India could buy up to 189 French Rafale fighter jets: sources

[karan.1970]

Who knows when FGFA will be in production. Better with 1 bird at hand and 2 birds yet to hatch.

Best with "1 in hand and when 2 will hatch, I will have 3"

 

[Nishan_101]

India could buy up to 189 French Rafale fighter jets: sources​

Paris: India could buy up to 189 of the Rafale fighter jets currently being used by France to bomb Islamist militants in Mali, sources close to negotiations on the multi-billion dollar deal have told AFP.

The possibility of an additional 63 jets being added to an expected order for 126 was raised by India when Foreign Minister Salman Khurshid visited Paris last week, they said.

"There is an option for procurement of an additional 63 aircrafts subsequently for which a separate contract would need to be signed," a source said.

Presently the contract under negotiation is for 126 aircraft but we are talking about the follow-up."

The Indian press has estimated the value of the deal for 126 Rafales at $12 billion (nine billion euros).

A 50 per cent increase in the number of planes ordered would take it to around $18 billion, in a huge boost for the French defence industry.

India selected French manufacturer Dassault Aviation as its preferred candidate to equip its air force with new fighter jets in January 2012.

Under the deal on the table, the first 18 Rafales would be built in France but the next 108 would be assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

"The first aircraft will be delivered three years after signature of the contract," the source added.

India could buy up to 189 French Rafale fighter jets: sources | NDTV.com

So, India will buy the additional Rafales too over and above 126

Surely IAF will buy at least 200+ Rafael very soon

 

[nithin]

Surely IAF will buy at least 200+ Rafael very soon

beta paise tumhare babuji denge

 

[jha]

But Jairam Ramesh must be pulling his hair out considering that he wanted the money to buy toilets instead!!

Hahahaha.. Well said...

France seems to be Israel of 2010s.... Lets see how much our own Industry gains from the collaborations with them.

 

[KS]

Actually what is the use of 40 fighters for SFC ?

SFC by definition would be limited to nuke delivery and theoretically there are only two fronts where they can possibly be used. Chinese front and Pakistan front.

Chinese front : realistically there is no chance that it will be needed here given the concentration of Chinese population centers far east of the border, the huge airforce that China is building up and quality SAMs that it has invested in.

Pakistan front : given the narrow breadth of Pakistan even the Shortest range missiles like Prithvi are more than sufficient to cover the important targets,population centers in Pakistan.

Also Indian missile development capability has grown by leaps and bounds thus giving an effective delivery mechanism,, thus making the bombers redundant.

Given all these does SFC really need 40 top notch fighters at approx $4 billion dollars for developing a fleet that will most probably never be used in the intended role ? Instead of that we can better invest in transport or AWACS within the airforce itself or in providing better fighting equipments like top-notch BPJs, better combat boots, better comm equipments, NVGs etc to the soldiers which actually make the most difference in ground fighting.

 

[Dushmann]

Under the deal on the table, the first 18 Rafales would be built in France but the next 108 would be assembled in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd.

why did they use the word?

 

[sancho]

I feel though that 40 high performance fighters (whether MKI or Rafale) for SFC is far too many. IIRC these were going to be completly seperate from the entire IAF fleet and would be the SFC's very own fighters meaning they wouldn't nessercarily take part in a conventional offensive/defence conflict. Having 40 such fighters sitting around idle seems like a waste. Maybe I've got it wrong or the reports were misleading and the IAF would do what the FrAF do ie have x amount of fighters/pilots trained and ready for nuclear strike but they are still a part of the regular fleet. If this is the case then of these 189 or even the MKI's 272 40 could be hard-wired for nuke strike.

Not to mention that you can't make our these fighters, if they are included in the normal squadrons, instead having them all at one place.

Also Indian missile development capability has grown by leaps and bounds thus giving an effective delivery mechanism,, thus making the bombers redundant.

It is one part of our nuklear deterrence, to have different launch plattforms in case our missiles for example were destroyed in a first strike.

 

[KS]

It is one part of our nuklear deterrence, to have different launch plattforms in case our missiles for example were destroyed in a first strike.

Saaar isnt taking out 40 big targets (fighters) much easier than taking out road and rail mobile launchers dispersed throughout the country ?

 

[janon]

Saaar isnt taking out 40 big targets (fighters) much easier than taking out road and rail mobile launchers dispersed throughout the country ?

We are talking about the SFC, not regular IAF squadrons. These birds wont be deployed together in an operational air base like regular air force squadrons. They will be deployed in small flights of approx. 4 aircrafts each in concealed locations across the country, with the sole purpose of delivering nukes in wartime. Their pilots will constantly train for that role. Not even regular air force personnel will know much about the geographical location of these flights. That is why they belong to the SFC, and not to the air force.

Also, it is not a question of whether to have missiles or aircrafts. We will have both. We aim to be ready to deliver nukes by all possible means, whether by missiles or dumb bombs dropped by aircrafts. Hence the need for 40 aircrafts for the SFC.

 

[KS]

We are talking about the SFC, not regular IAF squadrons. These birds wont be deployed together in an operational air base like regular air force squadrons. They will be deployed in small flights of approx. 4 aircrafts each in concealed locations across the country, with the sole purpose of delivering nukes in wartime. Their pilots will constantly train for that role. Not even regular air force personnel will know much about the geographical location of these flights. That is why they belong to the SFC, and not to the air force.

Also, it is not a question of whether to have missiles or aircrafts. We will have both. We aim to be ready to deliver nukes by all possible means, whether by missiles or dumb bombs dropped by aircrafts. Hence the need for 40 aircrafts for the SFC.

Which brings to my initial question - is it practically possible for fighters to traverse the width of China to deliver the bombs on Chinese nerve centers which are mostly along the east coast,, given Chinese vast network of SAMs and a numerically superior PLAAF or it is even necessary in case of Pakistan when any missile in indian inventory reach all of Pakistan's nerve centers which are just across the borders..

 

[janon]

Which brings to my initial question - is it practically possible for fighters to traverse the width of China to deliver the bombs on Chinese nerve centers which are mostly along the east coast,, given Chinese vast network of SAMs and a numerically superior PLAAF or it is even necessary in case of Pakistan when any missile in indian inventory reach all of Pakistan's nerve centers which are just across the borders..

The Indian armed forces are striving to be capability-centric, not enemy-centric as in the past. It is always good to have options. They want to have the capability to deliver nukes by air, land and sea, and by every means possible. So that even in the case of a devastating first strike, they have all options on the table to nuke back the offender severalfold.

Suppose the enemy (whoever it may be) has taken out all our command and control centers, or satellites, so that we can't launch missiles anymore. Or suppose that we have fired a few agnis, but they have been intercepted by ABMs. What do we do?

MKIs and Rafales flying low (in terrain hugging mode) and fast, with refueling, will still pose a threat to distant cities. It is difficult, but not impossible. It is better to have difficult options, than to have no options at all.

Not to mention the fact that if the enemy knows that we have 40 state of the art aircrafts dispersed throughout the country, all wired with nuclear bombs/missiles, they will think several times before attempting to nuke us.

 

[Iggy]

It is not the MoD that decides on the numbers of such orders but the military. It is the IAF that has come up with the 189 number based on their own needs and force structure. 200 may actually be an awkward number for the IAF as the extra 11 are too small for a full SQD but is too many for war reserves.

Fine, order 200 plus

 

[surya kiran]

Which brings to my initial question - is it practically possible for fighters to traverse the width of China to deliver the bombs on Chinese nerve centers which are mostly along the east coast,, given Chinese vast network of SAMs and a numerically superior PLAAF or it is even necessary in case of Pakistan when any missile in indian inventory reach all of Pakistan's nerve centers which are just across the borders..

Deployment of bombers to attack chinese cities if required will not fly from mainland India.

 

[KS]

The Indian armed forces are striving to be capability-centric, not enemy-centric as in the past. It is always good to have options. They want to have the capability to deliver nukes by air, land and sea, and by every means possible. So that even in the case of a devastating first strike, they have all options on the table to nuke back the offender severalfold.

Suppose the enemy (whoever it may be) has taken out all our command and control centers, or satellites, so that we can't launch missiles anymore. Or suppose that we have fired a few agnis, but they have been intercepted by ABMs. What do we do?

MKIs and Rafales flying low (in terrain hugging mode) and fast, with refueling, will still pose a threat to distant cities. It is difficult, but not impossible. It is better to have difficult options, than to have no options at all.

Not to mention the fact that if the enemy knows that we have 40 state of the art aircrafts dispersed throughout the country, all wired with nuclear bombs/missiles, they will think several times before attempting to nuke us.

Honestly that is a very weak reasoning. If a nation is capable of shooting down multiple advanced ICBMs, then its a no brainer that they can shoot down any juicy aircrafts too.

While I recognize the need to have a strong and credible deterrence, we are neither USA or Soviet Union with overarching global ambitions and our interests in the forseaable future is limited to this part of Asia..i.e., our potential enemies for the next 30 odd years would be Pakistan and China alone. Even if new threats arise, then these Rafales are not going to be of much use beyond their ferry range of about 4000 kms and even that is one a one way suicide mission. So it is entirely relevant to limit the scope of the threat analysis to China and Pakistan. And going by that I still feel that spending such a huge amount of maintaining a fleet that does not provide any added advantage is not worth it.

And afaik, the missiles use GPS systems and in future maybe GLOSNASS system and there is no way China is going to knock up US or Russian satellites. So that scenario does not even arise..And if its Russia and America we are gonna fight with, then these 40 Rafales arent going to make a big difference either..

Also we are still a developing country and 4 billion is a pretty huge sum which can be invested in much more 'immediate' needs like better equipments for the infantry or if the AF does not feel like parting with this money can be used in force multipliers like AWACS, SAMs or even invested in R&D of radars etc.

Deployment of bombers to attack chinese cities if required will not fly from mainland India.

Then from where ?

 

[kurup]

Can somebody tell me why we always buy aircrafts in random numbers like 126 , 189 ??

Why not 120 or 200 ??