India copying Pakistani/Western Culture

[roadrunner]

There is no one way to look "Indian". With the number of different races and subraces India has got, you really can't pick one type of features for India.

Try looking at pictures of tribals from Chhattisgarh and tell me if they look anything like the rest of the Indians.
They go look at pictures of models from Meghalaya and Manipur.

That's not true. 90% of Indians look the same. Look at any street scene from Bangalore to Punjab and they all look the same. The race/subrace thing is generally just a load of nonsense. Everyone in India is pretty mixed by now. Mixing is inevitable, with or without a caste system.

 

[roadrunner]

Er..its kinda understood that good looking people are chosen for TV and movies?

Well, I'm talking about the features of those on TV. They're not the same as the Indian population's features. Generally, they're selected on the basis of people who look more Pakistani imo. I rarely see a Vedided Indian in Bollywood. And forget about good looking, bad looking for now.

 

[Flintlock]

That's not true. 90% of Indians look the same. Look at any street scene from Bangalore to Punjab and they all look the same. The race/subrace thing is generally just a load of nonsense. Everyone in India is pretty mixed by now. Mixing is inevitable, with or without a caste system.

Bangalore and Delhi are metropolitan cities. Perhaps a visit to the villages would serve your purposes better.

 

[Flintlock]

That's not true. 90% of Indians look the same. Look at any street scene from Bangalore to Punjab and they all look the same. The race/subrace thing is generally just a load of nonsense. Everyone in India is pretty mixed by now. Mixing is inevitable, with or without a caste system.

Don't tell me that a Marathi guy and a Kerelite look the same. Not to mention Punjabis and Bengalis and Kashmiris and Manipuris and Gorkhas and Himachalis, Rajputs, Gujaratis, Marwaris, Parsis.

Perhaps you can say that people from the "cow belt" in UP+MP look the same. But what percentage of the Indian population do they make up? Are they supposed to be the "real Indians'?

 

[Flintlock]

Well, I'm talking about the features of those on TV. They're not the same as the Indian population's features.

Well, they are. Being an Indian, and being around Indians, I think I have a better idea of what they look like.

Generally, they're selected on the basis of people who look more Pakistani imo. I rarely see a Vedided Indian in Bollywood. And forget about good looking, bad looking for now.

Thats a sweeping statement if I"ve ever heard one. Try looking beyond Salman Khan and Shahrukh Khan.

 

[Scorpius]

Dude, its called the modern globalized culture. Why single out India? Look at Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Japan, Europe. They are all influenced by american culture. I don't understand why you guys consider it some sort of cheap thing to do.

As far as skin colour is concerned, you will have to look a little harder to notice that beautiful women are choosen for TV irrespective of skin colour. India's most popular actresses are Kajol, Bipasha Basu, Deepika Padukone, Shushmita Sen, all with dark skin.

Yes we are all influenced by American culture and i'll tell you why I think its quite cheap that people try to emulate it and make it there own.

For a start every nation has its own culture and ethos, and patriots of every nation don't like to see there culture usurped by foreigners. Yes due to the internet each country is now becoming closer and to a degree culture is becoming similar. But that doesn't mean you should try to emulate them.

Secondly have you saw some of the american kids shows? They show 10 year olds wearing bikinis and the like, do you think this is acceptable?

I am far from religious but many people including white english born ppl are disgusted by stuff like that.

 

[Black Stone]

This is actually good news from the American perspective as our culture is spreading and adapted around the world.

But I do still hope the countries adapting our culture still keep their unique cultures for in their respective countries. Afterall, this is what makes individual countries around the world unique.

It would be a shame that this uniqueness and specialty being lost.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Aryan and Stealth:

There are quite a few Pakistanis who do care about their entire history, not just the Islamic part, and there are several people on this forum who do - though RR may be the most vociferous one. It is a sweeping generalization to suggest that "Pakistani historians do not care for pre-Islamic history". No true historian could neglect such an important aspect of a nations history, but what goes into our textbooks isn't decided by historians, it is determined by politicians, and those choices have left a lot of us poorer in knowing our history.

This is something Musharraf has attempted to reform, and the revamped syllabus is supposed to contain plenty of references to our pre-Islamic history - though I final judgment on how qualitative the improvements are has to wait till the first texts come out.

 

[roadrunner]

Don't tell me that a Marathi guy and a Kerelite look the same. Not to mention Punjabis and Bengalis and Kashmiris and Manipuris and Gorkhas and Himachalis, Rajputs, Gujaratis, Marwaris, Parsis.

Perhaps you can say that people from the "cow belt" in UP+MP look the same. But what percentage of the Indian population do they make up? Are they supposed to be the "real Indians'?

There is not this big differences among the Indian ethnic groups as you make out. Generally, they've mixed up. A Bengali and a Punjabi are extremes of Indian looks. If you exclude the fringes of India, most of the people are the same in look, Vedided. To be honest, if you get a picture of a street from Bengal, Calcutta, stick it up, I would not be able to tell whether it was from central India, Uttar Pradesh, South India, Bangalore, Calcuta, or even Delhi to an extent (Delhi perhaps just about).

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Aryan and Stealth:

There are quite a few Pakistanis who do care about their entire history, not just the Islamic part, and there are several people on this forum who do - though RR may be the most vociferous one. It is a sweeping generalization to suggest that "Pakistani historians do not care for pre-Islamic history". No true historian could neglect such an important aspect of a nations history, but what goes into our textbooks isn't decided by historians, it is determined by politicians, and those choices have left a lot of us poorer in knowing our history.

This is something Musharraf has attempted to reform, and the revamped syllabus is supposed to contain plenty of references to our pre-Islamic history - though I final judgment on how qualitative the improvements are has to wait till the first texts come out.

New Islamabad airport name will be Gandhara. So u r right that many Pakistanis do care about their ancient History and numbers will only grow.

 

[roadrunner]

New Islamabad airport name will be Gandhara. So u r right that many Pakistanis do care about their ancient History and numbers will only grow.

Good point. I like the new name.

 

[aryan2007]

What's wrong with what Imran said? From what I could understand he's got it right about India, ie the desire to be western or whatever.

what western?? we are shedding some of our evil customs and you equate it to being western???

Indians don't have a desire to be tribal or to show that they are religious..or feel the need to carry guns or have big moustache to prove their martial heritage.... you have some stupid Rajput Kings trying to relive the splendour of the Raj to attract tourists its contemptuous...
I don't practise dowry, or child marriage, or wear Indian clothes, or have a full beard, or practise honour killing, or arranged marriages, or caste marriagesl or wear Shalwar Kameez all the time, or speak Punjabi all the time or carry weapons etc.. etc..

I enjoy watching both English films and hindi films, I still listen to Indian Music, I still speak my mothertongue, I still follow my family traditions etc..

How are we western?? we are still a very conservative society... though we are changing and that is for the better....

One way this is manifested is as he said the actors on tv and the skin colour compared to the average Indian. Or the mannerisms and language they try to emulate.

Globalization might be occurring. But generally most countries retain the character of their films. When I watch Singaporean TV, or Malay TV, the presenters, the actors, actresses, all look Singaporean or Malay. It's not like in India, where the actors and actresses look nothing like Indians. Generally, the more prominent non Dravidian features are favoured, and lighter skin is manipulated in movies on the whole. I don't see Japanese using caucasian actors. Generally, Japanese movies and presenters all look Japanese.I agree with Imran Khan.

Who mentioned anything about good-looking? All I said was that Indians on TV (specifically Bollywood), do not share the features of the Indian population at all. Where did I mention they were good looking or not?


Dude have you seen Telugu, Tamil, Bhojpuri, gujarati, marathi, kannada, malaylee films???

Bollywood films are most popular in North India and in Hindi and Urdu speaking communities mind you only 25-30% of Indians claim Hindi as their mother tongue.. and if these guys are of a different colour then I am sorry... (I am sure its lesser) .. and they are less popular than South Film Industry movies...
they make money from overseas mostly...

mannerisms and languages depends . a Sunny Deol film will have crude dialogues and mannerisms which do well in Rural areas.. a SRK film will appeal to mostly middle class.. a Govinda film to anyone in for mindless humour..etc.. etc.. it also depends on the theme.. like Umrao Jaan had dialogues in propah Urdu, Bheja Fry was in English and Hindi both.. Satya had crude Mumbaiya gangsta Hindi etc, etc,

Bollywood movies actors are generally more fair skinned than an avg Indian but the same tone as an avg North Indian because this is where they come from ...

Go down south and you ll see some blacker than black dudes as filmstars...

"mera kala hai sadar goray nu daffa karo"

True heritage?
Our true heritage is a Islamic heritage and the pre islamic heritage. We are not hindus or sikhs, we are muslims and as such that is a big part of our heritage.

My heritage is not only limited to religion, but also to the country, the land, the culture and the people....

Being a Rajput I am very proud of Rajput heroes such as Raja Porus or Chauhan.

Raja Porus was a Khukrain Khatri...
Though my Gothra acc. to some guy is Chauhan..

However we do emphasise the Islamic aspect more as that is more recent and religion is considered more important then many other aspects.

Religion is something personal.. Ancestry is something different...
You are a proud Rajput and a proud Pakistani and a proud muslim but you rank being a muslim higher..

for me being a Sikh and Indian is the same.. I would actually go with being Indian higher than being a Sikh.. because if I wasn't an Indian I couldn't be a Sikh.. and If I couldn't be a Sikh.. I couldn't be an Indian..

This is a problem however as Pakistan progresses I believe it will discover itself, it already has a unique identity. Whatever ethnicity we are sindhi, balochi, punjabi, pathan we are all proud to call ourselves Pakistanis.

As road runner said that there is nothing common b/w Indians and Pakistanis.. the same way.. Baloch have nothing common with a Punjabi.. how can you and he be proud Pakistanis??? what is common to you guys??? Baloch have had a different history then you guys.. Baloch are Iranic people.. Punjabis are Indo-aryan ...

 

[aryan2007]

So India has copied the origin and history of Pakistan to theirs and making it so called Mahabharata history etc..

Mahabharata is Pakistani?? I couldn't care less.. it is a treasure trove of knowledge and many of the Indian and Pakistani families believe their ancestors to have been mentioned in the Mahabharata....

Mahabharata's traditions, customs etc.. are followed even to this day and are the basis of most of the customs which are practised widely in India...
so Mahabharata for an Indian esp a Hindu is as dear as the Quran is to a
Muslim irresp of where he lives or where it was written or where it took place...

I think Imran Khans explains it well.

Indians have not been westernised..
we still have our traditions.. we still speak our language, we still don't eat pork or beef ;-), we have adapted the american ways such as burgers to our own like Chicken tikka burger etc.., we still wear our traditional clothers, people still go to the religious places still follow their customs and still honour their Indianness...

I think Imran Khan doesnot follow up his words with his actions.. why did he go abroad to study?? why did he have kids outside a wedlock?? why was he divorced?? ... I would like to believe this is not common in Pakistan.

With the images like these... You see that Pakistani history started from the west and went to the east, and later Indians claimed the history and named it / tied it with their religion so it is easy and justified to claim.

We don't claim any ancient Bharat history, infact its other way around. Can you dispute this fact that so called ancient Indian civilizations which u are so proud of like Indus vally originated in Pak?
So it will be better for u guys to stick with ancient Bharat history. Oh i forgot one thing since IVC is one of the greatest civilizations of the ancient world and no ancient Bharat civilization comes close to it, the reason hiduvatva claim IVC.

Pakistani history has existed only from 1947 onwards.. rest is all ancient Indian history.. rest of the Pakistani heritage and history is common to Indians.. and as an Indian I have no problems if Pakistanis claim it as their own.. without sidestepping my claims!!

No disrespect but If Islam would not have spread here do you think we would have been divided?? i think not...

Mahabharata, Ramyana has been there for milleniums.. Pakistan is a creation just 60 years old. and you are suggesting that Indians changed their fundamental beliefs so that they can prove to the Pakistanis that Pakistan was indeed a part of India??? no proofs required.. else it would not have been called Partition but Independence of 2 neighbouring countries.. people would have migrated .. Look at Burma it was divested from IIndia no one raised an eyebrow it was not called a partition..

Epic India

[/quote]
THose are names of the Kingdoms and its people who were mercenaries and allies of the 2 kings who were fighting listed near Delhi as Kuru east and west...
Kurus were the main protagonists of Mahabharata...

 

[aryan2007]

That's not true. 90% of Indians look the same. Look at any street scene from Bangalore to Punjab and they all look the same. The race/subrace thing is generally just a load of nonsense. Everyone in India is pretty mixed by now. Mixing is inevitable, with or without a caste system.

Well, I'm talking about the features of those on TV. They're not the same as the Indian population's features. Generally, they're selected on the basis of people who look more Pakistani imo. I rarely see a Vedided Indian in Bollywood. And forget about good looking, bad looking for now.

Dude NO...
Mixing is impossible.. Hindus and Sikh usually marry amongst their caste after considering gothra etc.... a Jatt Sikh doesnot marry a Rajput Sikh.. a Punjabi Rajput does not marry a Rajasthani Rajput.. a Rajasthani Hindu rajput of Sisodia clan will not marry a Rajasthan Hindu Rajput of Kachchwa Clan(I need to check this out)...
families intermarries with only a few select subcastes from within a regional caste and that subcaste is scrutinised on the basis of Mother's and father's gothra so that inbreeding doesn't take place....

One can easily differentiate b/w people as one can differentiate b/w a Abbasi of Abbotabad and a Sindhi from Larkana...(BB is half Kurdish btw)

Well, I'm talking about the features of those on TV. They're not the same as the Indian population's features. Generally, they're selected on the basis of people who look more Pakistani imo. I rarely see a Vedided Indian in Bollywood. And forget about good looking, bad looking for now.

Dude Bollywood films cater to Hindi speaking population... and these guys are in the North.. and in Bombay...
Cow belt usually don't get movies
SOuth Movies are made for South.. and since you don't watch 'em you think all of India watches SRK movies.. NO...
Bollywood is representative of North Indians..
all the film actors are Punjabis and these Punjabis are north indians..

list of dissamilarities amongst Punjabi actors in Bollywood

Govinda is Punjabi and whetish subcaste Khatri
Akshay Kumar is Punjabi and fair subcaste Khatri
Ajay Devgun is Punjabi and dark subcaste Tirkhan
Priyanka Chopra is Punjabi and dark Subcaste Khatri
Kareena is Punjabi and fair subcaste Khatri
Neha Dhupia is Punjabi and wheatish subcaste Khatri

they are all very popular actors.. even people of a subcaste like Khatri which number around 4-5 million have such variations....

Now biggest superstar of India is Rajnikanth.. massive fanfollowing in South.. and is actually a Marathi North INdian Indo-aryan.

now tell me does he look Pakistani??

 

[aryan2007]

New Islamabad airport name will be Gandhara. So u r right that many Pakistanis do care about their ancient History and numbers will only grow.

Hopefully.. so that you realise how much of a shared culture exists between us and you..