India could buy up to 189 French Rafale fighter jets: sources

[Koovie]

Awesome news

 

[Ambitious449]

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

 

[newdelhinsa]

If could/would have been decision maker, IAF pilots would have been training by now in France for the first squadron.

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

Except USA no one has, and then we have invested in 5th gen with 2-3 prototypes already flying.

 

[Koovie]

Actually the increase makes ONLY sense, if we order them directly from France now and not only 18, or as a follow order at the end. That would give us the chance to induct Rafale faster, replace Mig 21s earlier, get a tactical advantage against opponents and give HAL more time to set up the licence production of the rest in India later.
A follow on order doesn't make sense, because they would be produced in a time, when LCA MK2 and FGFA are expected to be in production as well. The one is the more cost-effective solution, with similar generation of techs, the other is a more capable NG fighter, so depending on what is needed, one one of them would be the better choice by then.

Yeah sure .................IAF wont buy more than 40 MKIIs.

If someone ones to bet on that, I am ready.

 

[R0H1T]

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

As of now only the US has a true fifth gen fighter(F22) then you also have F35 which is a poor man's raptor(sort of) after which us(Rus+Ind) & the CN are also developing such tech, but I don't see any of'em being ready to be inducted for battle ops into their respective AF squadrons anytime before 2020 at the earliest !

 

[Yeti]

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

Cost of a 5th gen fighter like PAK-FA will be like $100 million per unit (not to mention the cost of maintenance) , the Chinese already have 200+ J-10 fighters that they have produced & God knows how many more they will build. The Rafale are true omni-role aircraft that can switch from one role to another with ease depending on the mission requirements.

It will go hand in hand with Air superiority fighters like the FGFA to safeguard our airspace from whatever comes our way.


Most important thing about the MRCA tender was to get access to the best technology and weapons we can not to mention the offsets (50% of the value of the MRCA contract has to be invested back in India) this will go a long way to improve our defence industry.

 

[arp2041]

Whats new in this news?

The NEW in this NEWS is that the IAF/MOD can end up going for a single order of 189 Rafales rather than going for 2 separate (126+63) orders to save time, money, infrastructure etc.

 

[ANPP]

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

Well USAF is the only entity in the world & and perhaps also Canada which are introdusing 5gen fighters. In Russia,China & remaining world 5gen is only in development.

In IAF contrast, 5gen fighter delivery will start by 2020. PAKFA will go production by 2014 but that model doesnt posses all features which was illustrated earlier.

procurement of Rafale lead by 2 main factor-
1)-Too many obsolete plane in IAF which already lose their importance.
2)-There is no medium weight 5gen fighter in market.

So Rafale is the best tactical choice for IAF.

 

[Iggy]

Make it a round figure MOD.. Lets go for 200

 

[arp2041]

@ Abingdonboy
did you think is good for IAF to go addition 63 rafale coze HAL did not complete the 108 a/c before 2022 and at that time FGFA is in production, did you think it is better to buy 5gen(FGFA) then 4.5(Rafale)

I am not weapon expert. But I have simple doubt. If major powers in the world already moved on fifth generation planes why are we spending so much on fourth and half generation planes? I know we are developing 5th generation plane with Russia but again why not buy fifth generation plane instead of Rafale? please answer. and don't laugh about my lack of knowledge ; )

No AF in the world (doubt even the US) will become an all-5th gen AF for atleast next 3 decades, like IAF & PLAAF are still operating 3.5 gen ac when the world has moved onto 4.5 gen ones. Besides even if we are developing 5th gen ac than all 200+ will take atleast a decade (by 2030) to be inducted & IAF needs 800+ ac to fulfill it's squadron strength, so where should we fill this massive gap from?? we can't be a sitting duck for next 2-3 decades till we can get fgfa in sufficient nos.

 

[Abingdonboy]

@Abingdonboy I was thinking the same thing that could this extra order of Rafales be for the nuclear triad ?



Last month on June 19, the French Air Force demonstrated a nuclear deterrent capability by test-firing the MBDA ASMP-A stand off nuclear capable cruise missile. The mission lasted five hours and involved pilots from the 113 Air Base conducting a mid-air refueling, a high-altitude cruise phase, and a dived low-altitude phase to enter enemy territory.

I wouldn't expect these 63 to be for SFC-'this would have to be a seperate order later down the road. These 63 are purely for the IAF to meet its declining fleet size.

Actually the increase makes ONLY sense, if we order them directly from France now and not only 18, or as a follow order at the end. That would give us the chance to induct Rafale faster, replace Mig 21s earlier, get a tactical advantage against opponents and give HAL more time to set up the licence production of the rest in India later.
A follow on order doesn't make sense, because they would be produced in a time, when LCA MK2 and FGFA are expected to be in production as well. The one is the more cost-effective solution, with similar generation of techs, the other is a more capable NG fighter, so depending on what is needed, one one of them would be the better choice by then.

@sancho this is what I meant- these 63 should be produced by Dassulat and delivered to the IAF parallel to HAL's knocked-down or semi-knocked down units. Like you say this way the IAF is getting closer to 2 times more Rafales a year. If HAL can produce 1 SQD of Rafales a year (I hope they can do much better than this) then with the aid of Dassualt the IAF can be inducting 2+ SQDs of Rafales a year.

@Abingdonboy I was thinking the same thing that could this extra order of Rafales be for the nuclear triad ?



Last month on June 19, the French Air Force demonstrated a nuclear deterrent capability by test-firing the MBDA ASMP-A stand off nuclear capable cruise missile. The mission lasted five hours and involved pilots from the 113 Air Base conducting a mid-air refueling, a high-altitude cruise phase, and a dived low-altitude phase to enter enemy territory.

Make it a round figure MOD.. Lets go for 200

It is not the MoD that decides on the numbers of such orders but the military. It is the IAF that has come up with the 189 number based on their own needs and force structure. 200 may actually be an awkward number for the IAF as the extra 11 are too small for a full SQD but is too many for war reserves.

 

[trident2010]

I will be more happy if rather than speculations, they sign the contract first. Talking big before singing a contract is not good. Order 189 planes and get first 50 directly from France. Rest can be manufactured at HAL.

 

[DroneMailini]

This is a Good News. Can any one tell what ammunition we are buying other than advanced MBDA air to air missile? Time to finalize this deal. India also needs to 50 More Apache Helicopters.

 

[anant_s]

One of things that could have tilted IAFs decession in favor of Rafale is the fact that this Fighter has just begun its journey in terms of development life. As future developments come about and incorporated in, the fighter will only get more lethal.
Further the news could be music to french negotiators and they might want to sweeten the deal.
More importantly the deal seems to be on track and hope its time to pop Bubbly soon

 

[arp2041]

Make it a round figure MOD.. Lets go for 200

Though I would love it but an IAF squadron consists of 18 ac (16 single seater & 2 trainers), so original 126 were needed to raise 7 squadrons & additional orders for 3 more, but that would had made a total figure to 180 ac, don't know what for that etc. 9 are???

@Abingdonboy @sancho , 9 for TACDE??

Or may be i am wrong & a squadron will consist of 21 ac to raise 9 squads in all.

What seems to have been forgotton is the SFC's requirement for its own fleet of 40 fighter bombers, I wonder if this requirment will be filled by the Rafale in lare follow-on orders?

I thought they wanted MKIs to do the job??