India get the first 3 MiG29UPG fighters

[Abingdonboy]

No no.. read the my previous posts and also the upgrade package detailed in that red pic posted by someone above. MiG-29UPG will not have Topsight.

Sir, I've heard numerous times from numourous sources that it WILL come with TOPSIGHT.

 

[MiG-21]

Yea, different sources do report between Topsight and Shchel. Although getting a new costly french HMDS for just 1000 hours seems improbable. Anyway, lets wait and see.

 

[MiG-21]

I found a link which is very comprehensive and lists everything individually. But it is in Russian. Use a translator get the info.
I think the confusion stems from the MiG-29K package, and several reporters and news agencies make an error out of that confusion by assuming Topsight in both the packages the moment Thales is mentioned for both UPG and K.

"k-36 d ejection seat-3.5, central digital computer ANS-ANS-486/90-2, weapons control RADAR "Zhuk-me, lokacionnuûâ-optical/IR station, helmet mounted target system KOHLS sh-1, rich-3UM LCD displays – 4 units, the light on the windshield eels-2, TV system and digital signal processor BKCO, video recorder SVR, inertial navigation system with built-in GPS receiver-bins-SP, a-053 radio altimeter, voice warning system MS-2, integrated surveillance-recording system for CT-bstation, missile guidance with passive RADAR SEEKER l-150NU, EW station."

"In particular, the company Thales will deliver new system cryptography and identity "ally-alien" under the modernization programme 63 MiG-29 MILITARY AIRCRAFT of India. The contract Thales with RAC «MiG» to supply cryptographic system NSM and combination identity system "ally-alien" CIT to MiG-29 MILITARY AIRCRAFT of India was signed at the end of March 2010. Deliveries scheduled to begin in late 2010. This equipment will be installed on all 63 MiG-29 that are ordered by the Indian air force will be upgraded by RAC «MiG»."

Ïåðâûé ïîëåò èñòðåáèòåëÿ ÌèÃ-29UPG ñòàë âàæíûì ýòàïîì â ïðîãðàììå ìîäåðíèçàöèè ïàðêà ÌèÃ-29 ÂÂÑ Èíäèè - ÂÏÊ.name

Note no Topsight by Thales. Only Identification Friend or Foe and other minor systems.

 

[sancho]

Yea, different sources do report between Topsight and Shchel. Although getting a new costly french HMDS for just 1000 hours seems improbable. Anyway, lets wait and see...

...Note no Topsight by Thales. Only Identification Friend or Foe and other minor systems.

It is not offered by Thales, but by Samtel and produced in India under the name, Divy Drishti:

SDS::Leading Manufacturer of DisplaySystems,CAT,MFD,HUD,HMD,ATE&IADS in India


So it wouldn't be mentioned in Thales reports anyway, also the operational time is not an argument either, otherwise IAF would add HMS to upgraded Mirage 2000s as well and would go for a simpler helmet. They want the capability for sure, not matter what time is left for the fighters, the question however would be, what operational advantages would Divy Drishti offer compared to the Russian HMS?

 

[IND151]

AFAIK, it's for fuel. Thus it's range is about 50% more than Mig-29M

thanks for info

During a dogfight or a low level flight in the range of AAA, one bullet in this and you can kiss the air craft goodbye. I, know for a fact,its for EW suite, mostly the fuel is carried internally. Having, drop tanks down below and a tank right on the top is a huge God damn risk.

thank you for the info. I stand corrected now

 

[IND151]

Mig 29 UPGs look better than original ones and look little like basic Su 27(due to hump)

 

[Sri]

Mig 29 UPGs look better than original ones and look little like basic Su 27(due to hump)

HMS is : Sh-3UM-1 Helmet Mounted Integrated Targeting system - According to Defunct Humanity: MiG-29UPG detailes

 

[MiG-21]

It is not offered by Thales, but by Samtel and produced in India under the name, Divy Drishti:

SDS::Leading Manufacturer of DisplaySystems,CAT,MFD,HUD,HMD,ATE&IADS in India

The link only says MiG-29k. No UPG. I have never come across any link for Samtel HMDS for UPG, but plenty of links for Thales, and Sch-3um-1. All this confusion will be solved soon when pics of pilots with their helmets are released soon.

So it wouldn't be mentioned in Thales reports anyway, also the operational time is not an argument either, otherwise IAF would add HMS to upgraded Mirage 2000s as well and would go for a simpler helmet. They want the capability for sure, not matter what time is left for the fighters, the question however would be, what operational advantages would Divy Drishti offer compared to the Russian HMS?

Mirage-2000's Airframe life is 5000 hours compared to 2500 hours of MiG-29B and 3000 hours of Su-30MKI. Russian fighters generally have less airframe life because of the Russian concept of war of attrition which emphasis overrunning Europe with sheer numbers and unavoidable losses, same concept which worked with Nazi Germany. After UPG upgrade, Mirage-2000's airframe life is not known but getting a cue from the F-16 upgrade carried out on PAF, which increases its service life to 8000 hours from the original 4500 hours you can bet the airframe life of the Mirage to be in that same range. Basically Mirage-2000UPG will outlive MiG-29UPG, and also will fly more often than the Fulcrum in those years. The only Russian fighter with 6000 hours is the Su-35S.

 

[sancho]

The link only says MiG-29k.

I didn't said it would say Mig 29UPG, I only explained why Thales wouldn't mention any Topsight sales.

Mirage-2000's Airframe life is 5000 hours compared to 2500 hours of MiG-29B and 3000 hours of Su-30MKI.

Which doesn't matter, since both types will be phased out at the same time. The fact is though that IAF still wanted a HMS integrated to the M2Ks, although it will only be for around 10 years, so the time has no point in the decision as well. That's why I said, it might be about capability of the helmets, rather than costs, or the remaining operational life in IAF service.

 

[JonAsad]

MiG corporation passed the first 3 MiG29 fighters modernised till UPG version over to India

Just to see a picture of this beauty i opened the thread--

 

[MiG-21]

Which doesn't matter, since both types will be phased out at the same time. The fact is though that IAF still wanted a HMS integrated to the M2Ks, although it will only be for around 10 years, so the time has no point in the decision as well. That's why I said, it might be about capability of the helmets, rather than costs, or the remaining operational life in IAF service.

Mirage-2000 will be around for 25 years more. MiG-29 only 15. But if you take the amount of time the Fulcrum spends in the air, and use that same time to the Mirage-2000, it could touch even 30 years.

 

[MiG-21]

Although the MiG-29B/UB/S/SE/SD/SM/SMT and the Su-27/30/33 series has such low airframe hours keeping in mind the soviet doctrine, the new unified family of MiG-29K/KUB/M/M2 and the Su-35S designed with changed geo-political realities is a completely different beast with 5000 hours Airframe life(and an engine life(RD-33MK) of 4000 hours), and 6000 hours respectively.

Give the MiG-29K and Su-35S Structural Upgrade MLUs, and they can easily reach above 8000 and 9000 hours respectively rivaling the service life of F-16 Block40/52 of 8000 hours, which with the Structural Upgrade MLUs they can reach 10000-10200 hours. F-35 too has said to have a service life of 8000 hours although tests are still going on. No idea about F-22 Raptor and F-15 and F-18E/F, although F-18C/D has a service life of 6000 hours which can be extended to 10000 hours. Hope PAK-FA has even more service life than the Su-35S.

 

[sancho]

Mirage-2000 will be around for 25 years more. MiG-29 only 15. But if you take the amount of time the Fulcrum spends in the air, and use that same time to the Mirage-2000, it could touch even 30 years.

I hope you just were kidding here. The Mirage 2000 was procured pretty much at the same time as the Mig 29, around 1986, so is already 26 years old and you really expect IAF to keep it in service till it's 50? That's not going to happen and they will be replaced in numbers by FGFA in the next decade, just like the upgraded Mig 27 and 29s with an age of 35 to 40 years. That's the normal lifecycle that IAF takes to account for their fighters and you see at the Mig 21s what happens when you keep them longer.

 

[arp2041]

I hope you just were kidding here. The Mirage 2000 was procured pretty much at the same time as the Mig 29, around 1986, so is already 26 years old and you really expect IAF to keep it in service till it's 50? That's not going to happen and they will be replaced in numbers by FGFA in the next decade, just like the upgraded Mig 27 and 29s with an age of 35 to 40 years. That's the normal lifecycle that IAF takes to account for their fighters and you see at the Mig 21s what happens when you keep them longer.

Sancho, I also read that these upgrades will extend the mig-29s service life to another 25-30 years, now i know they will be of no good after such a long time in IAF's inventory, but what this will do is that IAF now will have a cushion of nos. until they procure enough FGFAs, Rafales, LCAs into it's inventory & than can take call on mig-29's retirement.

 

[Luftwaffe]

The Mirage 2000 was procured pretty much at the same time as the Mig 29, around 1986, so is already 26 years old and you really expect IAF to keep it in service till it's 50?

Did you know IAF Mirage 2000 Fleet upgrades and handover would be around 2017 expect it to fly till 2035.