts then they have to face ground radars, SAMs, Fighter aircraft from multiple directions, AWACS, EW attack from multiple sources ...

Furthermore, where did I mentioned China ???

I just refute your argument about 12 BVR missiles and disadvantage of MKI with high RCS and instead of discussing those you started bla bla ...

If you are a hot shot as you claim you are then please set your argument straight ..

Even with 2 crew, pilot is a human and he had a stress level and can engage one aircraft in a short time of few seconds ...

I thought you were talking about BVR engagement ... So if you are seen first and shot at first due to your huge RCS then still your pilot will keep on flying straight towards the missile or will he try to disengage and get rid of missile first ?

The greatest aces of aviation history quotes if you see first you kill first and thats where MKI is at disadvantage ...

1. sir i said indian ground based AESA nwtwork not that MKI has AESA & 2D & 3D PESA read it again

2.well guess what there are many russian radars wich are equally good if not far ahead of APG-68 cause it not just radar but other avionicks attached to it that make it more potent like internal jammers , EW & ECM suites which are massive on MKI

3. as for so calle RCS alone well when a massive jammer is jamming your radar and couple or long range passive guded BVRs are locked on you would you break the formation and run for cover or try to fight caus e dont forget your just next doar and as soon as a fighter takes of from a pakistani base its been tracked and we have air bases and counter air batteries/SAMs all along the broder and very shortly the ones which could fly in enemy aera to destroy hostile arial targets (S400 & arrow3)

remmeber we gave green pine radars since almost 15 years now which can peep 450Km in enemy territory just think what we might have now

so kid its not just long range BVRs but long range fighter radars , AWACS ,but 24X7X365 Long range ground ., AEROSTAT and AWACS and of course SATELITE based SAR radars and satelliete coverage that keeps an eye on our enemies SIR

so sir so called BVR combat is not just about RCS alone anymore you cant hide and your assets will be taken well before you think you are in a postion to take ours out

 

[ziaulislam]

Of course, the JF-17 locked on to the MKI and the MKI pilot turned and ran towards home. Actually, there were 4 MKIs and 1 Thunder. Because 1 Pakistani Thunder = 4 Indian MKIs because of superior DSI tech and superior pilot training.

Great. Glad to hear that, but if 4 MKI are running, its likely due to doubts and poor training.

 

[ziaulislam]

Please tell me a single kill by S Chinease fighter in last forty years .

I cannot think of one successful kill by Indengious Chinease.fighter or pilot

I dont see a single fighter aircraft down by IAF since 1971..this means IAF is shitty too

 

[WarFariX]

No one is here trying to convince you since your buck stops on Chinese Mall.
Perhaps you should revisit history and enlighten yourself with what the Chinese F-6s did to your Migs, SU-7s and Hunters during 1971 war, more recently the Chinese F-7PGs in PAF service have been spoiling the day for some well known brands,
And it's actually JF-17s which now patrol the Indian border and not without reason.

Alan Warnes‏ @warnesyworld
Spent time with the superb Black Panthers at Minhas today. Two of their JF-17s on ADA were scrambled with full loadout and headed east.

Bhai this pic is enough to express truth of chinese fighters.

 

[Pak.one]

18 brand new f16 block 52,

Versis

272 brand new mki flankers

OK so how does this work

At the time of need we will lease 200 chinese SU30 MKK or J16 for war time. Now i think you will not sleep all night

 

[The Accountant]

1. sir i said indian ground based AESA nwtwork not that MKI has AESA & 2D & 3D PESA read it again

2.well guess what there are many russian radars wich are equally good if not far ahead of APG-68 cause it not just radar but other avionicks attached to it that make it more potent like internal jammers , EW & ECM suites which are massive on MKI

3. as for so calle RCS alone well when a massive jammer is jamming your radar and couple or long range passive guded BVRs are locked on you would you break the formation and run for cover or try to fight caus e dont forget your just next doar and as soon as a fighter takes of from a pakistani base its been tracked and we have air bases and counter air batteries/SAMs all along the broder and very shortly the ones which could fly in enemy aera to destroy hostile arial targets (S400 & arrow3)

remmeber we gave green pine radars since almost 15 years now which can peep 450Km in enemy territory just think what we might have now

so kid its not just long range BVRs but long range fighter radars , AWACS ,but 24X7X365 Long range ground ., AEROSTAT and AWACS and of course SATELITE based SAR radars and satelliete coverage that keeps an eye on our enemies SIR

so sir so called BVR combat is not just about RCS alone anymore you cant hide and your assets will be taken well before you think you are in a postion to take ours out

You are confused ... your arguments are bassed on support from aerostat and ground based radar and attacking formation ... and i thought you are aware enough to understand war is never about one asset against others ... so you are telling me that you will be using your ground radars and aerostat radar whereas radiation emitting fixed hostile assets within 200kms of both side of the border will be first to be taken care through artilery, anti radiation missiles and PGM ... and noone sane will place these assets near to border unless achieved air superirority ... so your intruding aircrafts will all be on there own ... support from AWACS and and other ground based assets will be next to nothing ...

Again let me remind you we are discussing scenario in which you have to come to Pakistan air space and not the other way around which is clearly evident from the doctrine of both the air forces ....

Secondly kindly dont tell me that you beileve that MKI can jam APG 68 ... APG 68 is state of art radar with his own anti jamming and EW suits ... i dont want to derail the argument so stop this non sense argument here otherwise I can also claim that radar of MKI will be jammed by F16s ...

Furthermore BVR fight is always more about RCS ... radar is your eye you can take on a target if you can see that through radar ... and you cant take on if you cant see as there is no visual way of bvr ...

Regarding taking on our aircrafts ... listen you are intruding force you have no assets in the area other than your aircraft and satellite image which is useless in such an attack ... you dont know which airbase and which aircrafts are ordered to scramble to defend against you ... infact if there is an aircraft coming from behind with radar switched off you will not even know unless he gets you locked within visiual range ...

If you try to bring in awacs within 200 km range of pakistani borders than it will be easy to attack and beyond that range awacs will be useless due to small rcs of Pakistani planes ...

Remember there is a reason pakistan concieved jf17 thunder at the time india procured mki ... for pakistan small and nibble aircrafts are way to go to deploy shoot and scoot capabilities ...

I am not saying that mki is a bad aircraft ... what i am saying that f16 and thunders has its plus point and strong edge whereas mki has its own ... in an intruding engagement f16s and thunder will have definite edge due to small nimble aircrafts getting support lot of other resources ....

 

[Pak.one]

In fact, I was talking about the Chinese dreams!!!

Brother your words are higher than indian mental level dont worry about his answer.hahahaha...

 

[surya kiran]

Great. Glad to hear that, but if 4 MKI are running, its likely due to doubts and poor training.

Of course, I am agreeing with you. Thunder with DSI, alien radar and batman like pilot is beyst boss, beyst! What 4 MKIs, F-22 will run from a dogfight.

Bhai this pic is enough to express truth of chinese fighters.

@gambit your top fighter is getting escorted by 3rd generation Mig copy. Any views?

 

[WarFariX]

Of course, I am agreeing with you. Thunder with DSI, alien radar and batman like pilot is beyst boss, beyst! What 4 MKIs, F-22 will run from a dogfight.



@gambit your top fighter is getting escorted by 3rd generation Mig copy. Any views?

Also dont forget this sentence "Men behind the machine" is actually made for PAF , I dont want myself to be sound immature by introducing these sorts of statements but tbh this is true in our case. Results are the one you are seeing above and also our mirage pilots who buzzed over US carriers. You guys have no idea even now how many gem of pilots we have alhamdullilah. Enough to drown all of Jaguars , Mig-29ks and ground all of MKIs mirages and rafales . wait for it boy

 

[surya kiran]

Also dont forget this sentence "Men behind the machine" is actually made for PAF , I dont want myself to be sound immature by introducing these sorts of statements but tbh this is true in our case. Results are the one you are seeing above and also our mirage pilots who buzzed over US carriers. You guys have no idea even now how many gem of pilots we have alhamdullilah. Enough to drown all of Jaguars , Mig-29ks and ground all of MKIs mirages and rafales . wait for it boy

Yes yes of course. I am agreeing. PAF pilot in Mirage III/Mig 21 copy beat the pants out of the 5th generation plane.

 

[Hassan Guy]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...ighter-jets/story-keKIdw6aEYa9WyU81DDi4N.html