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India dreaming: Can we land on the moon and build toilets too?

GamoAccu

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On August 23, India made global news by landing its Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft on the hitherto unexplored south pole of the moon, becoming the first country in the world to do so.


"This moment is unforgettable. It is phenomenal. This is a victory cry of a new India," said an exultant Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He added that Isro’s moon mission was writing a new chapter in India’s space odyssey and elevating "the dreams and ambitions of every Indian".


Are the 1.4 billion Indians dreams and ambitions elevated by the space odyssey or the landing? The "space race" as it is called, was a race between the then Soviet Union (now Russia) and the United States, an outgrowth of the mid-20th-century Cold War, a conflict of ideologies of capitalism and communism. In 1957, the Soviet Union successfully sent Sputnik, the world’s first orbital satellite into space and a year later the US launched its first satellite, Explorer 1.


The race to the moon was just that, a race. In the context of the US, Michelle Hanlon, executive director of the Centre for Air and Space Law at the University of Mississippi, says: "We were just sort of rushing to get to be the first, get to the moon first. And that was all about prestige, geopolitics – who’s a better country? Whose system is working better?"

India as a newly independent nation in the early 1950s had ambitions of its own. Scientists like Homi Bhabha and Vikram Sarabhai, with the support of Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, worked to initiate the nuclear and space research programmes. Both were staunch nationalists, came from well-to-do industrialist families, studied in England, and believed that science and technology could leapfrog India into the 20th century, making it a global player. Leapfrogging is a phenomenon where a developing country can skip stages of the path taken by the industrial nations, enabling them to catch up sooner, particularly in terms of economic growth.


A space programme at this time seemed practical. "If we do not do it now, we will have to depend later on buying the knowhow from other countries at much greater cost. There are some who question the relevance of space activities in a developing nation. To us, there is no ambiguity of purpose," said Sarabhai.


The significance of India’s landing on the south pole of the moon is because of the water. According to Hanlon, for scientists it is important to be at the place where they are doing their scientific experiments and research. "We need to send people to the moon for long periods of time, and in order to do that, they need to have water. We can’t send them with all the water they need because that’s just simply too heavy. And water has to be separated into hydrogen and oxygen for use in propulsion, for space exploration beyond the universe, if we want to get to the asteroid belt, which have those rare earth metals that are going to make mining on Earth obsolete. To get the rockets to the asteroids a boost will be needed from the moon, as it would be cheaper."


Bhabha, Sarabhai and Nehru were talented and visionary men. However, their vision was slightly obscured by the stark reality of Indians emerging out of colonialism. The essential needs were housing, livelihoods, healthcare, electricity, water, schools and infrastructure, at every level.


India had entered the space race wanting to be included among the superpowers, not to be left behind as a poor nation. Being among the greats stems from a sense of inferiority, camouflaged as superiority. Neither the Soviet Union or the United States have shown much greatness as superpowers and global leaders in their own and other countries, strategically meddling and instigating conflict and war. This continues.


What can Indians be proud of today? Besides the moon landing, some advancements in the standard of living, a modern economy, part of the globalised world and muddling along despite the many challenges it faces. We can be prouder if we bring more people out of poverty, making livelihoods, education, health and sanitation a serious priority. A 2020 World Economic Forum study found "some 220 million Indians sustained on an expenditure level of less than Rs 32 a day, the poverty line for rural India, by the last headcount of the poor in India in 2013".


The attention and resources allocated for creating a space and nuclear energy programme could have been done for poverty alleviation or meeting the minimum needs of India’s poorest. When Sarabhai was asked if the space programme was relevant to the country that needed toilets more, he replied: "We can have a space programme and toilets."


While the space programme has been successful, the attempt to bring toilets to most Indians, however, has not. The World Bank estimates that inadequate sanitation causes India economic losses of $53.8 billion -- equivalent to 6.4 per cent of its GDP. These losses arise from health-related impacts, including premature deaths, the cost of treating disease and productive time lost due to illness, the impact of women not going to work due to related illnesses and of girls missing school. There is a serious shortage of functioning sewage treatment plants and the estimated 800 treatment plants across the country operate at around 30 per cent capacity.


When a fourth of 1.4 billion Indians live below the poverty line, can we be proud of this?

 
Sour grapes Son! Let's fix ourselves and then look at a country that is now 100 years ahead of us. Your thought process is evidence of that technological and educational gap. Where do you think most of our population takes a shit? there are no clean public toilets that we have provided. At the capital cost at which they have done this lunar landing, it is a miracle and a tremendous achievement that will cause other advancements and an increase in belief as a real nation-state. Let yourself not be the guy worried about toilets when your neighbor has aspirations to settle on Mars. Wipe your *** and study hard, try to catch up, and hold the corrupt politicians and generals to task.
 
Sour grapes Son! Let's fix ourselves and then look at a country that is now 100 years ahead of us. Your thought process is evidence of that technological and educational gap. Where do you think most of our population takes a shit? there are no clean public toilets that we have provided. At the capital cost at which they have done this lunar landing, it is a miracle and a tremendous achievement that will cause other advancements and an increase in belief as a real nation-state. Let yourself not be the guy worried about toilets when your neighbor has aspirations to settle on Mars. Wipe your *** and study hard, try to catch up, and hold the corrupt politicians and generals to task.
Problem with leftists is that their brains are filled with manure that fertilises pathogens instead of IQ. They will make regular talking points of "India should eradicate poverty instead of landing on lunar south pole" as if those $75 million would've fed the entire country and as if our space program hasn't created and supported jobs for thousands upon thousands and created a manufacturing ecosystem for space equipment and as if ISRO isn't generating huge amounts of profits by launching commercial satellites.

Their response to every development is "feed the poor" instead of building infrastructure or invest in future which will actually help the poor in real life as if Indian government isn't already providing food to the vulnerable 80 crore people since 2013. And since India's GDP growth rate is already the fastest among all major economies globally, we're eradicating poverty very fast.

Communism is a recipe to make poor countries remain poor, and since nobody subscribes to their BS they whine more online.

Even on the toilets and other fronts, he shouldn't be the one mocking us.
United Nations Multidimensional Poverty Index 2023 (Changes over time)
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Problem with leftists is that their brains are filled with manure that fertilises pathogens instead of IQ. They will make regular talking points of "India should eradicate poverty instead of landing on lunar south pole" as if those $75 million would've fed the entire country and as if our space program hasn't created and supported jobs for thousands upon thousands and created a manufacturing ecosystem for space equipment and as if ISRO isn't generating huge amounts of profits by launching commercial satellites.

Their response to every development is "feed the poor" instead of building infrastructure or invest in future which will actually help the poor in real life as if Indian government isn't already providing food to the vulnerable 80 crore people since 2013. And since India's GDP growth rate is already the fastest among all major economies globally, we're eradicating poverty very fast.

Communism is a recipe to make poor countries remain poor, and since nobody subscribes to their BS they whine more online.

Even on the toilets and other fronts, he shouldn't be the one mocking us.
United Nations Multidimensional Poverty Index 2023 (Changes over time)
View attachment 952429View attachment 952430View attachment 952432
View attachment 952433
View attachment 952431
One estimate is for every $1 spent on space research yields $45 in returns in economic activity.
 
On August 23, India made global news by landing its Chandrayaan-3 spacecraft on the hitherto unexplored south pole of the moon, becoming the first country in the world to do so.


"This moment is unforgettable. It is phenomenal. This is a victory cry of a new India," said an exultant Prime Minister Narendra Modi. He added that Isro’s moon mission was writing a new chapter in India’s space odyssey and elevating "the dreams and ambitions of every Indian".


Are the 1.4 billion Indians dreams and ambitions elevated by the space odyssey or the landing? The "space race" as it is called, was a race between the then Soviet Union (now Russia) and the United States, an outgrowth of the mid-20th-century Cold War, a conflict of ideologies of capitalism and communism. In 1957, the Soviet Union successfully sent Sputnik, the world’s first orbital satellite into space and a year later the US launched its first satellite, Explorer 1.


The race to the moon was just that, a race. In the context of the US, Michelle Hanlon, executive director of the Centre for Air and Space Law at the University of Mississippi, says: "We were just sort of rushing to get to be the first, get to the moon first. And that was all about prestige, geopolitics – who’s a better country? Whose system is working better?"

India as a newly independent nation in the early 1950s had ambitions of its own. Scientists like Homi Bhabha and Vikram Sarabhai, with the support of Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, worked to initiate the nuclear and space research programmes. Both were staunch nationalists, came from well-to-do industrialist families, studied in England, and believed that science and technology could leapfrog India into the 20th century, making it a global player. Leapfrogging is a phenomenon where a developing country can skip stages of the path taken by the industrial nations, enabling them to catch up sooner, particularly in terms of economic growth.


A space programme at this time seemed practical. "If we do not do it now, we will have to depend later on buying the knowhow from other countries at much greater cost. There are some who question the relevance of space activities in a developing nation. To us, there is no ambiguity of purpose," said Sarabhai.


The significance of India’s landing on the south pole of the moon is because of the water. According to Hanlon, for scientists it is important to be at the place where they are doing their scientific experiments and research. "We need to send people to the moon for long periods of time, and in order to do that, they need to have water. We can’t send them with all the water they need because that’s just simply too heavy. And water has to be separated into hydrogen and oxygen for use in propulsion, for space exploration beyond the universe, if we want to get to the asteroid belt, which have those rare earth metals that are going to make mining on Earth obsolete. To get the rockets to the asteroids a boost will be needed from the moon, as it would be cheaper."


Bhabha, Sarabhai and Nehru were talented and visionary men. However, their vision was slightly obscured by the stark reality of Indians emerging out of colonialism. The essential needs were housing, livelihoods, healthcare, electricity, water, schools and infrastructure, at every level.


India had entered the space race wanting to be included among the superpowers, not to be left behind as a poor nation. Being among the greats stems from a sense of inferiority, camouflaged as superiority. Neither the Soviet Union or the United States have shown much greatness as superpowers and global leaders in their own and other countries, strategically meddling and instigating conflict and war. This continues.


What can Indians be proud of today? Besides the moon landing, some advancements in the standard of living, a modern economy, part of the globalised world and muddling along despite the many challenges it faces. We can be prouder if we bring more people out of poverty, making livelihoods, education, health and sanitation a serious priority. A 2020 World Economic Forum study found "some 220 million Indians sustained on an expenditure level of less than Rs 32 a day, the poverty line for rural India, by the last headcount of the poor in India in 2013".


The attention and resources allocated for creating a space and nuclear energy programme could have been done for poverty alleviation or meeting the minimum needs of India’s poorest. When Sarabhai was asked if the space programme was relevant to the country that needed toilets more, he replied: "We can have a space programme and toilets."


While the space programme has been successful, the attempt to bring toilets to most Indians, however, has not. The World Bank estimates that inadequate sanitation causes India economic losses of $53.8 billion -- equivalent to 6.4 per cent of its GDP. These losses arise from health-related impacts, including premature deaths, the cost of treating disease and productive time lost due to illness, the impact of women not going to work due to related illnesses and of girls missing school. There is a serious shortage of functioning sewage treatment plants and the estimated 800 treatment plants across the country operate at around 30 per cent capacity.


When a fourth of 1.4 billion Indians live below the poverty line, can we be proud of this?



For 5 kg atta

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This is why I am glad Pakistan has no space program. I mean even Brazil, France, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Australia, Nordic countries never did this, and they're much richer than us. So why on Earth should we?


Stop your supari and co . Full of Generals who are there for military PT and parade , not for space and scientific researches .They are wasting money. do not waste your money on suparco , use it on bijali ka bill , buy atta for hungry public .

Chairmen of SUPARCO
NumberNameTerm Ended
8Major General Raza Hussain2010
9Major General Ahmed Bilal2016
10Major General Qaiser Anees Khurram2018
11Major General Amer NadeemPresen
 
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This is why I am glad Pakistan has no space program. I mean even Brazil, France, Germany, South Korea, Japan, Australia, Nordic countries never did this, and they're much richer than us. So why on Earth should we?
Japan has an advanced space program JAXA. Europe also has the European Space Agency. Brazil doesn't even have a proper government but created its own space agency in 1994. South Korea has a lunar exploration program KLEP. The Australian Space Agency is fairly recent and is headquartered in Adelaide.

The Indian space program seems to be more successful than many of these.
 
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Japan has an advanced space program JAXA. Europe also has the European Space Agency. Brazil doesn't even have a proper government but created its own space agency in 1994. South Korea has a lunar exploration program KLEP. The Australian Space Agency is fairly recent and is headquartered in Adelaide.

The Indian space program seems to be more successful than many of these.

They didn't send rockets to the moon or the sun despite having more toilets, more infrastructure, much less poverty. So why on Earth should Pakistan engage in space exploration?

That is my point. Yet a country with more poverty than all of them combined is sending rockets there. Why on Earth should Pakistan bother with a space program?

Stop your supari and co . .They are wasting money. do not waste your money on suparco , use it on bijali ka bill , buy atta for hungry public .

Exactly. That advise is exactly what I give to the people of Bharat.
 
They didn't send rockets to the moon or the sun despite having more toilets, more infrastructure, much less poverty. So why on Earth should Pakistan engage in space exploration?

That is my point. Yet a country with more poverty than all of them combined is sending rockets there. Why on Earth should Pakistan bother with a space program?



Exactly. That advise is exactly what I give to the people of Bharat.
Because we are earning more money than we are spending , and we are earning a lot of money by scientific advancement .we don't give job to army generals for space research , accept your mistake , we have our own communication satellites.
 
They didn't send rockets to the moon or the sun despite having more toilets, more infrastructure, much less poverty. So why on Earth should Pakistan engage in space exploration?

That is my point. Yet a country with more poverty than all of them combined is sending rockets there. Why on Earth should Pakistan bother with a space program?
First , Even though these countries have not sent rockets to the moon or sun they have been spending much more on space than India, especially Japan which spends billions. (I think Japan had a Venus mission which failed)

Second, why should it matter to us how India spends its money? They have not asked us to subsidize them.

Third, they also have a nascent private space industry (start ups) on the back of the public one, which may well bring billions into the country in future.

Fourth, again its their money.
 
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Of course they can. Look at us, we built a nuclear bomb. Yet we are broke
 

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