India and NSG-News, Updates and Discussions.

[Areesh]

Not exactly.

That is the case dear. Pakistan always knew there is very little chance of Pakistan getting NSG membership. Pakistan applied so that China can use it to veto India. Mission accomplished.

 

[I M Sikander]

One wonders why Pakistan submitted an application to join a group that discriminates against them as well.

We have every right to be the me member of NSG.
We have a functional nuclear program in military, and civilian use.

We have the long experience of safe operation of nuclear power plants, nuclear desalination plant, Minning and fuel fabrication.

Pakistan has Extensive use of nuclear technology in nuclear medicine , agricultural, food processing and multi fields.

Unlike many nsg member countries Pakistan has operational nuclear power plants since 1970s. Whereas many nsg me members don't have nuclear power plants even today.

Pakistan is among few countries who have complete nuclear fuel cycle.

 

[I M Sikander]

Pakistan doesn't need Nuclear technology for military use from NSG me members. We already have that technology.

We needs NSG membership so that we can expand the use of nuclear technology in civilian sector for the benefit of country and our economy.

 

[I M Sikander]

To build case to block India. And it worked. it is pretty simple.

No not at all.
India's unilateral entry would have been devastating for Pakistan. Because in that case India would definately oppose Pakistan member ship in NSG, once they get nsg membership.

 

[cloud4000]

That is the case dear. Pakistan always knew there is very little chance of Pakistan getting NSG membership. Pakistan applied so that China can use it to veto India. Mission accomplished.

What exactly did Pakistan get? A diplomatic victory? How short-lived will this be? India has the waiver and will make its deals bilaterally. Can Pakistan do the same?

We have every right to be the me member of NSG.
We have a functional nuclear program in military, and civilian use.

We have the long experience of safe operation of nuclear power plants, nuclear desalination plant, Minning and fuel fabrication.

Pakistan has Extensive use of nuclear technology in nuclear medicine , agricultural, food processing and multi fields.

Unlike many nsg member countries Pakistan has operational nuclear power plants since 1970s. Whereas many nsg me members don't have nuclear power plants even today.

Pakistan is among few countries who have complete nuclear fuel cycle.

According to China's own reason for rejecting India's membership, they should reject Pakistan's membership too.

 

[I M Sikander]

That is the case dear. Pakistan always knew there is very little chance of Pakistan getting NSG membership. Pakistan applied so that China can use it to veto India. Mission accomplished.

Better not speculate about Pakistan when indias request to join nsg has been rejected. And its not just China , its 12 more countries that opposed India's request to join NSG.

India is blaming China for their own diplomatic failure, as a scape goat.

 

[I M Sikander]

What exactly did Pakistan get? A diplomatic victory? How short-lived will this be? India has the waiver and will make its deals bilaterally. Can Pakistan do the same.

Pakistan already doing bilateral nuclear trade with china.

China has supplied 4 nuclear power plants to Pakistan, installed in chashma.

Even two 1125 MW bigger size nuclear power plants are also under construction with Chinese help in Karachi.

India is doing the same bilateral nuclear trade with America , France and Russia.

 

[illusion8]

Better not speculate about Pakistan when indias request to join nsg has been rejected. And its not just China , its 12 more countries that opposed India's request to join NSG.

India is blaming China for their own diplomatic failure, as a scape goat.

Do you mind naming those 12 countries?

 

[Spring Onion]

Because we didn't lose anything, and we got something nice in return, the right to build multiple nuclear reactors in Pakistan outside of NSG rules.

And sure, we wouldn't lose anything by letting India into the NSG either.

But since India sold their sovereignty to the USA in exchange for NSG support, we know India wants it badly enough to pay a big price for it. Modi offering a few nuclear reactors and industrial parks is nice, but not enough.

for the red part Isn't it a bad bargain on the part of India?

I mean one way or the other India might get into NSG and as you said China would lose nothing even to let her into NSG, then why India is all ready to bow to US?

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Because we didn't lose anything, and we got something nice in return, the right to build multiple nuclear reactors in Pakistan outside of NSG rules.

Either being a think-tank you are oblivious to "grandfather clause" in NSG or making a cheap attempt to save face here


China is exporting nuclear reactors based on agreements with Pakistan prior to joining the NSG. Not a new supply of reactors.

First, the requirement applies only to subsequent nuclear cooperation and does not cover supply commitments that existed at the time; this provision is known as the “grandfather clause.” Second, the guidelines permit nuclear exports to states without comprehensive safeguards in exceptional cases when such exports are “deemed essential for the safe operation of existing facilities and if safeguards are applied to those facilities.”

Russia has exploited both these loopholes to justify nuclear sales to India. Moscow justified its nuclear exports toIndia in the late 1990s by claiming that they were grandfathered by the Russian-Indian agreement of 1988. However, that agreement was a general legal framework for cooperation and contained no commitments to supply. The United States and other NSG members raised questions about this cooperation to no avail. In 2001,Russia exported low-enriched uranium to India for fueling the Tarapur reactors, citing the safety exception. TheUnited States and others regarded this export as a violation of Russia’s commitment to the comprehensive safeguards guideline. Russia signed another reactor deal with India in 2007 and delivered nuclear fuel to Indiaeven before the NSG in 2008 exempted India from its comprehensive safeguards requirement.

China now is citing the grandfather clause as justification for its planned assistance to Pakistan’s civil nuclear reactors. In a formal “declaration of existing projects” made at the time it joined the NSG in 2004, Beijing informed the NSG of its 1991 cooperation agreement with Pakistan under which it had supplied a 300-megawatt reactor at Chashma and had just undertaken to supply an additional 325-megawatt reactor at the same location.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2011_01-02/McGoldrick

It would be interesting to see China justify a "new" reactor sale to Pakistan under the "grandfather clause"

And sure, we wouldn't lose anything by letting India into the NSG either.

Indeed China doesn't thats why China tried to oppose both NSG waiver and NSG membership for India.

Allowing India to import Uranium in no way frees up its own Uranium reserves specifically to be used for nuclear weapons, which do not target China.

But since India sold their sovereignty to the USA in exchange for NSG support, we know India wants it badly enough to pay a big price for it. Modi offering a few nuclear reactors and industrial parks is nice, but not enough.

How does USA support for India's NSG support compromise on sovereignty, unless you are gullible enough to believe under Indo-US nuke deal, USA has stationed its nuclear arsenal on Indian soil

 

[illusion8]

Haha.
It's entertaining , howw uncle sam is trying to threat the Big day China.
By the way, it's not just china , it's 16 more countries in 48 member NSG that opposed India's membership.

Do you mind naming those 16 countries?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

for the red part Isn't it a bad bargain on the part of India?

I mean one way or the other India might get into NSG and as you said China would lose nothing even to let her into NSG, then why India is all ready to bow to US?

Yep, India sold their sovereignty and didn't even get the NSG seat they were promised.

Bad deal for them, just like when they tried to use their master against us in 1962. They just have no idea what they are doing.

 

[Indika]

India called the USA to come fight for them. Why does it feel like it has happened before?

Oh wait...

India pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - Times of India

And just like before, the USA ended up using India as a pawn and a meat shield against China.

Whats new dint US use china against soviets. US has been using china for long time, only India is new.

 

[ito]

That is the case dear. Pakistan always knew there is very little chance of Pakistan getting NSG membership. Pakistan applied so that China can use it to veto India. Mission accomplished.

Pakistan was never a factor in India not getting NSG.

 

[cloud4000]

Yep, India sold their sovereignty and didn't even get the NSG seat they were promised.

Bad deal for them, just like when they tried to use their master against us in 1962. They just have no idea what they are doing.

Give us Indians some credit. We won't sell our sovereignty for membership in NSG.