India asks Pakistan to hand over 20 "fugitives".

[AliFarooq]

19 more perish in Karachi violence
Updated at: 0912 PST, Tuesday, December 02, 2008
19 more perish in Karachi violence KARACHI: Nineteen more were killed and 25 injured in the spate of violence in the city on Monday.

Several shops, stalls, vehicles and godowns were torched in various parts of the city as violence continued for a third straight day.

According to statement of Sindh Education Department, schools and colleges would remain closed on Tuesday while universities would be opened.

The most tensed part of the city is Orangi Town where incidents of firing and violence continued throughout the day. Heavy contingents of police and Rangers were deployed in the affected areas.

Moreover, the home minister said that he has now given the shoot-on-sight orders in writing.



any link with mumbai???

There is no links to mumbai, becuse our media dsnt make up bulshit, like the indian media.

 

[AliFarooq]

Originally Posted by IceCold View Post
Get these facts straight in your head, first India is no USA, second those captured belonged to AQ and were foreign nationals and a very few number of Pakistanis were there but in case you forgot let me remind you that this was one of the major reasons that resulted in a huge farcry inside pakistan and the reason why the ex government of Musharraf lost elections and that too in a very shameful manner. Do you think that this government of president Zardari which by the way is a collation government can commit the same mistake again and hand over Pakistanis without any proof to India, well think again.

India has been given the option, provide proofs and Pakistan will act upon them inside Pakistan, rest is up to India if it wants to exercise the very generous option made by Pakistan or perhaps remains engaged with what it does best, propaganda.


Be patience lol, it will take them sum time to cum up with some solid proofs. The previous proofs were a job poor;y done and were of no use lol.

 

[AliFarooq]

karachi killing are very much linked with mumbai attacks.India is creating disturbance not only in karachi but also supporting anti pakistan elements in Balouchistan and NWFP.

In Afghan russia war india did play the same role.

Coming to topic of post how dare india ask pakistan to hand over suspect ,they should provide solid evidence ,pakistan can investigate and punish them ,but they dont have any evidence.

Pakistan is not iraq or afghanistan and india is not USA.

I disagree, i doubt any involment of Raw, in the Karachui attacks, it's probably MQM or some terrorist group, like the talliban. I completely there is involment of RAW in balochistan.

 

[third eye]

If anything, you just cemented my opinion about your ignorance. Non state actors were brought into the fray by your master america after the fall of USSR. Go smell some coffee...... if by South Asia, you mean India, its fine with me. I can surely contribute much better provided the interlocutor has some minimum standard of knowledge and doesn't pull out rabbits from his hat.



And you come on the defence forums to discuss defence issues....

' My master" ??

It is Pak that the US pays for " services ' & then goes & shoots msls into Pak territory & uses Pak nationals for target practice. With the " racit " approval of the GOP as mentined by a Pak moderator / admin onthis forum..

My masters indeed.

 

[daredevil]

So it looks like Pakistani based elements are involved in Mumbai attack, thpugh we don't know about the specific evidence.




Decision on Pak action in some time: PM

PTI | December 05, 2008 | 20:21 IST

Making it clear that India wanted the United States to put pressure on Pakistan on Mumbai attacks, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Friday said it was the 'obligation' of the world community to ensure that perpetrators of the 'horrible' crime are brought to justice.

Dr Singh said India will await the 'outcome' of its message to the world before deciding on future course of action with regard to Pakistan.

"I have impressed upon all the world leaders who called me that people of India feel a sense of hurt and anger as never seen before," he told a joint press conference addressed along with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in New Delhi.

"It is the obligation of all concerned to ensure that perpetrators of this horrible crime are brought to book. That is our message to everybody and anybody who have come here," Singh said.

His response came when asked whether India had requested US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, during her visit to New Delhi on Wednesday, to tell Pakistan to arrest Lashkar-e-Tayiba chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed.

Underlining that 'perpetrators of this crime should be brought to book', the prime minister said this message had been conveyed to Rice.

"We will wait for the outcome," Dr Singh said, when asked what options India was considering militarily, politically and economically with regard to Pakistan.

Rice, who met the prime minister besides External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee during her visit to New Delhi, was provided with evidence about involvement of Pakistani terrorists in the Mumbai attacks.

The US has also independently collected evidence, which points to involvement of Pakistan-based terrorists. Making a veiled reference to Pakistan, Dr Singh said India as 'other relevant countries have come to the same conclusion that territory of a neighbouring country has been used for perpetrating this crime (in Mumbai)'.

"We expect the world community to recognise. We expect the international community to wake up and recognise that terror anywhere and everywhere constitutes a threat to world peace and prosperity," the prime minister said.

He said he conveyed the 'sense of anger and outrage' in India over the Mumbai attacks to the Russian President during their talks.

"We both agreed that these attacks represent a threat to all open and pluralistic societies, and require a major intensification of efforts against supporters and perpetrators of terrorism anywhere in the world," Dr Singh said.

Medvedev expressed solidarity with India and said Moscow stood ready to work with New Delhi, using 'all avenues' and extending all possible assistance in the situation.

Dr Singh appreciated Russia's expression of solidarity with India at this moment.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

DD:

Moved your post over here since it fit in better with the topic.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

More official details on what exactly India has communicated to Pakistan with respect to suspects etc. and the official Pakistani response. Apparently there never was a 'list of 20', as reported in the Indian media, nor was there any counter list from Pakistan, as reported in some sections of the Pakistani media.

No ‘action without evidence’ against Masood Azhar​

Syed Irfan Raza
Thursday, 04 Dec, 2008 | 10:58 PM PST |


ISLAMABAD: The government on Thursday confirmed that India has provided Pakistan a list of three persons who are allegedly involved in the Mumbai carnage that claimed 200 lives.

'India has given us three names and demanded stern action against them,' Adviser to the Prime Minister on Interior Rehman Malik said during a press conference.

Asked if the government is taking any action on the list of the 20 accused reportedly provided by India through Pakistan’s Ambassador in Delhi, the adviser said there was on such list of 20 people but three names have been given. They are two Indian nationals, Daud Ibrahim and Tiger Memon, and a Pakistani Masood Azhar.

Mr Malik said Daud Ibrahim and Tiger Memon were not in Pakistan while the government could not take any action against Masood Azhar unless credible evidence is provided by India against him.

Responding to a query about some reports that not the chief of Inter Service Intelligence (ISI) but his representatives would be sent to India on its demand to share investigation of Mumbai terror attacks, the adviser said: 'I have seen the letter sent by India which does not mention any Pakistani official required to visit India for information sharing,' he said.

'They have not asked in writing for Pakistan's ISI Chief to come to India. In this letter, the Indian government has only asked us to cooperate and share information,' the adviser said.

Answering to a question about a possible surgical attack by India to hit Lashkar-i-Taiba, the outfit which has already been banned in Pakistan, the adviser said there was no possibility of such attacks. 'We do not expect any such action from India as the two countries are trying their level best to normalise relations,' he said.

On the other hand the Indian government has accused Pakistan’s ISI for its involvement in the Mumbai carnage and claimed that the terrorists who had put India’s commercial hub on rampage in a three-day terror game were from Pakistan.

However, the Pakistani leadership has rejected India’s claim and said Pakistan has no direct and indirect link with the incident — rather non-state actors could have involved in the attacks.

Rehman Malik also refuted that Pakistan had handed over a similar list to India for extradition of some persons. 'I have no knowledge of any list handed over by Pakistan to India for extradition,' he added.

He strongly condemned the Mumbai attacks, terming it a conspiracy by terrorists to bring both the nations to a war-like situation.

'I appreciate the leadership of the two counties who have foiled the nefarious designs of terrorists.'

The Advisor assured full support to India in investigating the incident and said the culprits must be brought to justice whosoever they are.

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | No action without evidence against Masood Azhar

 

[daredevil]

This is from 'The Hindu', a much respectful publication house. So I believe in what they say, though I would wait for the specific evidence to come out.


India has ‘proof of ISI involvement’

Siddharth Varadarajan

But it is also wary of walking into trap of escalating hostility

New Delhi: India has proof of the involvement of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency in last week’s terrorist attacks in Mumbai but will not level a public accusation because the ensuing tension in bilateral relations would play into the hands of those responsible for the incidents, authoritative sources claimed here on Thursday.

Asked for the sort of proof linking the ISI to the attacks, the sources said investigators had “the names of the handlers and trainers, the locations where the training was held, and some of their communication through Voice over Internet Protocol have addresses that have been used by known ISI people before.”

The sources also clarified that contrary to media reports in India and Pakistan, the demarche which was handed over to the Pakistani side earlier this week did not contain the list of 20 most wanted terrorists that had first been given to Islamabad in 2000. Once the media started saying India was demanding the immediate handing over of the 20 fugitives, of course, the Government could hardly contradict these reports since their return has been a long-standing Indian demand, the sources added.

The demarche made only a pro forma reference to the return of unnamed fugitives but was otherwise exclusively focused on the Lashkar-e-Taiba and its leader Hafiz Saeed, whom New Delhi regards as the perpetrators of the Mumbai terror strikes.

The sources said that India did not believe the civilian government in Pakistan was involved in the incidents. Asked about the Pakistani Army chief’s potential role, they said it would be surprising if the ISI were able to operate without the military leadership’s knowledge.

Describing Pakistan as a country with a fragmented power structure, the sources said India’s response to what has happened in Mumbai could not be the same as in December 2001, when a terrorist attack on Parliament triggered the offensive deployment of troops on the border and the suspension or downgrading of transport and diplomatic links. “Then, we were dealing with one Pakistan. There was Musharraf and that was it. Today, the situation is different.”

The Pakistani Army would very much like a military crisis on the border with India because that would relieve the pressures it was facing on the Afghan front. “Our dilemma is that we don’t want to play their game — we want them to continue being engaged in the fight against terrorism in the west because that’s also our war. But we can’t give them a pass either. The perpetrators have to be fixed.”

It was because of this complexity, the sources added, that India’s public response has been very limited.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Same old 'anonymous sources' blah blah blah ... How many times have these 'authoritative sources' provided contradicting accounts in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks - dozens. No credibility here.

Either they come out with their evidence and prove it or shut up. Instead we get this BS propaganda to poison and brainwash the minds of Indians with hate against Pakistan

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Once the media started saying India was demanding the immediate handing over of the 20 fugitives, of course, the Government could hardly contradict these reports since their return has been a long-standing Indian demand, the sources added.

Oh what BS - so basically this guy is saying that the Indian Government was perfectly fine with a lie being propagated, and lied to go along with it, because of 'popular sentiment'.

Let me go further, since the 'popular sentiment', and the media sentiment, is so anti-Pakistan right now, and continuously accusing Pakistan, the government has once again decided to go along with a lie of having 'evidence of ISI involvement', because "the government could hardly contradict these reports since involvement of Pakistan in terror has been a long-standing Indian claim".

The guy destroyed his own credibility in this article.

 

[was]

India has ‘proof of ISI involvement’[/URL][/SIZE][/B]

wacth this and see what proof you had before and what proof you have now
Video Program Playing | Pakistan Herald

 

[Flintlock]

Same old 'anonymous sources' blah blah blah ... How many times have these 'authoritative sources' provided contradicting accounts in the aftermath of the Mumbai attacks - dozens. No credibility here.

Either they come out with their evidence and prove it or shut up. Instead we get this BS propaganda to poison and brainwash the minds of Indians with hate against Pakistan

Patience, patience. Let the probes finish and you'll have more credibility than you could have imagined in your wildest dreams.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Patience, patience. Let the probes finish and you'll have more credibility than you could have imagined in your wildest dreams.

Advice for patience is better directed at yourself and other Indians who continue to post articles that contradict themselves.

If you lot would exercise 'patience, patience' and not post all this garbage, we wouldn't have to respond and continually point out how contradictory and flawed most of these article are.

 

[Flintlock]

Advise for patience is better directed at yourself and other Indians who continue to post articles that contradict themselves.

If you lot would exercise 'patience, patience' and not post all this garbage, we wouldn't have to respond and continually point out how contradictory and flawed most of these article are.

You're right in this regard - but then I post as and when the media reports. Can't help it. I guess even you are duty bound to trash these reports.

However, as the results get clear and concrete, we'll see some credible sources spelling them out.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I guess even you are duty bound to trash these reports.

Thanks for understanding, kind sir.

But it seems, form the Pakistani Interior Ministers comments, and some other information, that the list of suspects only has three names (mentioned earlier), whereas the investigation seems to be focusing three or four other individuals:

Surviving gunman reveals intriguing details​

Friday, 05 Dec, 2008 | 04:37 PM PST |


MUMBAI: The sole survivor of a group of attackers who targeted the Indian financial capital of Mumbai has revealed several interesting facts regarding his training and the planning which went into coordinating the assault.

According to the Associated Press, the surviving gunman, Ajmal Amir Kasab – who is 21 - told interrogators he had been sent by the banned Pakistani militant group Lashkar-e-Tayiba and identified two of the plot's masterminds.

Senior government officials familiar with the enquiry say that Kasab told police that one of the handlers, Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi – who is Lashkar's operations chief - recruited him for the attack, and the assailants called another senior leader, Yusuf Muzammil, on a satellite phone after hijacking an Indian vessel en route to Mumbai.

The information led investigators to more closely scrutinize another Lashkar operative, Faheem Ansari.

Ansari, an Indian national, was arrested in February in north India carrying hand-drawn sketches of hotels, the train terminal and other sites that were later attacked in Mumbai, Amitabh Yash, director of the Special Task Force of the Uttar Pradesh police, said Thursday.

During his interrogation, Ansari also named Muzammil as his handler in Pakistan, adding that he trained in a Lashkar camp in Muzaffarabad - the same area where Kasab said he was trained, a senior police officer involved in the investigation said.

Ansari told police about a planned Lashkar attack on Mumbai, providing eight or nine specific locations to be targeted, Yash said, adding that Ansari had detailed sketches of the sites as well as escape routes.

Ansari said during interrogations that he carried out reconnaissance in the fall of 2007 of different Mumbai locations, including the US Consulate, the stock exchange and other sites that weren't attacked, Yash said. Ansari also confessed to arranging a safe house in Mumbai.

Authorities were working to determine whether Ansari, who is in Indian custody, helped the attackers acquire ‘such intricate knowledge of the sites,’ said Rakesh Maria, a senior Mumbai police official

Ansari linked up with Lashkar while working at a printing press in Dubai. He was taken by sea to Pakistan to the Lashkar camp in Muzaffarabad and received a false Pakistani passport and citizenship papers, Yash said.

After traveling to Nepal last year, Ansari crossed back into India and settled in Mumbai, Yash said.

He was arrested Feb. 10 in the northern city of Rampur after suspected Muslim militants attacked a police camp, killing eight constables. He said he was there to collect weapons to bring to Mumbai for a future attack.

Yash said Ansari's arrest did not derail Lashkar's plans for an attack. ‘When they found that their mole in Bombay had been caught ... they carried out the operations in a different way,’ he said.

Meanwhile, police officers said they were trying to get as much detail as possible from Kasab. ‘A terrorist of this sort is never cooperative. We have to extract information,’ said Deven Bharti, the head of the Mumbai crime branch.

DAWN.COM | World | Surviving gunman reveals intriguing details

------------------------

But of course, this is all based on 'sources' as well, so we still can't be certain. But it is interesting that this particular report does not mention any of the three names in India's list.