In Pursuit of Type-214 (Brasstacks)

[Spring Onion]

I don't think Type 214 is actually dead...but is being revised to settle between German and French submarines. Last we heard from PakDef, the PN was looking to acquire 4 French Andrasta Class mini-SSK alongside the Type 214s from Germany. Let us see where this goes.

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showth...iscussion-May-August-2010&p=178849#post178849

Sir as far as my information is its been put at permanent halt. The Navy does NOT Need French ones. It had given its recommendation for Type 214 .

 

[amalakas]

I'll agree by stressing more on the "more than".Running on fuel cells is always quieter.On the other hand the reactor does make some rather soft noise and the sub is bulkier so an easy target.

Btw what's the problem with the design.Is sth wrong with the hull?

Here is an interesting read.




Greece in Default on U-214 Submarine Order

The first ever 214, which is the the Greek "papanikolis", was listing.. heavily.. the Germans could'nt figure out why and added balast at random places.... to correct that... Greek navy suggests that is dangerous for the stability of the boat.

Greece in Default on U-214 Submarine Order

we need more subs can we buy this sub from greece , if greece failed to buy

Greece did not fail to buy, the ships are more than paid for.. almost 3bn euros have been paid for them... with about 500m remaining

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Originally Posted by amalakas
"The first ever 214, which is the the Greek "papanikolis", was listing.. heavily.. the Germans could'nt figure out why and added balast at random places.... to correct that... Greek navy suggests that is dangerous for the stability of the boat."


@ amalakas
Thanks for clarifying. Stability issues for a surface ship is serious enough matter. For a submerged craft, it can be fatal. You mention that the German builders had to add ballast "randomly". This seems to be a pointer towards some serious design flaws. Is that so ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir as far as my information is its been put at permanent halt. The Navy does NOT Need French ones. It had given its recommendation for Type 214 .

Well till we hear something officially from the Germans or Naval guys, we can all best speculate and say whatever is told to us.

PN going for smaller subs is also logical, as it will safe costs, and right now we are in financial crunch, as well as we need subs badly.

So the best outcome is buy something smaller, right now and wait for a few years to go for something big and most sophisticated.

One option can be, go for Chinese subs, as well as French smaller ones, Chinese ones can most probably be bought on seller credit, while French would be paid upfront.

Once the financial position gets better in 2-3 years time, then we can order U-214s, this way, we can have a good number of subs by the end of this decade, and that is the need of the hour, as by 2020, we can only counter the IN might through having good number of subs, we can't match them ship to ship.

 

[Spring Onion]

Well till we hear something officially from the Germans or Naval guys, we can all best speculate and say whatever is told to us.

PN going for smaller subs is also logical, as it will safe costs, and right now we are in financial crunch, as well as we need subs badly.

So the best outcome is buy something smaller, right now and wait for a few years to go for something big and most sophisticated.

One option can be, go for Chinese subs, as well as French smaller ones, Chinese ones can most probably be bought on seller credit, while French would be paid upfront.

Once the financial position gets better in 2-3 years time, then we can order U-214s, this way, we can have a good number of subs by the end of this decade, and that is the need of the hour, as by 2020, we can only counter the IN might through having good number of subs, we can't match them ship to ship.

Sir lets hope for the best but things seem more difficult with the naval chief one step climbed the official designation recently.

finances was NOT the issue as Germans are ready to pay for it on soft conditions

 

[amalakas]

Originally Posted by amalakas
"The first ever 214, which is the the Greek "papanikolis", was listing.. heavily.. the Germans could'nt figure out why and added balast at random places.... to correct that... Greek navy suggests that is dangerous for the stability of the boat."


@ amalakas
Thanks for clarifying. Stability issues for a surface ship is serious enough matter. For a submerged craft, it can be fatal. You mention that the German builders had to add ballast "randomly". This seems to be a pointer towards some serious design flaws. Is that so ?

To be honest, right now nobody knows, The Germans refuse to accept that it is a design flaw and the other 3 ships are almost perfect (i.e. meet the specs set by the Greek navy at like 95%),
so maybe something went wrong with the first ever ship, or the did find out what the design flaw was with the first ship and fixed it in the other 3 ..

The ship was listing really badly, something like 40-50 degrees port side if i remember correctly..

We have been informed by the special press that it has now been fixed... but maybe in a way that doesn't make the navy happy...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Originally Posted by amalakas
"The ship was listing really badly, something like 40-50 degrees port side if i remember correctly.. "

Thanks for the response.
Any ship listing like that is in serious trouble. And if the corrective action involves adding ballast randomly; then the core issue may run deeper.
And you have added that the problem is not existent on the other three; does that mean that a similar fix of adding ballast randomly was used ?
It does not sound as if everything is "nautically" hunky-dory.

 

[SEAL]

PN is doing the right thing PN is looking for 7 submarines and options are;

U-214
Song Class/Type-039
Andrasta
Merlin

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Navy to buy seven submarines

If we sign U-214 contract today the first U214 would be delivered to the Pakistan Navy in 2016/17 (64 months)


3 Chinese Song Class are good for attack they can fire long range Cruise missiles and we can integrate many western technologies in them (Turkish/French) there will no restrictions from China.
We have experience of Agosta-90B, our engineers and Chinese engineers can work together to make it better a customize version of Chinese submarine according to the requirements of PN.


On October 26, 2006, a Chinese Song class submarine is said to have "popped up" and "surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected" within 5 nautical miles (9 km) of the carrier USS Kitty Hawk (CV-63) while she was operating in the Pacific Ocean.

 

[amalakas]

Originally Posted by amalakas
"The ship was listing really badly, something like 40-50 degrees port side if i remember correctly.. "

Thanks for the response.
Any ship listing like that is in serious trouble. And if the corrective action involves adding ballast randomly; then the core issue may run deeper.
And you have added that the problem is not existent on the other three; does that mean that a similar fix of adding ballast randomly was used ?
It does not sound as if everything is "nautically" hunky-dory.

The other 3 ships were built in Greek Shipyards. The ships were built according to German instructions & guidance.. so I am afraid we don't know what the Germans did with the first boat, since it was built in Germany ...

 

[Super Falcon]

well agreed with growler that we are enemies of our own country we donr need outside enemies to destory pakistan and they are not capable of destroying pakistan no matter how much nukes they have but if anyone can destroy pakistan that will be our own people and they are doing exactly that

 

[mughaljee]

The Navy does NOT Need French ones. It had given its recommendation for Type 214 .

Then what we are waiting for ? (Type U-214)

 

[Arsalan]

dont pakistani officials love screwing with the country!

yet again another F-22P A-90B type blunders.

i simply dont understand growler what makes yo say the F-22p and agost 90-b a Blunder??

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

well the only other option that comes to mind is perhaps go for the Song Class subs from china and seek turkish help if they can give some intel of westren U214. we also ahve good experience in Agosa 90-b and that too can come to help.

regards!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well Pakistan should just get anything , as we have not closed a deal in ages

 

[Jigs]

Well Pakistan should just get anything , as we have not closed a deal in ages

U214 deal went down because of budget issues i think PN might have to wait a year or two before a deal gets done. Unless a soft loan type thing can be worked out with china for a few of their AIP subs.