India In China’S New Assertiveness – Analysis

[Rusty]

This thread is not about 71 war..so please consider it as my last reply..though more then willing to discuss it in a new thread...



I never said China has nothing to brag about 62...However there are very stark differences b/w 62 and 71...Don't want to get into it...Anyhow just few clarifications...

BD was never given much of teeth when it comes to defense...In short it was peace of cake for IA all the time...I hope you would agree here...but then what was holding IA??...it was PA in the west....Here are my reasons for the loss in 71 and yes distance was the least of the reason...

1. Defense of east lies in the west was the mantra of PA...That was the philosphy based on which BD defenses were ignored. Idea was that if IA venture into BD then PA will make inroads into India's western sector and thus use that as bargaining chip. However in 71 PA lost more land in western sector then it occupied...So the bargaining chip theory bite the dust.

2. In order to re-plenish their troops open sea lanes were a must for Pak...However PN was beaten hands down by IN and thus closing that route...

3. Last but not the least...Imposing bloackade, holding PA in the west and making advances in the east had to be done very swiftly...We all know the pressure being mounted on India by international forces...China was being very vocal, USA was almost ready to attack us(thanks to USSR to keep them away)...Thus practically job of PA was to hold Indian onslaught for some more time before a forced truce was re-inforced by international community. Achieving all this in just 17 days was definitely a marvel...In fact at many levels...In fact when surrender was enforced in dhaka then there were hardly 3000 IA personnels surrounding Dhaka compared to 30,000 odd counterparts..I am sure if Niazi would have been aware of the situation he would have hold his ground for some time and who knows results would have been different...

In short there is much to cheer about 71 war...In contrast 62 war was very limited war where AF, Navy were not involved...In fact it was a time when our PM Nehru was of the view then defense forces are waste of resources...However a defeat is a defeat irrespective of the reasons...One must learn from their mistakes and IA did show that in 67, and late 80's when similar(on a small scale) hostilities broke with China...

Holy moly No one asked for an in depth review of 71.
But the funny thing is that after all that, you still just proved my point.
All those missteps that Pakistan took meant that it was a cake walk for India.
So once again, if you are going to tell China that they have nothing to be proud of for 62, then India really has nothing to be proud of for 71. But heck, you guys even have a national day for 71 war. Kinda sad considering all the facts IMHO.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

I think the Title "Teach a lesson Again" types itself qualifies to be a flame bait as it will surely provoke patriotism.

I believe both India and China had differences in the past, but we also tend to forget that India and China actually had a very good relation prior to that. In the history of 1000's of years of existence did Indian provinces and Chinese provinces actually fight? Also, more learned Chinese and Indian citizens are aware that a peaceful co existence with military deterrence is way forward. China supports India in various global fronts such as its supported India for a permanent UN council seat. I work with a lot of Chinese here since I am in telecom HR and I find them very interesting to chat with.

As an Indian I feel we need to emphasize more on cooperative ties with China and exchange more bilateral ties to propel our own economy to newer heights. Pakistan will always be a rivalry be it cricket, kabbadi, kho kho or military... we just won't be able to get over it hence no point replying to my brotherly Trolls from India and Pakistan. However, sometimes we forget some beautiful exchanges with each other such a Fateh Ali Khan, Junoon, AR Rahman and Movies which indicates our common choices.

I also urge Indian posters to look forward towards creating a more constructive with our Chinese brothers and try to understand their point of view and in return also educate them on our well wish thoughts.

Regards,
Foo

 

[Tshering22]

China will not fight another indecisive mountain border conflict. Instead, we will deploy our heavy armor directly to the subcontinent plains via railway links between China and Pakistan. The next lesson will be taught in New Delhi, not Southern Tibet like in 1962.

Nice... now tell that to the newly indoctrinated Red Guard and incentivize them. These jokes are only good for an Army that is not even allowed to read newspapers...

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Three words Bring it on

Enough sabre rattling , now begin with it .

 

[Lone Shooter]

No matter how advanced/ civilized we become, a little spark and all hell breaks loss. I agree with some participants of trolls, that a little thought should have gone in while picking the right words for the topic.

In the end we all are like Alpha bulls, trying to make our dominance felt across the board.

 

[Tshering22]

I also urge Indian posters to look forward towards creating a more constructive with our Chinese brothers and try to understand their point of view and in return also educate them on our well wish thoughts.

Regards,
Foo

Bro, which part of India are you from exactly if I may ask? From your location status I guess you're from J&K. In that case you have a long, long way to understand the Reds. My people are more aware about them than most other states in India. If there's one thing you do about Reds, it is:

Never trust them.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Three words Bring it on

Enough sabre rattling , now begin with it .

Can't and won't. Why?

Hint 1: 62 was not the first and last conflict we had.
Hint 2: The "other" conflicts we both fought, didn't turn out to be nice for the Reds.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Bro, which part of India are you from exactly if I may ask? From your location status I guess you're from J&K. In that case you have a long, long way to understand the Reds. My people are more aware about them than most other states in India. If there's one thing you do about Reds, it is:

Never trust them.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------



Can't and won't. Why?

Hint 1: 62 was not the first and last conflict we had.
Hint 2: The "other" conflicts we both fought, didn't turn out to be nice for the Reds.

That is why i said bring it on

 

[deckingraj]

Holy moly No one asked for an in depth review of 71.
But the funny thing is that after all that, you still just proved my point.
All those missteps that Pakistan took meant that it was a cake walk for India.
So once again, if you are going to tell China that they have nothing to be proud of for 62, then India really has nothing to be proud of for 71. But heck, you guys even have a national day for 71 war. Kinda sad considering all the facts IMHO.

The reason for that in depth review of 71 was to show you how and why that war was a militarily and diplomatically marvel...but once again you failed to see the point...BD was always peace of cake but what was stopping it from happening was PA in the western sector...It is the defeat of PA in the western sector which resulted in creation of BD...Otherwise we would have to return BD for occupied land by PA in our western sector...It is this defeat that you are ignoring(god knows why) and labeling it as "distance"...

Anyhow as said 62 and 71 are two different wars fought at different levels...Still as said earlier a defeat is a defeat irrespective of the reasons...and yes Chinese are free to brag about 62 as much as they want...we knew we were on the loosing side in 62 and since then working on to improve things...67 and 88 were two incidents that gives an inclination that we did learn.....

 

[chess]

China will not fight another indecisive mountain border conflict. Instead, we will deploy our heavy armor directly to the subcontinent plains via railway links between China and Pakistan. The next lesson will be taught in New Delhi, not Southern Tibet like in 1962.

India taught several lessons to PAK did they learn any????? No(according to them it is debatable). Do you still think "WE WILL TEACH INDIA A LESSON" kind of statements gonna work???

 

[Rusty]

The reason for that in depth review of 71 was to show you how and why that war was a militarily and diplomatically marvel...but once again you failed to see the point...BD was always peace of cake but what was stopping it from happening was PA in the western sector...It is the defeat of PA in the western sector which resulted in creation of BD...Otherwise we would have to return BD for occupied land by PA in our western sector...It is this defeat that you are ignoring(god knows why) and labeling it as "distance"...

Anyhow as said 62 and 71 are two different wars fought at different levels...Still as said earlier a defeat is a defeat irrespective of the reasons...and yes Chinese are free to brag about 62 as much as they want...we knew we were on the loosing side in 62 and since then working on to improve things...67 and 88 were two incidents that gives an inclination that we did learn.....

Usually in the English language, when a much much larger country defeats a much much smaller country, we do not call it a marvel. It is what is expected. No one is denying the victories that India had, but considering all of Indian advantaged, it should have won. And it did, so once again, nothing special.
But I have noticed that many Indians are extraordinarily proud of this moment, so hey, who am I to get in the way of their happiness.

 

[HongWu]

Can't and won't. Why?

Hint 1: 62 was not the first and last conflict we had.
Hint 2: The "other" conflicts we both fought, didn't turn out to be nice for the Reds.

PLA already killed your indo-tibetan border patrol a few months ago. More lessons are coming, including lessons from PLAAF bombers for New Delhi!

I cant believe the chinese are gloating over the 1962 victory

anybody can win by launching a sneak attack on a peaceful country which had an army 1/10th the size

LOL at indians forgetting their lesson. In 1962 Nehru said China was too weak to respond to india's invasion of Tibet!!

 

[Rusty]

India taught several lessons to PAK did they learn any????? No(according to them it is debatable). Do you still think "WE WILL TEACH INDIA A LESSON" kind of statements gonna work???

LOL
China taught you a lesson and yet you guys are still saying "BRING IT ON" literally.
It blows my mind sometimes at the extreme contradictions Indians show.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

LOL
China taught you a lesson and yet you guys are still saying "BRING IT ON" literally.
It blows my mind sometimes at the extreme contradictions Indians show.

Yes We are asking them to Bring it On . What is the problem ?

 

[Rusty]

Yes We are asking them to Bring it On . What is the problem ?

Some times I feel like I am talking to a rock, then I realize it is an Indian member on Pakistan defense forum.
Please re read and take into account the context of what I said.

 

[gpit]

I cant believe the chinese are gloating over the 1962 victory

anybody can win by launching a sneak attack on a peaceful country which had an army 1/10th the size

Yeah! Indian peaceful = forwarding into other country's territory.


Everybody must response the "peaceful" with a decisive and forceful fist.