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India begins trials of new upgraded Arjun Mark 1A

What you mean better than IOK where your seniors are saying its lost and afghanistan where u are begging the americans to stay because you know we are going to kill u there


Again a lot of If's, But's, Will, Going to :blah::blah::blah:

Talk when something substantial happen on ground, just like how we are able to pull out our strategic objectives without much fanfare. 1947 (J&K), 1971 (East Pakistan) , 1984 (Siachen) , 1975 (Sikkim) etc to name a few. All what Pakistan had been doing all these years since 1947 is trying big time nothing else. Show me one single accomplishment w.r.t territories that Pakistan had achieved since independence. Well still keep trying and all the very best. :enjoy:

You know what talk is cheap. Actions are what that really matter. :lol::lol::lol:
 
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I am pretty confused at the difference between MARK1A and Mark2.

The traditional Mark 2 is under production by both Reliance and OFB. It's went back into trials as the user want further weight reduction, this resulted in new materials being used.

Even I don't understand from where mk1A comes... I think that they are incorporating/testing new technologies in Arjun MK1... therefore, terming it as 1A...
 
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Again a lot of If's, But's, Will, Going to :blah::blah::blah:

Talk when something substantial happen on ground, just like how we are able to pull out our strategic objectives without much fanfare. 1947 (J&K), 1971 (East Pakistan) , 1984 (Siachen) , 1975 (Sikkim) etc to name a few. All what Pakistan had been doing all these years since 1947 is trying big time nothing else. Show me one single accomplishment w.r.t territories that Pakistan had achieved since independence. Well still keep trying and all the very best. :enjoy:

You know what talk is cheap. Actions are what that really matter. :lol::lol::lol:
1947...your objective wad to lose all of pskistan and eadt pakistan

1965...you forgot to mention.....how was the tea?
1971....bangladesh free after a civil war that like cowards you joined in at the end
Saichen....yes we were asleep and now you are bogged down....hundreds of millions spent and for what?

So tom tom or gungadin wanna be tom. How do u plan to lose a whole country and still talk it up as an objective .
 
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1947...your objective wad to lose all of pskistan and eadt pakistan

1965...you forgot to mention.....how was the tea?
1971....bangladesh free after a civil war that like cowards you joined in at the end
Saichen....yes we were asleep and now you are bogged down....hundreds of millions spent and for what?

So tom tom or gungadin wanna be tom. How do u plan to lose a whole country and still talk it up as an objective .

Well cumulatively we have added more territory than what you could after our independence. Now please don't talk about your senseless wars like 1965 and 1999 which achieved you nothing rather than the international community point fingers on your nation. LOL :lol::lol::lol:

Now you guys can keep on speculating as usual. That's the best you can do. :p::p::p:
 
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Well cumulatively we have added more territory than what you could after our independence. Now please don't talk about your senseless wars like 1965 and 1999 which achieved you nothing rather than the international community point fingers on your nation. LOL :lol::lol::lol:

Now you guys can keep on speculating as usual. That's the best you can do. :p::p::p:
Really have you added more territory...

GB with pakistan. Azad kashmir taken...thats why you are still bitching about CPEC. What dumb school did you go to gungadin?
1965 was senseless because you got your as5 kicked. Same with 1999 but as always empty vessel (indians) make a lot of noise. As musharaf said reality on the ground is differnet. You even had officer getting gallantry awards for contacts that never happened. I guess they were high on leopard pee.

So stop talking shyte
 
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Even I don't understand from where mk1A comes... I think that they are incorporating/testing new technologies in Arjun MK1... therefore, terming it as 1A...

Tejas mark1a also come out of no where as well. So, this could be a new model to enter production till Mark 2 is ready.
 
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I'm sorry, but what exactly has pakistan reaped as of yet?
Anyone can do sticker-screwdrivergiri, but pray tell what indigenous capability has the AK brought for HIT?
Can you say that pakistan will now be able to make, hell even attempt a 1500hp engine, or its turbocharger, or its transmission, air filtration systems for the engine, various electro optics, indigenous composite armour, remote weapon station, tank launched atgms, and the like?

Politics and media hullabaloo aside, Arjun is a successful project, it was R&Ded and inducted, that is literally the benchmark for a successful weapon system, it has beaten T-90s on multiple occasions while being handicapped.


Try reading my post with eyes fully open and a mind that is not too high on defending your delusion at all cost.

Pakistan has reaped what it intended.
Have we been claiming or trying to manufacture those subsystems? Have you seen any of those projects being worked on?
No. But what we intended we have, and that's the difference.
Any sensible folk would know we don't need to because its not wasting billions on those subsystems while we can source them and work on getting other shit in place. Which we did and we have potent platforms today that we can call our own.

If you could remove the stick from your rear end, you'll see your people entrusted with decision making are always trying to do what they don't need to, and end up wasting billions on either failed or half complete projects.
It provides with learning, by re inventing the wheel over and over, but at what cost?

Compare your R&D with China and tell me why are Chinese successful?

and Arjun is definitely such a T-90 beater that india is replacing all T-90's with it and the world is waiting to get their hands on it?
Get a dose of reality and lay down on the bullshit and you'll do your own self and your country a favor.
It's people like you who are responsible for the projects that fail or end up half cooked.
 
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Try reading my post with eyes fully open and a mind that is not too high on defending your delusion at all cost.

Starting off with an ad-hominem, I can already see where this is going.

Pakistan has reaped what it intended.
Have we been claiming or trying to manufacture those subsystems? Have you seen any of those projects being worked on?
No. But what we intended we have, and that's the difference.

And what has pakistan indended?
You keep indicating to these ambiguous successes, and likewise all anyone can see is you lot pointing to the ether and claiming you have achieved something.

AK is nothing more than the Chinese VT1, what HIT does for AK we have been doing with the OFB manufactured T-90s and more, yet you don't see us calling T-90s an Indian product.
We now make the ECU, APU and even the V92S2 engines of T-90 in India.
Other components of T-90.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/recent-indigenization-of-the-t-90.189461/
All these developments have led to the R&D of segregated indigenous subsystems like the individual underwater breathing apparatus (IUWBA), for T-90s.

So do give specifics of what you lot have actually reaped otherwise it's just hot air.

Also, you rhetorically asking me if I am privy to pakistani projects proves zilch, as the onus is on you to prove what exactly has the pakistani industry reaped(since you claimed pakistan always "reaps something"), not on me to disprove something that doesn't even exist. You are just shifting the burden of proof.
Shifting+the+Burden+of+Proof.png


Any sensible folk would know we don't need to because its not wasting billions on those subsystems while we can source them and work on getting other shit in place. Which we did and we have potent platforms today that we can call our own.

I don't see why you are pretending like indigenous production is not the eventual goal.
You can "source" as much as you like but the fact remains that those are not yours and pakistan gains nothing from importing whereas India gains a boat load from even attempting an indigenous subsystem.

You can call anything to be yours, but it won't really make it your own.
If other countries suddenly stop giving pakistan all the parts necessary for making AK, will pakistan suddenly come out the next day with a 100% indigenous AK?

If you have the gall to say pakistan reaps more than India in its tank project then have the confidence to name the said subsystems you have indigenized, and if by "reap" you hypocritically only mean sticker-screwdriver tech then don't compare Arjun with AK as pakistan has nothing on the level of Arjun, compare AK with T-90 Bhishm as both are more or less foreign products.

If you could remove the stick from your rear end, you'll see your people entrusted with decision making are always trying to do what they don't need to, and end up wasting billions on either failed or half complete projects.
It provides with learning, by re inventing the wheel over and over, but at what cost?

At what cost, you ask.
At the cost of crores and years of R&D for the purpose of self sufficiency(which we always achieve) as compared to being always dependent on a sugar daddy.

You are under the wrong impression here, but what can one expect when one inundates oneself with only a certain type of news.
If you look at similar international programs, the cost of R&D in India is always lower, yes sometimes it takes more time but never does it cost more than most countries out there and we always induct and use the said product to its utmost, always.

So pray tell, what are these so called failed and half completed projects that you know of that we don't?

Compare your R&D with China and tell me why are Chinese successful?

That's easy, more money.

and Arjun is definitely such a T-90 beater that india is replacing all T-90's with it and the world is waiting to get their hands on it?
Get a dose of reality and lay down on the bullshit and you'll do your own self and your country a favor.

It is indeed a T-90 beater, it is but empirically proven now, there are specific records of how Arjun upstaged T-90s and in which categories, there's no denying it.

As for why isn't India replacing T-90s with Arjun.
IA has been using T-90s a 3 man system for way too long and it is a lighter tank, which can be used relatively well in the softer agricultural grounds on both sides of the India-pakistan border.

Arjun otoh is more akin to Western heavy tanks which is why the arjun armoured regiments are concentrated near Rajasthan.

IA does not use Arjun exclusively for the very same reason PA rejected the Abrams in the 80s and only recently chose the lighter Chinese VT-4 instead of the heavier Turkish Altay, and exclusively uses tanks under 50 tonnes.

Why even talk about the world, Arjun isn't really available for exports.

It's people like you who are responsible for the projects that fail or end up half cooked.

Enough with that pretentious concern-trolling already.

India will become self sufficient in tanks and jets just like we became self sufficient in Missiles and Space and that happened only coz we took huge risks, faced sanctions and "wasted billions and failed initially".
Whereas you lot can pretend that you never fail and all your relatively conservative projects(all imported, with no scope of indigenization) "reap benefits" always.

It's people like me who put pressure on our R&D organizations to get it right, but you wouldn't know that considering how pakistan has next to nil capability for indigenization while the fanboys give excuses for pak basically sticker-screwdriving completely foreign weapons and giving them bombastic urdu names.
 
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Starting off with an ad-hominem, I can already see where this is going.



And what has pakistan indended?
You keep indicating to these ambiguous successes, and likewise all anyone can see is you lot pointing to the ether and claiming you have achieved something.

AK is nothing more than the Chinese VT1, what HIT does for AK we have been doing with the OFB manufactured T-90s and more, yet you don't see us calling T-90s an Indian product.
We now make the ECU, APU and even the V92S2 engines of T-90 in India.
Other components of T-90.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/recent-indigenization-of-the-t-90.189461/
All these developments have led to the R&D of segregated indigenous subsystems like the individual underwater breathing apparatus (IUWBA), for T-90s.

So do give specifics of what you lot have actually reaped otherwise it's just hot air.

Also, you rhetorically asking me if I am privy to pakistani projects proves zilch, as the onus is on you to prove what exactly has the pakistani industry reaped(since you claimed pakistan always "reaps something"), not on me to disprove something that doesn't even exist. You are just shifting the burden of proof.
View attachment 529890



I don't see why you are pretending like indigenous production is not the eventual goal.
You can "source" as much as you like but the fact remains that those are not yours and pakistan gains nothing from importing whereas India gains a boat load from even attempting an indigenous subsystem.

You can call anything to be yours, but it won't really make it your own.
If other countries suddenly stop giving pakistan all the parts necessary for making AK, will pakistan suddenly come out the next day with a 100% indigenous AK?

If you have the gall to say pakistan reaps more than India in its tank project then have the confidence to name the said subsystems you have indigenized, and if by "reap" you hypocritically only mean sticker-screwdriver tech then don't compare Arjun with AK as pakistan has nothing on the level of Arjun, compare AK with T-90 Bhishm as both are more or less foreign products.



At what cost, you ask.
At the cost of crores and years of R&D for the purpose of self sufficiency(which we always achieve) as compared to being always dependent on a sugar daddy.

You are under the wrong impression here, but what can one expect when one inundates oneself with only a certain type of news.
If you look at similar international programs, the cost of R&D in India is always lower, yes sometimes it takes more time but never does it cost more than most countries out there and we always induct and use the said product to its utmost, always.

So pray tell, what are these so called failed and half completed projects that you know of that we don't?



That's easy, more money.



It is indeed a T-90 beater, it is but empirically proven now, there are specific records of how Arjun upstaged T-90s and in which categories, there's no denying it.

As for why isn't India replacing T-90s with Arjun.
IA has been using T-90s a 3 man system for way too long and it is a lighter tank, which can be used relatively well in the softer agricultural grounds on both sides of the India-pakistan border.

Arjun otoh is more akin to Western heavy tanks which is why the arjun armoured regiments are concentrated near Rajasthan.

IA does not use Arjun exclusively for the very same reason PA rejected the Abrams in the 80s and only recently chose the lighter Chinese VT-4 instead of the heavier Turkish Altay, and exclusively uses tanks under 50 tonnes.

Why even talk about the world, Arjun isn't really available for exports.



Enough with that pretentious concern-trolling already.

India will become self sufficient in tanks and jets just like we became self sufficient in Missiles and Space and that happened only coz we took huge risks, faced sanctions and "wasted billions and failed initially".
Whereas you lot can pretend that you never fail and all your relatively conservative projects(all imported, with no scope of indigenization) "reap benefits" always.

It's people like me who put pressure on our R&D organizations to get it right, but you wouldn't know that considering how pakistan has next to nil capability for indigenization while the fanboys give excuses for pak basically sticker-screwdriving completely foreign weapons and giving them bombastic urdu names.



So typing your delusional and self imposed narrow perspective into a wall of text, completely based on illogical assumptions, and hardly factual but "opinionated", is supposed to prove you right?
This might earn you rewards on some indian defence forum or page, might post it there because there will be plenty of fellow delusional folk who would buy it and cheer you for it, and get your dopamine flowing to help you with the daily dose of attention you might be needing.

But you haven't improved any bit from what you had already conveyed in your previous more concise post, instead of simply expanding that into a longer one by adding unnecessary text and claims in between, which are only repeating the same sentence in a hundred different ways.

And as you still seem to have an abundance of time on your hand to undertake keyboard warriorship, might still want to refer to the last response of mine which is answer to this expanded version of the same claims you had posted before.
 
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So typing your delusional and self imposed narrow perspective into a wall of text, completely based on illogical assumptions, and hardly factual but "opinionated", is supposed to prove you right?
This might earn you rewards on some indian defence forum or page, might post it there because there will be plenty of fellow delusional folk who would buy it and cheer you for it, and get your dopamine flowing to help you with the daily dose of attention you might be needing.

But you haven't improved any bit from what you had already conveyed in your previous more concise post, instead of simply expanding that into a longer one by adding unnecessary text and claims in between, which are only repeating the same sentence in a hundred different ways.

And as you still seem to have an abundance of time on your hand to undertake keyboard warriorship, might still want to refer to the last response of mine which is answer to this expanded version of the same claims you had posted before.

Again, what the hell dude seriously?
Your riposte is just one long ad hominem, you can't just substitute insults for a coherent response, anyone can see that. You think people are really that stupid or something?

"Hardly factual"????
I literally gave you the proof of some of the components OFB produces for the T-90 whereas you gave zilch to support your claim about AK, instead you skirt around the issue and throw logical fallacies all over the place in order to avoid going into the meat of the issue.

Again, stick to the topic and prove what you have reaped.
What has pakistan gotten out of AK that India hasn't? What subsystems have you indigenized? Details
 
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