In Future we should get Gripen NG for our AF

[Flynn Swagmire]

why J10B ? why not J11B ?

Dont know

 

[BDforever]

Dont know

ok here is some comparison.

both are almost similarly equipped.
but J11 is superior performer than J10. ( important for dog fight)
J10 mach speed:2.2
J11 mach speed: 2.35

J10 service ceiling: 59,055ft
J11 service ceiling: 62,523ft

J10 rate of climb: 285m/s
J11 rate of climb: 300m/s
(other performance almost same, except combat radious , not sure J10's exact combat radious)
so, if you consider for multi role (bomber+ air superiority) , J11 is better

another most important part
Thrust/weight: J10: 1.017, J11:1.07, so J11 is more maneuverable than J10. (big factor for dog fight)

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

haha j-31 is a state of chinese art. they will not sell us .

Bro, J-31 is a counterpart of F-35 and it is for selling.

someone named satishchandra wants jamaat in power!!

Jamat in Power! ও রে আমারে মাইরালা, কি হুনতাসি আমি

 

[Luftwaffe]

This Thread is Failing you people are not discussing the technical and political points.

 

[Zabaniyah]

what is bangla annual defence budget

Military Spending

 

[danger007]

ok here is some comparison.

both are almost similarly equipped.
but J11 is superior performer than J10. ( important for dog fight)
J10 mach speed:2.2
J11 mach speed: 2.35

J10 service ceiling: 59,055ft
J11 service ceiling: 62,523ft

J10 rate of climb: 285m/s
J11 rate of climb: 300m/s
(other performance almost same, except combat radious , not sure J10's exact combat radious)
so, if you consider for multi role (bomber+ air superiority) , J11 is better

another most important part
Thrust/weight: J10: 1.017, J11:1.07, so J11 is more maneuverable than J10. (big factor for dog fight)

Those things you mentioned are very little you need to look on RADAR , weapons package, EW suites, Range etc....

 

[Zabaniyah]

mate one thing that i can't understand is why the majority of you guys are jumping for the Grippen-NG when the chinese made J-10B is nearly as capable(if not more) as the Grippen and BD has got a good relation with the china.so i would advice you guys to go for the J-10B when it becomes operational in around 2014-15 and if you can negotiate with the chinese you may get some soft loan from them.
off topic:-mate you avatar pic is really cool.does the person in the picture belongs to the BD special forces?

I'd be very surprised if the J-10B benchmarks the F-16 blk 52

J11B my bro
J10 has disadvantage of combat radius. Combat radius: 1,600 km (with air to air refueling), 550 km (without air to air refueling).
J11 does not have this problem
i choose J11B after evaluating many factors.

Did you now that J-10B's have beaten J-11's in exercises before? Honestly, I do not think that that Chinese would easily offer Bangladesh those platforms.

I think one has to be insane to even think about importing J-11's from China at present. It's a controversial plane.

Given Bangladesh's lack of a clear defense policy, acquisition of advanced weapons are often tricky and difficult.

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

ok here is some comparison.

both are almost similarly equipped.
but J11 is superior performer than J10. ( important for dog fight)
J10 mach speed:2.2
J11 mach speed: 2.35

J10 service ceiling: 59,055ft
J11 service ceiling: 62,523ft

J10 rate of climb: 285m/s
J11 rate of climb: 300m/s
(other performance almost same, except combat radious , not sure J10's exact combat radious)
so, if you consider for multi role (bomber+ air superiority) , J11 is better

another most important part
Thrust/weight: J10: 1.017, J11:1.07, so J11 is more maneuverable than J10. (big factor for dog fight)

Can we get custom avionics like Indian MKIs?

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

I'd be very surprised if the J-10B benchmarks the F-16 blk 52



Did you now that J-10B's have beaten J-11's in exercises before? Honestly, I do not think that that Chinese would easily offer Bangladesh those platforms.

I think one has to be insane to even think about importing J-11's from China at present. It's a controversial plane.

Given Bangladesh's lack of a clear defense policy, acquisition of advanced weapons are often tricky and difficult.

There are problem in every bit for bangladeshi's. Go for Gripen NG problem, Go for J-10 problem, Go for J-11 problem and so on......

 

[Lone]

Yes sir, you are compairing Apple with Symphony.

I know, I'm. I am using apple now I know how it feels. But Gripen is full of strings and conditions. DOn't you see it? We cannot even afford a countable number of gripen FAC. It uses US engine, some of the strike packages is also come with conditions. Right now I cannot use my iphone in BD cause I'm in a two years contract here, but I can use my LG 3G here and in bd too. Apple is too high fashioned, well finished, hitech product. But my LG 3G does all the work I need.

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

I know, I'm. I am using apple now I know how it feels. But Gripen is full of strings and conditions. DOn't you see it? We cannot even afford a countable number of gripen FAC. It uses US engine, some of the strike packages is also come with conditions. Right now I cannot use my iphone in BD cause I'm in a two years contract here, but I can use my LG 3G here and in bd too. Apple is too high fashioned, well finished, hitech product. But my LG 3G does all the work I need.

Some member told me, China may not give us J-10B too. Then what to do? তা ভাই আপনার খাউরা আপেল কত দিয়া কিনসেন?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Can we get custom avionics like Indian MKIs?

We cannot develop our own aircraft avionics like India can. We can add some French systems since we have good relations with the EU states.

We do not have diplomatic relations with Israel, so that is out of the question. I believe much of MKI's avionics is mainly done so in order for it to be compatible to communicate with IAF's Phalcon AWACS.

It is known that Malaysia's Su-30MKM are very similar to that of the MKI. But still, inferior.

Some member told me, China may not give us J-10B too. Then what to do? তা ভাই আপনার খাউরা আপেল কত দিয়া কিনসেন?

Formulate a functional defense policy. We do not have one at present!

The kind of technology we are talking about here are sensitive technology. No nation would easily sell off their technologies to another nation in an unsecured manner.

There's a reason why the US does not easily sell the F-16 E/F variant, F-15's or the AMRAAM BVR missile to anyone. The F-15 is only used by a relatively few client nations.

That similarly applies to the J-10B, which is still a very new plane. The Chinese certainly won't allow the Indians to get a sneak at it

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

We cannot develop our own aircraft avionics like India can. We can add some French systems since we have good relations with the EU states.

We do not have diplomatic relations with Israel, so that is out of the question. I believe much of MKI's avionics is mainly done so in order for it to be compatible to communicate with IAF's Phalcon AWACS.

It is known that Malaysia's Su-30MKM are very similar to that of the MKI. But still, inferior.



Formulate a functional defense policy. We do not have one at present!

The kind of technology we are talking about here are sensitive technology. No nation would easily sell off their technologies to another nation in an unsecured manner.

There's a reason why the US does not easily sell the F-16 E/F variant, F-15's or the AMRAAM BVR missile to anyone. The F-15 is only used by a relatively few client nations.

That similarly applies to the J-10B, which is still a very new plane. The Chinese certainly won't allow the Indians to get a sneak at it

Problem Problem. Than what is best for us?

 

[kalu_miah]

There are problem in every bit for bangladeshi's. Go for Gripen NG problem, Go for J-10 problem, Go for J-11 problem and so on......

I think avionics and arms/ammunitions are not biggest problems or bottleneck. The biggest issue seems to be engines. Only few countries can make these engines, the US, UK and Russia. China just got one working (WS-10) and is on its way to become a full fledged engine maker.

I think we should stay away from US/UK made engines. We are with Russian engines for now. When Chinese engines mature, we can move away from Russian engines gradually and go for all Chinese engines. We should also keep our eyes open towards Korean and Japanese aerospace industries, just like other Asian countries such as Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Philippines, all of whom have either bought Korean fighter planes, invested in KAI projects or are thinking about doing so.

Here is a great discussion on Chinese engines:
The

In terms of raw numbers of aircraft being built, China has become the world’s largest producer of fighter aircraft over the past three years. Now observers are waiting to see if the newly announced investment plans can help bring China’s military jet engine manufacturing capabilities to a level commensurate with the country’s ability to build airframes. The stakes are high because once China masters indigenous production of high-performance jet engines, there will be few, if any, technical constraints on its ability to rapidly produce late-generation fighters for its own forces and for export markets.

This is a daunting task indeed. When it comes to future efforts to export aircraft with Chinese engines, Beijing may be burdened with an “80% solution” pattern. According to Reuben Johnson, China’s particular technological development approach produces a common pattern in performance parameters of the systems it develops: “Chinese always seem to be able to achieve around 80% of the performance of whatever they’re trying to mimic; the last 20% would be difficult and expensive to accomplish.” This approach may produce significant and even superlative performance in categories in which ‘quantity has a quality all its own’—as with missiles—but limits results in areas where workarounds are scarce or unavailable, as with aeroengines.

It will be hard to convince China’s military and export customers that they should accept a substandard Chinese engine when China has previously used imported engines (e.g., a Ukrainian engine in the L-15 trainer); asking them to accept an unfamiliar product represents a great leap of faith. Increasing indigenous efforts in this area may reignite previous tension between the interests of China’s aviation industry as a producer and the PLAAF and PLAN as end-users—just as the Indonesian Air Force opposed the ambitious efforts of Dr. B.J. Habibi and the state-owned enterprise Industri Pesawat Terbang Nusantara (IPTN)—now known as Indonesian Aerospace—and the Indian Air Force is often at loggerheads with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited over jet engine issues.

China is increasingly recognizing that aeroengines represent the “long pole in the tent” of military aircraft production, but has a long way to go before it can remove this as a limiting factor. Even with China’s existing resources and growing expertise, this process is likely to take time to even approach the accomplishments that the Big Three, secondary Western European, and Russian aeroengine manufacturers have achieved after many years of arduous development.

Japan Aims To Launch F-3 Development In 2016-17

The power of the IHI demonstrator engine is surprising. It would generate 50% more thrust than the General Electric F414, two of which power the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet. The Super Hornet's thrust is not notably high for its empty mass, 14.6 tons (32,100 lb.), but in a twin-engine installation the output of the IHI demonstrator would be abundant for a larger, budget-straining aircraft. It does seem that Japan is looking for a twin aircraft: In a single installation, the engine would be adequate for only a modestly sized fighter, hardly suitable as an F-15 replacement.

Japan has discussed plans for such an engine for some time, but the specific thrust and intention to build a full-scale demonstrator have not been disclosed. Japanese industry revealed a drawing of the engine last year, showing that it would follow the general configuration of the Pratt & Whitney F119 and have a sophisticated arrangement of inlet vanes designed to disrupt radar reflections (AW&ST Feb. 14, 2011, p. 33). In its budget request for the fiscal year beginning April 1, 2013, the ministry has published drawings of three of the engine's modules: fan, high-pressure section and the low-pressure turbine.

The key goal of the engine program is to build an unusually slim turbofan. The low frontal area and the modest bypass ratio evident in drawings would both promote the ability to fly supersonically without afterburner. So would the generous thrust, although 33,000 lb. must be the afterburning rating; the maximum dry output is unknown.

Researchers are aiming to achieve the highest possible temperature at the inlet to the high-pressure turbine, the ministry says in its budget request. They can already achieve 1,600C (2,900F) but want to go higher during the study program, while also reducing engine weight, it says. Mitsubishi Heavy said last year it had achieved a 1,600C turbine inlet temperature, the highest ever, for an electricity-generating engine to be installed in a power station.

Previously disclosed elements of the Japanese engine research include single-crystal turbine rotor blades, stator blades made of ceramic matrix composite (a ceramic reinforced with carbon fiber) and an advanced combustor.

The proposed budget for the fighter engine development is ¥17.2 billion ($218 million), of which ¥4.5 billion would be spent in fiscal 2013. Research would run until fiscal 2017. From fiscal 2015, there would be “testing,” which may mean running the demonstrator.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Problem Problem. Than what is best for us?

Do some serious homework first

I think avionics and arms/ammunitions are not biggest problems or bottleneck. The biggest issue seems to be engines. Only few countries can make these engines, the US, UK and Russia. China just got one working (WS-10) and is on its way to become a full fledged engine maker.

I think we should stay away from US/UK made engines. We are with Russian engines for now. When Chinese engines mature, we can move away from Russian engines gradually and go for all Chinese engines. We should also keep our eyes open towards Korean and Japanese aerospace industries, just like other Asian countries such as Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia and Philippines, all of whom have either bought Korean fighter planes, invested in KAI projects or are thinking about doing so.

Developing avionics is not that hard. In fact, it is the easiest part of aircraft design. It's just that Bangladesh does not currently engage in the field of developing its own avionics.

And yes, engines are the hardest part. And very few nations in this world have truly mastered the art of designing and manufacturing them. China is still working on it.

And munitions? Depends. Good BVR air-to-air missiles are very hard to design and develop. And very expensive if you buy from Western nations.

Japan does not export any weapons by the way.