India Behind Karachi Attacks

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A ceasefire before (mediated by India) doesn't mean we support them.

Mediating a ceasefire with arguably the worlds deadliest terrorist organization, which was created and supported by India initially? Isn't that analogous to the 'peace deals with the Taliban' that many Indians love to criticize and point to as evidence of the PA's 'complicity with the Taliban'?

 

[FreekiN]

"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah." 008.030 The Holy Quran

That is SOOOO going in my signature!

Anyways, is this supposed to be 'revenge' for 26/11? Because some of us have been expecting it.

 

[Kompromat]

"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah." 008.030 The Holy Quran

That is SOOOO going in my signature!

Anyways, is this supposed to be 'revenge' for 26/11? Because some of us have been expecting it.

what revenge?

That was their own drama..

 

[gogbot]

I dont what pointing all the fingers at India is going to achieve.

well, I know that's not going to solve anything. The real people responsible go free.

But you want to attack India is that it. Take out the terror camps and such.
It will go nuclear ending the story of the sub continent right there.

well what.

whats the entire point.
what is Pakistan going to achieve by convincing everyone that the real danger is out there, while Frankenstein roams free inside

 

[Spitfighter]

Unlike India, if Pakistan wanted attention, it would have made a song and dance, it's evident that Bollywood has turned the Indian Public into nothing more than Drama Queens. India's trump card, Ajmal Kasab has done more somersaults than a trapeze artist, how can anyone even trust India on it's moral values.

Funny you say that, because it is Pakistan that the world considers as the 'epicenter of terrorism' not India. Lets see you deny it.

No one believes a word coming out Islamabad, except maybe Pakistanis. The intl' community has joined India in pressing Pakistan to take action against their so called 'non state actors', not vice versa, so what are you talking about?

You live in the UK, you read the news, you don't need me to point this out to you. Never mind how or why anyone trusts India, the fact is that they do.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Really?

.................

yes

-Khalistan?

so was nixon..

mukhti bahini?

-Kashmir?

disputed territory, and should be treated as such

Taliban/strategic depth?

after red army withdrew, country errupted in civil war...they were the only ones who at the time were bringing order, ending drugs trade and plague of corruption and war-lordism. Besides, we had falling out with them in late 1990s, over the foreign extremists that were still residing there and trying to make it a global extremist agenda. Taleban were even having indirect ties with U.S.

So quit approaching us with your cliche lines

ring any bells yet?

cowbells

Garbage. They were all Pakistanis, from Pakistan. Your own government admitted as much.

re-read my previous post

Oh yeah? How are those submarines from Germany coming along?

depends on if hindustan goes for the same ones we are eyeing (the U214s)


on navy topic, you indian should be more worried about getting your 2nd hand soviet carrier. You've been slapped with massive delays, cost-overruns and what not for a carrier that wont have a very long service life

The most prominent point of contention has concerned the production delays and cost overruns associated with Russian efforts to renovate the Admiral Gorshkov. This former Soviet aircraft carrier, built in 1978, had been berthed at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years while the Russian government determined what to do with a vessel it lacked funds to modernize on its own. Under the terms of a 2004 contract, the Indian Navy bought the carrier for $1.5 billion -- technically receiving the hull almost for free (priced as scrap metal) on condition that India pay for the ship's modernization at Sevmash.

Russian and Indian representatives have subsequently engaged in contentious negotiations regarding the time and money needed to refit and modernize the 44,570-ton carrier. The Sevmash shipyard proved unable to meet the terms of the original contract, which stipulated delivery in 2008 at a cost of $750 million. Most analysts now consider the original terms unrealistic in light of the difficulty of the task and the underfinanced state of the Russian shipbuilding industry, which had been starved for funds during the Yeltsin and early Putin period.

Current estimates predict that completing the ship's upgrades could exceed $1 billion. The aircraft carrier's reconstruction is now supposed to be completed by mid-2010. The Russian Navy will then conduct 18 months of extensive sea trials of the newly renamed Vikramaditya. As part of the contract, the Russian MiG aerospace firm is providing 12 single-seat MiG-29K and four two-seat MiG-29KUB fighters for use on the ship. Russia will also provide Ka-27 Helix-A and Ka-31 Helix-B anti-submarine helicopters for use on the carrier. The ship could also include Russian-Indian Bramos missiles as well as other Russian, Indian, or third-party weapons systems.

(http://www.idrw.org/2008/05/19/past_problems_threaten_future_russianindian_arms_deals.html)

India never fails to make a HUGE fuss every time someone sells something to Pakistan, and now people have a reason to listen.

india is the one going for 126 fighter aircrafts, conducting missile tests, and your Army chief is even making jingoistic comments about fighting China & Pakistan concurrently

and you are having security breaches at your nuclear facilities, and having naxalites and other rebel movements wreaking havoc and engaging in sabatoge.

Pakistan is not a rogue or irresponsible country. And when it comes to defending ourselves, we will do whatever we deem fit. It is not us who are making provocative moves.

Afghanistan is not Pakistan's private property. We have as many consulates as Pakistan does and in the same cities as you do. Furthermore we don't need Pakistan's approval for our consulates. Every country on earth has rejected Pakistan's claims about India supporting terrorism in Pakistan.

well, we dont need to whine to the world. We can leave this 'honour' for you. Most important is that we keep a good eye out for the enemy and know their move before they even do something. It is a hostile neighbourhood out there.


by the way,

ISI Chief confronts CIA counterpart with evidence | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

you think India is the one being 'used'?

yes.

They've invested billions and the US is a superpower. They already bomb places all over FATA and Waziristan, they will expand and impose the war, its not like they haven't done it before. This is the reality of American foreign policy.

Waziristan Agencies are in FATA, numb nuts. It is Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Army that is out there, sweeping the place --eliminating or arresting militants. In fact, if you look at things over the past few months you can see S Waziristan is becoming largely free of militants for the most part. Some of them fled to other agencies, and its a matter of keeping the heat on them till they surrender. Their morale is running low, and its freezing winter at the moment.


i dont need indian of all people to try and lecture me on any foreign policy... thanks!

India is helping to reconstruct a war torn nation, if you think Pakistan can muscle its way around for much longer, you're in for a surprise.

lets see what happens




thanks, good day...

 

[naved_kam]

^^^^^^
How did the discussion end up reaching here?? I thought that this was about the Ahmad Qureshi CSI....

 

[ek_indian]

^^^^^^
How did the discussion end up reaching here?? I thought that this was about the Ahmad Qureshi CSI....

You are right. Even I was wondering about this.

First, these youtube videos can not be presented as a proof. No matter how much we cry loud, it is just for promoting conspiracy thoeries. There is not a single evidence against GoI yet so all this things make no sense.

Second the big question, are we seriously discussing Ahmad Qureshi here?

 

[naved_kam]

^^^^^^

Well bro, since the content of his diatribe is for sure to be considered at best a sensational, evidence-less, conspiratorial, monotonal twist to a matter of public tragedy, why credit the process by discussing it.......

Let us treat it as what it is, Ahmad Qureshi, Crime Scene Investigator......

 

[Spitfighter]

.................
so was nixon..

We're talking about Pakistan here, I don't care about Nixon. Pakistan supported Sikh separatists.

disputed territory, and should be treated as such

Exactly, but if Pakistan chooses war over diplomacy, India will respond in kind, disputed or not.

mukhti bahini?

Ah yes, the mukti bhani

after red army withdrew, country errupted in civil war...they were the only ones who at the time were bringing order, ending drugs trade and plague of corruption and war-lordism. Besides, we had falling out with them in late 1990s, over the foreign extremists that were still residing there and trying to make it a global extremist agenda. Taleban were even having indirect ties with U.S.

So quit approaching us with your cliche lines

Only you forgot to mention how many of them ended up in Kashmir.

cowbells

Barn? with internet access? that's cool.

re-read my previous post

What's to re-read, the GoP's reaction is there for all to see on the internet.

I don't understand why Pakistanis deny such things, everyone agrees on the truth, yet we have people claiming that it was an 'inside job' and even the GoP initially pretended like its never heard about India-specific terrorist outfits on its soil before. It just makes the ordinary Indian think that Pakistanis are duplicitous and support the attack.

depends on if hindustan goes for the same ones we are eyeing (the U214s)

India will create as many hurdles as possible. This is for certain.

on navy topic, you indian should be more worried about getting your 2nd hand soviet carrier. You've been slapped with massive delays, cost-overruns

Money we've already handled, but precious time was lost, this is true. It will nonetheless extend the navy's reach like never before. Don't worry about the IN. They'll handle their business.

and what not for a carrier that wont have a very long service life

Any idea how old our existing carrier is? we'll make it last. We're desis dude, we even wrap the remote control in plastic.

india is the one going for 126 fighter aircrafts, conducting missile tests, and your Army chief is even making jingoistic comments about fighting China & Pakistan concurrently

Funny how no one complains yes?

and you are having security breaches at your nuclear facilities, and having naxalites and other rebel movements wreaking havoc and engaging in sabatoge.

Naxals? they're a menace but in the end they're angry villagers/tribals with homemade weapons, they didn't kill a 100 people in one bombing, they're nothing like the TTP.

Pakistan is not a rogue or irresponsible country. And when it comes to defending ourselves, we will do whatever we deem fit. It is not us who are making provocative moves.

We have different perspectives on this issue, lets leave it for another time though.

well, we dont need to whine to the world. We can leave this 'honour' for you.

No one cares to listen anyway, to be quite honest. Every country on the planet has rubbished Pakistan's claims of India supporting terrorism in the country.

by the way,

ISI Chief confronts CIA counterpart with evidence | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

Kuch hua? Did anyone utter a word against India? Does any country support Pakistan's claim?

thanks, good day...

To you to sir.

PS: India being used?!?

Nuclear deal < 'frontline ally' ??

 

[Dawkins]

1. Then why Let and Jed are banned only on request of India.
2. then why India block pak water and UN didn't say anything.
4. Why Indian army general do whatever he want and world is keeping quite.
5. Why quraesi and other Pak leader keep requesting world that India is meddling in baloch but not one care.

u didnt know that ? The US & Israel have shut everyone's mouth and are conspiring along with India to destroy Pakistan

 

[Dawkins]

"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah." 008.030 The Holy Quran

That is SOOOO going in my signature!

Anyways, is this supposed to be 'revenge' for 26/11? Because some of us have been expecting it.

yeah sure, play the victim all the time, after all US & Zionists along with the hindooz are after Pakistan for holding the flag of Islam

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Funny you say that, because it is Pakistan that the world considers as the 'epicenter of terrorism' not India. Lets see you deny it.

No one believes a word coming out Islamabad, except maybe Pakistanis. The intl' community has joined India in pressing Pakistan to take action against their so called 'non state actors', not vice versa, so what are you talking about?

You live in the UK, you read the news, you don't need me to point this out to you. Never mind how or why anyone trusts India, the fact is that they do.

What pressure has India been able to apply on Pakistan through the international community?

India wanted Kangaroo courts to try and convict Hafiz Saeed without evidence, that didn't happen.

India wanted Kangaroo courts to convict Shah, Lakhvi and the other accused masterminds about whom it has provided some evidence, but Pakistan stuck to its guns and allowed its judicial system to proceed at its own pace.

India wanted (as AZ pointed out earlier) for the world to stop arming Pakistan (providing drugs to an addict or something) and the US to stop giving military aid to Pakistan, that didn't happen either, and in fact military aid from the US appears to be increasing. The SAAB Erieye systems are now starting to be delivered, F-16 Block 52's starting to be delivered, and the US might even fund more advanced versions of the Cobra gunship.

So pray tell, what exactly has India accomplished?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I dont what pointing all the fingers at India is going to achieve.

well, I know that's not going to solve anything. The real people responsible go free.

What purpose is the finger pointing at Pakistan by India going to serve?

Pot calling the kettle black ...

 

[Nemesis]

To argue in favor of the validity of a position on the basis of numbers is a logical fallacy - argumentum ad numerum.

And to deflect criticism by finger pointing at other nations shows the hollowness of your own position. If one were to agree with what you say, it would in no way justify the conspiracy theories propagated by some sections of the Pakistani media. In fact, one could argue that such a situation ends up hurting Pakistani society more.

The only test of the validity of an argument can be evidence - and on that count we have seen nothing from either the US or India implicating Pakistani institutions or the GoP.

Evidence about non state actors operating from Pakistan has been given. The GOP has agreed it has some validity. No where has the US or India said that the Government of Pakistan is directly responsible for the Mumbai attacks. Of course the GOP does share some culpability as it did not do enough to reign on these militants before.

Despite Pakistani accusations, no evidence has been shared with the rest of the world. The only thing we get is accusations and this -

Pakistan Prime Minister Yosuf Raza Gilani has once again said that Islamabad has evidence to prove India’s involvement in terror activities in the country, particularly in Balochistan, and that it would taken up at an’appropriate forum and time’.

and this -

Rejecting Interior Minister Rehman Malik’s claims about having ‘concrete evidence’ regarding India’s involvement in terror activities inside the country, Pakistan Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi has said that evidence against New Delhi is not enough.

Talking to reporters in Islamabad, Qureshi said that while involvement of foreign hands can not be ruled out, more evidence is needed to ‘plausibly argue’ that India is involved in fanning insurgency inside Pakistan.

“The possibility that there are elements who want to destabilise the country cannot be ruled out. But information received by us in this regard, is insufficient. We need more information and material to plausibly argue our case,” 'The Daily Times' quoted Qureshi, as saying.

So again, AR argues that 'uneducated, untrained and unworldly journalists' are to blame in Pakistan, what is the excuse for the Indian and US media and leadership?

Once again, India has provided proof. Pakistan has not.

Denial? Scapegoating? Excuses to explain away their own failures and an attempt to hide their own support for terrorism in Pakistan perhaps?

If you would replace Pakistan with India, i think you would have an accurate assessment of the Pakistani media and government with regards to these allegations.