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India, China's rivalry and a tale of two ports

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angeldemon_007

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India and China's quest for clout and resources extends across the globe, but perhaps the best manifestation of this fierce competition, and possible sign of who will ultimately win, lies in a tale of two ports.

The port of Chabahar in the southwest corner of Iran, which India is hoping will win it access to Central Asia and Afghanistan, is barely 72km (44 mile) from Pakistan's deep-water Gwadar port which China has built to secure its energy supplies.

The dueling ports on the doorstep of Gulf shipping lanes are another strand in the race between the Asian giants to project influence beyond their shores, and seek resources to feed their fast growing economies, that has seen them compete for contracts from Africa to Latin America to even Afghanistan.

"These civilian ports are about China and India trying to advance their interests and diversify their trade and access points," says Rory Medcalf, a specialist on international security at Australia's Lowy Institute.

"But these could well become elements in a wider competitive dynamic between China and India."

In trying to develop the two strategic ports, India and China are up against unsettled regional conditions in both Iran and Pakistan and their own limited resources and influence, more so in the case of India than China.

For years, Indian officials say they have been urging the Iranians to expedite work on the Chabahar port facilities to handle specialised cargoes, warehouses and proper disembarkation arrangements so it can become a trading hub.

While the port is functional, it has a capacity of only 2.5 million tons per year, against the target of 12 million tons. Iran has declared Chabahar, located in its Sistan-Baluchestan province, a free trade zone.

At their last meeting in July, the Indian side told Iran a thriving port near one of the world's fastest growing regions was in the interest of Tehran, the Central Asian republics, Afghanistan and of course India. The Iranian side said they were committed to its development.

"But this is exactly what we said four years ago," said an Indian government official. "There has been hardly any movement since then," the official, said on condition of anonymity because he was involved with the discussions.

Indian officials now believe that Iranian reluctance to move faster on Chabahar may linked to its anxieties about the troubled Sistan-Baluchestan region where Shi'ite Muslim Iran is trying to put down a Sunni Muslim insurgency.

"We think at the back of the mind there are some concerns that the external influences a thriving port will bring may percolate to the region," the Indian official said.

India, meanwhile, has completed its end of the trilateral arrangement with Iran and Afghanistan. Indian engineers braved militant attacks to build a 200km-long road from Nimroz province in Afghanistan to the Chabahar port, offering landlocked Afghanistan an alternative supply route and reducing its dependence on trucking goods through Pakistan.

Indian officials say they're willing to put in more money into Chabahar to get it going.

"We are ready to go the extra mile to get this going because this is in everyone's interest, especially Afghanistan whose only access at the moment is Karachi and which is subject to the vicissitudes of Afghan-Pakistan relations," the Indian government official said.

GWADAR

A key factor driving India to promote the port in Iran, despite pressure from the United States, is the growing anxiety over the all-weather Gwadar port that the Chinese have built on Pakistan's Baluchistan coast.

Beijing financed more than 80 percent of the initial development cost of $248 million for the port on the Arabian Sea, as part of a plan to open up an energy and trade corridor from the Gulf, across Pakistan to western China.

So in theory China needn't ship all its oil supplies from the Gulf through the Indian Ocean and then up to Shanghai. Instead the oil tankers would drop off at Gwadar, and from there the supplies would be trucked through Pakistan and into China through the Karakoram Highway that China is trying to expand.

It also gives China access to the Indian Ocean where India has long been the main player, after the United States.

More worryingly for New Delhi, the strategic location of Gwadar, 180 km from the mouth of the Straits of Hormuz, offers Pakistan the chance "to take control over the world energy jugular and interdiction of Indian tankers," according to former Indian navy admiral Sureesh Mehta.

"Gwadar has the potential to move much faster than Chabahar because the Chinese are involved. It will depend on how fast they can double the capacity of the Karakoram Highway," the Indian government official said, pointing to the pace with which China completed a port on Sri Lanka's southern coast last year which has added to India's fear of encirclement.

With the Chinese completing the first phase of development in 2007, Gwadar port became operational shortly afterwards. But its progress, although faster than Chabahar, has been affected by worsening security in Baluchistan, a dispute with the port operator PSA of Singapore and the slow pace of road links.

The port handled about $700 million in cargo in 2009, less than half of its cargo capacity. Under the agreement, the Baluchistan government was to develop a free-zone for warehouses and export processing zone and establish road and rail links.

"Pakistan has not really worked on the infrastructure. It was built with a view to connecting the region. It is going to take off when the Afghan situation calms down - then countries will benefit from it with greater access," said Sakib Sherani, a former advisor to Pakistan's finance ministry.

"There are a few commercial ships that come here, but it has not been fully developed yet. I think they planned a second phase to deepen the port to make way for larger ships," he said.

A growing Baluch insurgency has added to the port's problems with several Chinese engineers attacked and kidnapped. Baluch nationalists see the port as another exploitation of the province's rich mineral resources by Pakistan's powerful Punjabi elite without any local benefit.

The provincial government of Baluchistan, struggling to contain the insurgency, has meanwhile approached the Supreme Court seeking the cancellation of the contract with Singapore state-owned PSA International Ltd to run the port on the grounds that it is a "one-sided" deal.

The Singapore company which was given management and operational control of the port in 2007 had neither brought in trade nor expanded the port, the local government said. PSA declined comment.

Local media say Pakistani officials are in favour of the Chinese running the port in addition to helping expand it, which will only further feed Indian anxieties.

"India will be watchful for any militarisation of Gwadar, though for now there are no signs of that," Metcalf said.

India, China's rivalry and a tale of two ports
 
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What rivalry?
There is no comparison in any aspect between indian and China.

Inidan news intellectuals shall know Gawadar is in Pakistan not in China and so is Baluchistan.
 
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What rivalry?
There is no comparison in any aspect between indian and China.

Inidan news intellectuals shall know Gawadar is in Pakistan not in China and so is Baluchistan.

You idiot how about you actually read the article next time?
The port of Chabahar in the southwest corner of Iran, which India is hoping will win it access to Central Asia and Afghanistan, is barely 72km (44 mile) from Pakistan's deep-water Gwadar port which China has built to secure its energy supplies.

It seems Pakistan is now only a small, angry, insecure child who sits idly by whilst the big powers play the big game!

+ I didn't realise Indo-Iranian ties were good enough for them to allow India to build a port in their country. I mean didn't India vote for sanctions against Iran?
 
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An Iranian mmber here in this forum posted once that Indians think Chabahar Port is theirs but Chabahar Port belongs to Iran and only Iran.

Listen Indians, we Pakistanis have no rivalry with the Iranians. This country, Iran, was the first country to recognize Pakistan in 1947, and nor do we have any disputes with Iran. The border that separates the Iranian Sistan-Baluchestan Province from the Pakistani Balochistan Province is an internationally recognized International Border and recognized as an International Border by both Pakistan and Iran.


As for the Ports, it takes time to develop the Ports, Roads, infrastructure, the entire city. These areas are the most backward areas of both Iran and Pakistan. Sistan-Baluchestan Province is the least developed area in Iran and Balochistan Province is the least developed area in Pakistan. Also there is many problems in these both areas.



The Gwadar Port and the Chabahar Port will take atleast 20 years to reach their full potentials. By that time, China will already be superpower :china: :pakistan:
 
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An Iranian mmber here in this forum posted once that Indians think Chabahar Port is theirs but Chabahar Port belongs to Iran and only Iran.

Listen Indians, we Pakistanis have no rivalry with the Iranians. This country, Iran, was the first country to recognize Pakistan in 1947, and nor do we have any disputes with Iran. The border that separates the Iranian Sistan-Baluchestan Province from the Pakistani Balochistan Province is an internationally recognized International Border and recognized as an International Border by both Pakistan and Iran.


As for the Ports, it takes time to develop the Ports, Roads, infrastructure, the entire city. These areas are the most backward areas of both Iran and Pakistan. Sistan-Baluchestan Province is the least developed area in Iran and Balochistan Province is the least developed area in Pakistan. Also there is many problems in these both areas.



The Gwadar Port and the Chabahar Port will take atleast 20 years to reach their full potentials. By that time, China will already be superpower :china: :pakistan:

See this is one thing I never understand about you Pakistanis- why do you ride of others (esp China's) success and achievements? Do you think they are doing for it you or their own purposes? Right now you suit them, there is no "deep understanding" between you two, it is purely an arrangemnt that suits both for their respective aims- China gains a partner to use as a proxy against their regional rivals India, and Pakistan gets to relive they are a important player and have a use in the world stage.

It's like you have given up on your own achievements and aims so have decided to ride off someone elses. Let me tell you if it wasn't in China's own personal interests they wouldn't give you the time of the day, as it is they are getting sick of your retoric and funding of terror outfits who have spilled into their country.

It just makes me laugh when I see Pakistanis bragging about a Chinease achievement when at the same time their country is in flames.
 
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^ Why are you using two british flags, indian bharati troll.

We Pakistanis will do everything to protect our own interests, it'll be not good for bharatis in the end I can assure you and you know that, thats why you bharatis get so angry when Pakistan cooperates with China.

Pakistan and China share the same strategic interests, especially in South Asia. If you havent figured it out, India is still occupying Kashmir and its also occuping Arunchal Pradesh. China is helping Pakistan in every field, not only in this Port. What do you want us Pakistanis to be pro-india and anti-china? Give me a break!

Burn indians!!! burn!!!

1950 - Pakistan becomes third non-communist country, and first Muslim one, to recognize China.

1951 - Beijing and at the time Karachi established diplomatic relations between themselves in the month of May.

1970 - Pakistan helps US make contacts with China that result in visit to China by then US National Security Adviser Henry Kissinger in 1971.

1978 - Karakoram Highway linking mountainous Northern Pakistan with Western China officially opens.

1980s - China and US supply help through Pakistan to Afghan guerrillas fighting Soviet occupational forces.

1986 - China and Pakistan reach comprehensive nuclear Co-operation Agreement.

1996 - Chinese President Jiang Zemin pays state visit to Pakistan.

1999 - A 300-megawatt nuclear power plant, built with Chinese help in Punjab province, is completed. China is helping to build a second 300-megawatt nuclear plant due to be finished by 2010.

2001 - A joint-ventured Chinese-Pakistani tank, the MBT-2000 (Al-Khalid) MBT, comes into full production.

2002 - Chinese Vice Premier Wu Bangguo attends ground-breaking ceremony for Pakistan's Gwadar deep-sea port. China provides $198 million for $248 million joint project.

2003 - Pakistan and China signed a $110 million contract for the construction of a housing project on Multan Road in Lahore[27]

2007 - Sino- became Pakistan's biggest arms supplier with no strings attached, a true "strategic partnership".

2007 - Sino-Pakistani joint-ventured multirole fighter aircraft - JF-17 Thunder (FC-1 Fierce Dragon) is formally rolled out. 2008, Pakistan starts mass production of the aircraft.

2008 - China warns US of war against Pakistan, during which former president, Pervez Musharraf, visits China, Musharraf raised issues of US attacks inside Pakistan.
Pakistan's foreign office (the first foreign issue to speak of Tibet) speaks for more than three times per month on the Tibet issue, calling for the world to stop opposing China and the Olympic Games.
Pakistan welcomes China's Olympic Torch warmly, and did not protest against Tibet when the torch arrived. In fact, when the torch passed through the rural hinterland of the capital Islamabad, local villagers showered rose petals upon the procession. As a result, China thanked Pakistan for its continuous support.

2008 During the 2008 Sichuan Earthquake, Pakistan almost emptied its national storage of tents to support China.

2008 China and Pakistan sign an FTA (free trade agreement). It is the first such agreement signed by the two countries. As a direct result China has opened new industries in Pakistan and Pakistan has been given free trade zones in China.

2008 China vows to help Pakistan in civil nuclear technology by building and helping in the Khusab Nuclear Programme providing technology to Pakistan for better maintenance of civil nuclear plants.

2008 Pakistan and China to build first ever train route through the Karakoram Highway, ultimately linking China's rail route-net to Gwadar Port.

2008 The F-22P frigate, comes into service with the Pakistani Navy. The first frigate was inducted in Pakistani Navy in July 2009 and last one is expected to be in 2013.[28]

2009 Pakistani intelligence agencies helped the Chinese government of catching several suspected Uyghur terrorists seeking haven in Pakistan and planning to launch illegal operations.

2009 Growing military ties between China and Pakistan are a serious concern to India, Defense Minister A.K. Antony said on Friday, in the latest display of a prickly rivalry between New Delhi and its neighbors. India worries about China's rising influence in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, a neighborhood New Delhi has traditionally considered as its sphere of influence.[29]

2010 Pakistan and China have a joint military drill for anti terrorism. China donates $260 million (USD) to flood hit Pakistan and further sends 4 military rescue helicopters to Pakistan to assist in rescue operations, it was the first time China has ever sent such rescue operations overseas. Sino-Pak relations proved to be "All-Weathered-Friends".

2010 On 6th July, 2010, President Asif Ali Zardari arrived in China on a five days official visit. Besides attending Shinghai Expo, the largest business festival ever, he also met Chinese President and strengthened bilateral ties to promote more trade between the two states.

2010 Wen Jiabao visited Pakistan. More than 30 billion US dollars of deals were signed. Pakistan China friendship center was inaugurated in Islamabad by Prime Minister of China Wen Jiabao.[30]

People's Republic of China
 
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You idiot how about you actually read the article next time?


It seems Pakistan is now only a small, angry, insecure child who sits idly by whilst the big powers play the big game!

+ I didn't realise Indo-Iranian ties were good enough for them to allow India to build a port in their country. I mean didn't India vote for sanctions against Iran?

How is Bharat a big player, Bharat is a failed state with 40% of the landmass under the control of the Naxals, the seven sisters of Assam almost independent with no central control, Kashmir in open revolt and 75% of the population of Bharat is living under $2 per day—50% of its survives on less than $1.25 per day. Bharat’s internal poverty line is Rs. 15 per day. Bharat is the hungriest nation in South Asia—according to the hunger Index. Slumdog Bharat was on display in all its horrid glory in front of the world during the CWG.

Aid to Bharat: Bharat is one of the largest recipients of aid in the world today and has always been the biggest loser in the world. Bharat is the largest recipient of aid from the UK (500 million Pound Sterling per annum). Japan is Bharat’s biggest donor. Bharat is one of the largest debtor nations on the planet with debt totally $250 Billion to $3 Trillion (public and private debt). Bharat has had a growth rate of 3%–derisively called the Hindu growth rate for fifty of the past sixty years—the last decade being an anomaly (rising tide lifts all boats). Nearly 40 percent of Indian homes, some 400 million people, do not have reliable electricity. Bharat has already fallen behind on its Power-for-All Plan, which would add 78,000 MW by 2012.

Bharat cannot bypass Afghanistan, Taliban control all the roads and they will blow up any bharati truck carrying goods
 
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How is Bharat a big player, Bharat is a failed state with 40% of the landmass under the control of the Naxals, the seven sisters of Assam almost independent with no central control, Kashmir in open revolt and 75% of the population of Bharat is living under $2 per day—50% of its survives on less than $1.25 per day. Bharat’s internal poverty line is Rs. 15 per day. Bharat is the hungriest nation in South Asia—according to the hunger Index. Slumdog Bharat was on display in all its horrid glory in front of the world during the CWG.

Aid to India: India is one of the largest recipients of aid in the world today and has always been the biggest loser in the world. Bharat is the largest recipient of aid from the UK (500 million Pound Sterling per annum). Japan is Bharat’s biggest donor. Bharat is one of the largest debtor nations on the planet with debt totally $250 Billion to $3 Trillion (public and private debt). Bharat has had a growth rate of 3%–derisively called the Hindu growth rate for fifty of the past sixty years—the last decade being an anomaly (rising tide lifts all boats). Nearly 40 percent of Indian homes, some 400 million people, do not have reliable electricity. India has already fallen behind on its Power-for-All Plan, which would add 78,000 MW by 2012.

Bharat cannot bypass Afghanistan, Taliban control all the roads and they will blow up any bharati truck carrying goods

So much happening in Bharat, still Pakistan manages to land itself in top ten failed states of the world..where as Bharat sits at 79 ..if what you wrote is the reality of Bharat..wonder what kind $hit goes on in your country??
 
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How is Bharat a big player, Bharat is a failed state with 40% of the landmass under the control of the Naxals, the seven sisters of Assam almost independent with no central control, Kashmir in open revolt and 75% of the population of Bharat is living under $2 per day—50% of its survives on less than $1.25 per day. Bharat’s internal poverty line is Rs. 15 per day. Bharat is the hungriest nation in South Asia—according to the hunger Index. Slumdog Bharat was on display in all its horrid glory in front of the world during the CWG.

Aid to Bharat: Bharat is one of the largest recipients of aid in the world today and has always been the biggest loser in the world. Bharat is the largest recipient of aid from the UK (500 million Pound Sterling per annum). Japan is Bharat’s biggest donor. Bharat is one of the largest debtor nations on the planet with debt totally $250 Billion to $3 Trillion (public and private debt). Bharat has had a growth rate of 3%–derisively called the Hindu growth rate for fifty of the past sixty years—the last decade being an anomaly (rising tide lifts all boats). Nearly 40 percent of Indian homes, some 400 million people, do not have reliable electricity. Bharat has already fallen behind on its Power-for-All Plan, which would add 78,000 MW by 2012.

Bharat cannot bypass Afghanistan, Taliban control all the roads and they will blow up any bharati truck carrying goods

You stupid fool!
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan 'is a top failed state'
http://www.articlesbase.com/journalism-articles/top-10-failed-states-1048575.html
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/pakistan-in-worlds-top-10-failed-states-th/3679/


How can you possibly pass judgement, with the conditions surrounding India, it is a bloody miracle the success she has achieved:
Top 10 failed states in the world, worrisome for India
 
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An Iranian mmber here in this forum posted once that Indians think Chabahar Port is theirs but Chabahar Port belongs to Iran and only Iran.
And hearing this you became very happy. Indian is asking to build this port just like China is building Gwadar so that India could use it. I doesnot mean its Indian port and Iranians has no right on that. It will be Iranian port but India will be able to use use it freely for its purpose also just like China can use Gwadar but that does not mean Gwadar is a Chinese port.
 
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I had to read this line multiple times to confirm that you indeed are bragging about China becoming the super power. Why are you so sure Pakistan can never become one?

We Pakistanis, unlike Indians, are more realistic. India has more poor people than all of Africa but still the people of India are dreaming of being a superpower.
BBC News - 'More poor' in India than Africa



Besides, Pakistan was never interested in being a superpower, a regional power yes but not a superpower it goes against our Islamic principles, but we support our friendly neighbors with their ambitions that benefits Pakistan as well.
 
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We Pakistanis, unlike Indians are more realistic. India has more poor people than all of Africa but still dreaming of being a superpower.
BBC News - 'More poor' in India than Africa


Besides, Pakistan never was interested in being a superpower, a regional power yes but not a superpower it goes against our Islamic principles, but we support our friendly countries in their ambitions that benefits Pakistan as well.

I know that. you have it in your signature right? Like that fact is more important than saying something good about your country.

:lol: So islam encourages you becoming a regional power? As if you guys do everything according to islam..

India is an ambitious nation and we make decisions for ourselves , for our interest , unlike you guys who kisses up to and get indirectly ruled by all your allies.
 
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I have always seen a Pakistani flag after this line....:)
I mean Chinese flag is fine but what is Pakistani Flag doing next to it ??/Don't tell me Pakistan is becoming just like Tibet but voluntarily.

Why not? We Pakistanis will do everything we can to keep bharatis up at night :pakistan: :china: :pakistan: :china:
 
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