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In Pakistan, pro-American sentiment is rare

The crucial factor in the US-Pakistani relationship decline is not the the feeling of 'hurt' over Pakistan's loss of sovereignty but the public media trial of Pakistan by the US Congress members and the media pundits. Shortly after the OBL raid, Pakistan's Foreign Secretary said something like '..all we are asking is a semblance of decorum in the public space..'. But, sadly, Americans saw it fit it humiliate and incriminate the state of Pakistan without providing the slightest proof of official complicity while exaggerating OBL's personal residence's as a 'mansion' and its proximity to the state of Pakistan.
That was the crudest and most stupidest way to repeat the 'do more' mantra. It backfired big, and perhaps, permanently.

Now, people like @Juice may continue to stroke their egos and put down Pakistan. To them the victim is the culprit. To them it does not matter that Pakistan deployed upward of 140,000 troops AWAY FROM INDIA to fight the damned militants. To them every Pakistani mother crying for her son deserves it because Pakistan is a jihadi hellhole. To them Pakistanis are the savages like the American Indians were. The 'Japs' or the 'Huns' or the 'Gooks' or the 'Commies' for the present generation of Americans. Americans need to hate enemies to the point that even if tens of thousands of the enemies are dead then the dead deserved it. I wish these people had at least saw what their own Rumsfeld said about the OBL raid and Pakistan's role in it.
 
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@ Solomon

Yes indeed the extremists will hate any american for liking Pakistan just like what happened with former US air force chief who was removed from his post because of his pro Pakistani stance

‘Love’ for Pakistan cost the USAF chief his job

http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=53410&Cat=2&dt=6/19/2011

There are many retards like Bruce Ridel who declare fellow Americans as closet lovers of Pakistan just for saying some based on the facts on ground that Pakistan has sacrificed more than any other nation for the fulfillment of US objectives !!!
 
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The crucial factor in the US-Pakistani relationship decline is not the the feeling of 'hurt' over Pakistan's loss of sovereignty but the public media trial of Pakistan by the US Congress members and the media pundits. Shortly after the OBL raid, Pakistan's Foreign Secretary said something like '..all we are asking is a semblance of decorum in the public space..'. But, sadly, Americans saw it fit it humiliate and incriminate the state of Pakistan without providing the slightest proof of official complicity while exaggerating OBL's personal residence's as a 'mansion' and its proximity to the state of Pakistan.
That was the crudest and most stupidest way to repeat the 'do more' mantra. It backfired big, and perhaps, permanently.

Now, people like @Juice may continue to stroke their egos and put down Pakistan. To them the victim is the culprit. To them it does not matter that Pakistan deployed upward of 140,000 troops AWAY FROM INDIA to fight the damned militants. To them every Pakistani mother crying for her son deserves it because Pakistan is a jihadi hellhole. To them Pakistanis are the savages like the American Indians were. The 'Japs' or the 'Huns' or the 'Gooks' or the 'Commies' for the present generation of Americans. Americans need to hate enemies to the point that even if tens of thousands of the enemies are dead then the dead deserved it. I wish these people had at least saw what their own Rumsfeld said about the OBL raid and Pakistan's role in it.

I was not putting down Pakistan, I was making an obsevation. I find the region interesting, and am a vet so I follow world affairs closer than some. Most of my friends Know there is a country called Pakistan, and that they get bad press...little else. This not only doesn't stroke my ego, it pisses me off.
(excuse my typing, at my fathers and his keyboard is full of crud)
 
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I was not putting down Pakistan, I was making an obsevation. I find the region interesting, and am a vet so I follow world affairs closer than some. Most of my friends Know there is a country called Pakistan, and that they get bad press...little else. This not only doesn't stroke my ego, it pisses me off.
(excuse my typing, at my fathers and his keyboard is full of crud)

You know soloman I admire you it must be realy difficult to come here on this forum and try to put a positive twist to all the evil that america does in the name of freedom etc.
 
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The crucial factor in the US-Pakistani relationship decline is not the the feeling of 'hurt' over Pakistan's loss of sovereignty but the public media trial of Pakistan by the US Congress members and the media pundits. Shortly after the OBL raid, Pakistan's Foreign Secretary said something like '..all we are asking is a semblance of decorum in the public space..'. But, sadly, Americans saw it fit it humiliate and incriminate the state of Pakistan without providing the slightest proof of official complicity while exaggerating OBL's personal residence's as a 'mansion' and its proximity to the state of Pakistan.
That was the crudest and most stupidest way to repeat the 'do more' mantra. It backfired big, and perhaps, permanently.

Now, people like @Juice may continue to stroke their egos and put down Pakistan. To them the victim is the culprit. To them it does not matter that Pakistan deployed upward of 140,000 troops AWAY FROM INDIA to fight the damned militants.
1. To them every Pakistani mother crying for her son deserves it because Pakistan is a jihadi hellhole. To them Pakistanis are the savages like the American Indians were. The 'Japs' or the 'Huns' or the 'Gooks' or the 'Commies' for the present generation of Americans.

2. Americans need to hate enemies to the point that even if tens of thousands of the enemies are dead then the dead deserved it. I wish these people had at least saw what their own Rumsfeld said about the OBL raid and Pakistan's role in it.

1. That is a very very wrong generalization. Nobody likes Jihadis, no bones about that. But you ought to know that Pakistanis form a respectable part of society here in US. Most of them, at least the ones I know or see are either successful businessmen or highly respected physicians. People see the dichotomy of Pakistani society and instead of blaming the whole population, sympathize with the incompetence of your government institutions and leaders.

2. About 2nd statement, you couldnt be more wrong! Killing is a part of war. Killing enemy combatants more so. If enemy combatants are killed, yes they deserved it, just like we Indians believe the Kashmiri jehadis and militans deserve what they get. If they saw regular people as enemies, US citizens wouldnt be the first responders to many a natural disasters Pakistan has faced.
 
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The F.O. admitted that the U.S. had applied for it months ago and that the F.O. had not objected. That fulfills the requirement under international law. If Pakistan's laws don't conform with the treaty it is a signatory to that is Pakistan's problem, not America's and not Davis'.
The Pakistani FO, and FM Qureshi, poitned out that the request for Davis's diplomatic immunity was countered with more information regarding his responsibilities in Pakistan - requests that were never answered by the US. In this case notification does not do squat since Pakistan's request for more information made clear that it had concerns over Davis's exact responsibilities.

What, did you investigate? There's plenty of stuff on soldier's blogs about how their targets were tipped off within minutes of sharing info with Pakistani intelligence. It's not for nothing that, as Wikileaks revealed, the ISI is listed among the affiliation of numerous terrorists at Guantanamo.
What information? Anecdotal? Where is the official US Statement regarding these alleged 'tip off's?

There is an entire thread on this subject, where the US media allegations/propaganda have been refuted - respond to this issue on the relevant thread after reading through it.

It is unfair that the NYT gets the scoops rather than the local D.C. papers. That's probably because the NYT is less critical of this Administration than the others.
The NYT also got the 'scoop' (aka lies and US propaganda) about Iraqi WMD's. These 'scoops' are nothing but carefully issued propaganda, which is plastered in the US media without the opposing POV, or if the opposing POV is included, it is marginalized.

If you are arresting "hundreds" then they aren't leaders, just middle management and hence easily replaceable.
Khalid Shaikh Mohammd, Libbi, Ramzi Yousuf were 'leaders', and if they were 'easily replaceable', they would not have been so high on the 'target list'.

Didn't you ever question what the P.A.'s role could be in making this all possible?
Musharraf was pretty clean in stating that the PA received no cooperation or coordination in terms of the US military invasion of Afghanistan. As in the case of the Abbottabad operation, the US went it alone in Afghanistan, and did not utuilzie the PA in sealing off the Afghan borders along areas where US/NA Military operations were taking place.

Nor did the US utilize its own forces in sealing off those borders, in essence allowing the Taliban and AQ leadership and cadres to cross over into Pakistan.

We didn't "start" it. No American knew on 9/10 that war would come to us on 9/11. We joined battle with the forces we could muster, prepared or not.
The US did 'start the war', the Taliban were willing to negotiate an OBL trial in a mutually agreed upon third country - the US refused to consider those, rational, options.

This was a war of choice, with other options available, it was not a war of necessity and it was not a 'ggod war'.

At the end of the day, after hundreds of thousands dead, hundreds of billions spent and greater extremism and terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan than before the war, the US is now back to 'negotiating with the Taliban to arrive at a political settlement'.

All this bloodshed, terrorism and economic losses could have been avoided had the US chosen to negotiate with the Taliban in 2001, instead of in 2011.
Targeting security forces is usually considered an act of rebellion but going after innocent civilians is terrorism.
And what would you call the attacks on non-combatant teachers, doctors, professors, workers, miners etc.? What would you call the open claims by Baluch terrorist organizations to eliminate the 'non Baluch ethnic groups in Baluchistan' and the thousands of non-Baluch that have been killed in attacks by these terrorists?
Why Pakistan didn't more actively pursue Bugti by going public to pressure the U.S. and Afghanistan I don't know, nor do I know why the U.S. didn't take a hand in apprehending Bugti if he was in U.S. reach.
Nonsense - Pakistan raised the issue of Baluch terrorists and Bugti at every level and at every forum - surely you remember how many times on this forum alone the issue of Afghanistan sheltering Bugti and other Baluch terrorists was raised, and met with derision and denials by the likes of you and S2. The Western media, manipulated by the US establishement, derided Pakistani allegations as 'conspiracy theories and paranoia'.

And now the Wikileaks disclosures clearly indicate that the US was aware of Bugti being sheltered by Afghanistan, and did nothing about it, and in the end facilitated his travel to Switzerland to obtain 'asylum'. What is that if not blatant support for terrorism and terrorist leaders?

And Pakistan is vilified for 'supporting OBL' when not even a shred of credible evidence indicates Paksitani knowledge of his existence in Pakistan.
Perhaps lawyers intervened, saying the proof of his complicity in terror acts was insufficient? Do you know of anything specific? Did you never question that it could have been Pakistani officials, rather than American officials, committing and perpetrating errors?
I am sorry, but did the US actually 'prove the guilt of OBL' in perpetrating 9/11 before launching a war against Afghanistan and invading it?

Double standards and hypocrisy fit the US like a glove.
 
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Dear readers, is it not unfortunate that no matter how much cooperation is achieved, and that no matter how much we work together for security and stability, and no matter how much training and assistance we provide for some it is never enough. Is that the way of the pious, is that the way of the learned, is that the way of those at peace.

Pakistanis are killed every day by the Taliban and Al Qaida. Did we not witness the suicide blast by a brainwashed couple from Uzbekistan who blew themselves up to kill innocents? Do we, forum readers, not realize that without our military to military cooperation all would be at their mercy if Taliban had taken control of a resource rich country like Pakistan? We along with the Pakistani security forces have curtained them and they will soon be eliminated.

It has always been our resolve to work with the government and people of Pakistan. Have we not worked together during Pakistan’s difficult time after the 2005 earthquake and after last year’s flood? Was it not the American people who opened their hearts and pockets to help rebuild Pakistan after theses devastating natural disasters? I wonder how someone would do that without knowing about that country.

We know who our enemy is and who is killing innocent Pakistanis everyday… Our futures are connected and we need to work together to build a better and peaceful word without terror. Would you not agree?

CDR Bill Speaks,
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command
 
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Dear readers, is it not unfortunate that no matter how much cooperation is achieved, and that no matter how much we work together for security and stability, and no matter how much training and assistance we provide for some it is never enough. Is that the way of the pious, is that the way of the learned, is that the way of those at peace.

Pakistanis are killed every day by the Taliban and Al Qaida. Did we not witness the suicide blast by a brainwashed couple from Uzbekistan who blew themselves up to kill innocents? Do we, forum readers, not realize that without our military to military cooperation all would be at their mercy if Taliban had taken control of a resource rich country like Pakistan? We along with the Pakistani security forces have curtained them and they will soon be eliminated.

It has always been our resolve to work with the government and people of Pakistan. Have we not worked together during Pakistan’s difficult time after the 2005 earthquake and after last year’s flood? Was it not the American people who opened their hearts and pockets to help rebuild Pakistan after theses devastating natural disasters? I wonder how someone would do that without knowing about that country.

We know who our enemy is and who is killing innocent Pakistanis everyday… Our futures are connected and we need to work together to build a better and peaceful word without terror. Would you not agree?

CDR Bill Speaks,
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

What we need for the US to do is to conduct its relationship with Pakistan in a transparent, fair and equitable manner.

What we need for the US to do is to respect the views and opinions of the Pakistani people and refrain from conducting US led military operations on Pakistani soil. Drone strikes and commando raids should be conducted by Pakistan, with the US in an advisory/supporting role only.

What we need for the US to do is to enter into an OFFICIAL Counter terrorism and intelligence sharing agreement with Pakistan, ratified by the Pakistani Parliament and US legislature.

What we need for the US to do is to end double standards with respect to Pakistan, such as arbitrary waivers from the NSG for India.

What we need for the US to do is to end the malicious media propagand campaign, through carefully leaked 'scoops from anonymous sources', against Pakistan.

Without an end to these double standards and duplictious policies WRT Pakistan, the US is not cooperating with Pakistan - it is bullying and forcing Pakistan to do what the US wants.

This isn't a relationship, its thuggery.
 
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