India as a great power: Know your own strength

[gslv mk3]

It applies to Pakistan as well, as we spend more than we can afford to but Pakistan isn't willing to claim greatness nor do we have any hegemonic desires. This is why i said that India should invest in its citizens instead of buying arms, or keep a balance to achieve real greatness. For example Indian defense budget is around 36 billion a year while the Education budget is around 9-10billion.I am no friend of India, i would rather have India carry on with ignoring development of its own citizens which will do to India what no enemy can.

We are going to spend $1 trillion for infrastructure development alone for next five years
Add aditional expenditure of education,healthcare,welfare programs(Employement guarantee act and subsidies)

What ever it is 1000 billion+other expenditures>>36*5 Billion

I guess it should have been at some other states' expense. We should have gotten Australians or germans to foot our military bill, isn't it? Not every country is like Pakistan, that it can get USA to pay for its military.

What sort of pointless comment is it anyway? It looks like an attempt to bring the whole "India has a big military when many people don't have access to toilets" sort of non argument, in disguise. It is forum policy not to talk about toilets or poverty in a defence thread, so now the tactic is to say that without saying that.

Understand this - every country's military is paid for by its citizens. And as far as spending goes, we spend less than 2 percent of our GDP every year on defence, and yet we have built one of the most powerful militaries in the region, and will build one of the most powerful in the world by 2020 or 2025.

How exactly is it "at the expense of its citizens", other than the fact that our citizens pay for it? And what alternative is there to that? Will Pakistan volunteer to lift that burden off our taxpayers and pay for us?

The same old, tired clichés thrown about whenever India's military is talked about positively - "oh but there are poor people in India." As if countries that have poverty shouldn't have a military, and as if the speaker's country has no poverty.

You said it dude!!!!!

 

[genmirajborgza786]

@janon
Best dish is water mixed with Chilli powder and salt. Eat it with Roti made on Chulha. Best.
I mean most of them.


.

holy $h!t ! I have had hemorrhoids problem, one cant even imagine what a torturous comment that was !

 

[Contrarian]

Military greatness at the expense of a state's own citizens doesn't bring greatness, it brings chaos. Good luck to India for becoming a "great power".

@Aeronaut

I wholeheartedly agree.

But there has to be a balance maintained between the two. As long as social sector spending in India remains good, then defence is not to be neglected. A neglect of defence would lead to India losing territory. That we spend the one of the lowest - apart from BD - on defence in South Asia should be an indicator that India is not following the Soviet policy of ignoring the people in favour of guns.

At the same time, spending more than necessary - welfare handouts - beyond what is necessary leads to stoppage of growth. And corruption in social sector schemes is such that any additional Rupee spent on it will inevitably go wasted.

The bread vs guns debate has been a long one in India, and you know that India spends around 2% of its GDP on defence. It is amongst the lowest in the world.

This should give you a hint - that spending on uplifting the people is more highly valued in India, spending on infrastructure is more highly valued in elections than spending on defence. This being a defence forum means you are exposed more to one side and not the other.

 

[KRAIT]

holy $h!t ! I have had hemorrhoids problem, one cant even imagine what a torturous comment that was !

This is the reality. Students from our village who came to city to study, used to eat it many times just to save money. I experienced it. I saw the dreams and hopes of the poor people in India.

That's the importance they give to education and dream to become a successful person.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This will explain.

No state can achieve greatness by feeding off its citizens to achieve military greatness instead of feeding its citizens. India may become the 4th largest spender on bombs and guns in next 6 years and claim greatness, however the same country ranks 135th on international human development index and is home to one of the largest malnourished population on earth.

It applies to Pakistan as well, as we spend more than we can afford to but Pakistan isn't willing to claim greatness nor do we have any hegemonic desires. This is why i said that India should invest in its citizens instead of buying arms, or keep a balance to achieve real greatness. For example Indian defense budget is around 36 billion a year while the Education budget is around 9-10billion.I am no friend of India, i would rather have India carry on with ignoring development of its own citizens which will do to India what no enemy can.

@Aeronaut you points are completely moot. The fact is India spends <2% of GDP on defence with the global average being 3% and Pakistan spending in excess of 5% (official figure is likely to be far more). India is one of the successes of poverty alleviation, every year India is bringing 1% of the very poorest (around 10,000,000 people) out of poverty and is one of only 2 nations set to meet the 2015 UN MDGs on poverty reductions.

Adding together all expenditure that goes to the poor in India (subsidies, education,healthcare etc) brings a total far greater than the defence budget.


The fact is India is a democracy run by politcans and these politcans might in many cases be useless but they understand that spending money on poverty relief is going to get them more votes than spending on defence in any capacity. Conversely Pakistan has for most of its history been run my military Chiefs as such vast swathes of public funds have been spent on the Pakistani military and even to date the Pakistani military holds disproportional control on the civilian govt and its spending.



Additionally @Aeronaut you seem to be under the impression that India is arming for the sake of arming which is just complete nonsense. Look at the neighbourhood India inhabits and tell me it doesn't need a military. On one hand you nation is actively attacking India and on the other you are complaining about how much India spends on defence! Are we meant to overlook the fact that Pakistan has attacked at least 3 times in the last 60+ years not to mention the relentless flow of Pakistani-trained and backed terrorists into India?


India not having a fully developed arms industry is utterly irrelevant. Unlike Pakistan which can have their most advanced fighters put out of action at the behest of the US, which weapon in India's armory could you say relies on the permission of a foreign nation to work? By the same logic most of the world is unprepared for a war. If India is in a weakened position for not having 100% self-sufficancy then I shudder to think about what position Pakistan is in.

Everything you have said about India's short comings goes triply or quadrupely for Pakistan.


What are your feelings on your "brothers" in China who face similar levels of poverty and high military expenditure?



This news seems to have particularly irked you and you have left balance at the door. Not a good show for a "moderator".

 

[Matrixx]

After reading this thread my conclusion is the India is the poorest country with no hope of development....where as Pakistani are enjoying the status of rich nation and they are growing left and right and making fun of us that India is left behind...

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Here is the list of recognized "Great powers":

USA, China, Russia, Britain and France.

Does India belong in the "Great power" category? Probably yes, since they are stronger than some of the great powers.

 

[Koovie]

Here is the list of recognized "Great powers":

USA, China, Russia, Britain and France.

Does India belong in the "Great power" category? Probably yes, since they are stronger than some of the great powers.

India is no great power at the moment. In the near future surely, at least in the military and our economy. But the strategic vision/thinking of a classical great power is something that cannot be applied to India.

 

[danger007]

This will explain.

No state can achieve greatness by feeding off its citizens to achieve military greatness instead of feeding its citizens. India may become the 4th largest spender on bombs and guns in next 6 years and claim greatness, however the same country ranks 135th on international human development index and is home to one of the largest malnourished population on earth.

It applies to Pakistan as well, as we spend more than we can afford to but Pakistan isn't willing to claim greatness nor do we have any hegemonic desires. This is why i said that India should invest in its citizens instead of buying arms, or keep a balance to achieve real greatness. For example Indian defense budget is around 36 billion a year while the Education budget is around 9-10billion.I am no friend of India, i would rather have India carry on with ignoring development of its own citizens which will do to India what no enemy can.

Mod trolling ... lol..... actually i thought bring poverty into discussion is off topic according to pdf rule.... never mind.... we eat gross but we make nukes.... do you forget about it sir? care to explain the defence spending of pakistan?

 

[Contrarian]

Here is the list of recognized "Great powers":

USA, China, Russia, Britain and France.

Does India belong in the "Great power" category? Probably yes, since they are stronger than some of the great powers.

We are not a great power yet. But we will be in another decade. Militarily we surpass a couple, but that is simply by sheer numbers and not any base development.

 

[danger007]

Here is the list of recognized "Great powers":

USA, China, Russia, Britain and France.

Does India belong in the "Great power" category? Probably yes, since they are stronger than some of the great powers.

India may be not be a great power..... but not weak to any one....

 

[INDIC]

It applies to Pakistan as well, as we spend more than we can afford to but Pakistan isn't willing to claim greatness nor do we have any hegemonic desires. This is why i said that India should invest in its citizens instead of buying arms, or keep a balance to achieve real greatness. For example Indian defense budget is around 36 billion a year while the Education budget is around 9-10billion.I am no friend of India, i would rather have India carry on with ignoring development of its own citizens which will do to India what no enemy can.

But India defence budget is mere 1.9% of GDP while education budget is more than 4% of GDP( you forgot the education budget of state governments and private sector). All kids in government run Primary schools in India gets free meal while the enrollment already reached 99.99% by 2008. in In case of Pakistan defence budget is 4.7% of GDP while education budget is mere 0.9% of GDP( India's spending on infrastrucute project is also much more than defence budget, about $1 trillion investment by 2018.

 

[KRAIT]

But India defence budget is mere 1.9% of GDP while education budget is more than 4% of GDP( you forgot the education budget of state governments and private sector). All kids in government run Primary schools in India gets free meal while the enrollment already reached 99.99% by 2008. in In case of Pakistan defence budget is 4.7% of GDP while education budget is mere 0.9% of GDP( India's spending on infrastrucute project is also much more than defence budget, about $1 trillion investment by 2018.

Another problem is less thatn 1% in Healthcare. Indian healthcare is dependent on Private hospitals.

We need to boost it up to 3-4% of GDP. We need healthy citizens for better and sustained growth.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Another problem is less thatn 1% in Healthcare. Indian healthcare is dependent on Private hospitals.

We need to boost it up to 3-4% of GDP. We need healthy citizens for better and sustained growth.

AFAIK the plan is for universal public healthcare in India by 2022. GoI has already sanctioned this and begun roll-out, the costs are HUGE though.

 

[INDIC]

For example Indian defense budget is around 36 billion a year while the Education budget is around 9-10billion.I am no friend of India, i would rather have India carry on with ignoring development of its own citizens which will do to India what no enemy can.

Something interesting from Chinese media.
China raises education spending, but more needs to be done - Xinhua | English.news.cn

BEIJING, March 13 (Xinhuanet) -- The central government spending on education will account for 4% of the country's GDP this year.

It is also clear that when we are about to eat this "apple" of "4%", others have picked a greater and sweeter "apple". The investment in education of the United States had reached 7% of GDP in 1999, and the percentage had reached 5% in India in 2003.

P.S. No offence to Chinese members, I know China's GDP size is huge.