In a first in India, 40,000 troops launch mammoth anti-Naxal operation

[janon]

Trust me even for a test OP 40000 for 4 states in not enough. I can speak for Maharashtra if 40000 men cover 100 sq km in 4 days in those forests it would be a Herculean achievement.

I am not saying to do it separately in per state. I am saying put 40000 in every state and give them time of one month to meet at rally point off course I would have loved to see IAF in this OP as bolt from sky than just a eye in the sky


Difference is thinking in GOI & GOSL.
They term them as terrorist and we call them off stream ideologists.

Well, they are a little more than just 'eye in the sky' this time, they are using their choppers for troop transport. But aerial firepower will definitely not be used, even the IAF has been against using its firepower inside India, not to mention the civilian leadership. By and large, I think that is a sensible policy.

I wonder why the NSG can't be used for precision strikes against their camps or leaders. Instead of so many agencies trying to work together, simply make it CRPF and state police forces combing the area, and the COBRAs and SAG doing heliborne ops and surgical strikes against the most fortified positions. After all, the black cats were formed so that the army would not have to be used inside India. We have the benefit that the SAG is composed of battle hardened armymen, some with jungle warfare expertise, and yet they function under the home ministry. Sounds ideal to take on naxals.

 

[Sergi]

well if there is political will...these guys can be wiped out in not more than 48 hours....we have that capability....but we hesitate due to vote bank politics, international response, collateral damage and many other factors....

48 hr. you got be kidding me. Don't underestimate those terrorists. If you think they are that easy ..... Concrete bunkers with MG nests isn't something go down in hours if you have manpower and terrain advantage on your side. Attackers need more ratio

 

[janon]

well if there is political will...these guys can be wiped out in not more than 48 hours....we have that capability....but we hesitate due to vote bank politics, international response, collateral damage and many other factors....

That's not true, mate. It is comforting to blame everything on lack of political will - sometimes you have to admit the fact that there are real, operational difficulties as well. Like it or not, these maoists are highly trained, highly armed and highly motivated. And besides, they do not fight conventionally and don't have any frontlines or static positions. It is difficult to even know who is a naxal and who isn't. They live among the people in plain clothes, and for an attack, they group together and do a hit and run. They pick the time and place of the fight.

So eliminating them is not as easy as you think. I'm not saying it can't be done - it can. But it requires some fine counter insurgency from our police forces. Let's not just blame politicians.

 

[Sergi]

Well, they are a little more than just 'eye in the sky' this time, they are using their choppers for troop transport. But aerial firepower will definitely not be used, even the IAF has been against using its firepower inside India, not to mention the civilian leadership. By and large, I think that is a sensible policy.

with all due respect aerial fire power would reduce ground causalities and time of OP
Transport in nothing new.

If I remember correctly IAF deploy its assets in last elections after it got permission to defend against any attack by any means.

I wonder why the NSG can't be used for precision strikes against their camps or leaders. Instead of so many agencies trying to work together, simply make it CRPF and state police forces combing the area, and the COBRAs and SAG doing heliborne ops and surgical strikes against the most fortified positions. After all, the black cats were formed so that the army would not have to be used inside India. We have the benefit that the SAG is composed of battle hardened armymen, some with jungle warfare expertise, and yet they function under the home ministry. Sounds ideal to take on naxals.

Number game. Any strike team would be out numbered in hostile terrain and would not return unless there is fire support from above.

I think you are not aware of the type of terrain. Its simply can't be done without huge number.
AFAIK CRPF along with SRPF will do the job while police will be supplementing the cause.

 

[Indo-guy]

Naxalism is like a cancer ...the revolt of our own cells against ourselves due to our own bad habits, bad genes , bad circumstances ...and what not

the surgical excision can cure cancer if it is a localised disease ...

Naxalism has already spread throught out large part of India ...while such surgical strikes may be part of the solution....it is not likely to curb problem in isolation ...

a long drawn disease as this requires multipronged approach ....


a operation as this may not cure our long standing malady


unfortunately 'something ' is better than 'nothing ' ....

 

[janon]

with all due respect aerial fire power would reduce ground causalities and time of OP
Transport in nothing new.

If I remember correctly IAF deploy its assets in last elections after it got permission to defend against any attack by any means.

Yes I know it might reduce casualties, I was saying that it's not going to happen, since everybody is dead set against using airpower. Also, the IAF's rule of engagement is that they cannot fire unless fired upon, ie in self defence. And that too with guns/cannons, not with bombs or rockets or any other explosives. So whether we like it or not, the fight will have to be on the ground only, between ground combatants.

 

[Ayush]

Best of luck to them.

 

[Sergi]

Yes I know it might reduce casualties, I was saying that it's not going to happen, since everybody is dead set against using airpower. Also, the IAF's rule of engagement is that they cannot fire unless fired upon, ie in self defence. And that too with guns/cannons, not with bombs or rockets or any other explosives. So whether we like it or not, the fight will have to be on the ground only, between ground combatants.

And thats bad.

 

[janon]

Number game. Any strike team would be out numbered in hostile terrain and would not return unless there is fire support from above.

I think you are not aware of the type of terrain. Its simply can't be done without huge number.
AFAIK CRPF along with SRPF will do the job while police will be supplementing the cause.

I know the need for numbers, which is why I said the CRPF is needed to comb the area. My gripe is that there are too many agencies fighting the same fight, which will inevitably result in incompatible intel sharing, command and control, tactics, logistics etc. What is the need for the BSF and SSB, what can they do that the CRPF cannot? As for numbers, the CRPF is almost as big as the Indian army, there is no shortage of numbers in that one organization.

So pump in twice as many CRPF personnel if needed, keep it simple. And if commando operations are needed that are beyond the ability of the CRPF, that is what they have COBRAs for, or even the NSG, who can bring military experience into it. I was advocating the use of the NSG for special strikes or raids, not for the overall operation. The BSF and SSB should stick to guarding the borders, which is what they have been raised and trained for.

 

[KRAIT]

40000 for 4 days is not simply enough.
Make it per state for 1 month and we will be done with the problem for years.
If I am remembering correctly this thing was suggested back in 2007

Sudden action has its own benefits as our action will be well planned, coordinated and looking at the scale, this will give huge jolt to maoists' structure.

 

[Sergi]

I know the need for numbers, which is why I said the CRPF is needed to comb the area. My gripe is that there are too many agencies fighting the same fight, which will inevitably result in incompatible intel sharing, command and control, tactics, logistics etc. What is the need for the BSF and SSB, what can they do that the CRPF cannot? As for numbers, the CRPF is almost as big as the Indian army, there is no shortage of numbers in that one organization.

So pump in twice as many CRPF personnel if needed, keep it simple. And if commando operations are needed that are beyond the ability of the CRPF, that is what they have COBRAs for, or even the NSG, who can bring military experience into it. I was advocating the use of the NSG for special strikes or raids, not for the overall operation. The BSF and SSB should stick to guarding the borders, which is what they have been raised and trained for.

- CRPF will be heading and coordinating the OP which is they are already doing in every state. This time they are trying to do it in all states at same time.

- Can you tell me the availably of CRPF !!! I can asure you it wont be above 2 lack. Those guies are tied up in alot of things. Even all COBRA's cant be deployed.

- Commando operations are not possible in that area. Element of surprise is non-existing. Naxal ground network in the core is very strong. Non civilian dare to defy them. Its not something like behind enemy lines where you are take everything to be hostile but actually it is . Whatever team that land on the ground for "trophy hit" will be surrounded by 2000/3000 well armed Naxals. And that isn't a pleasant situation.

I was in some infected places in Maharashtra. If I get time I will upload the photos of the area.

 

[KRAIT]

48 hr. you got be kidding me. Don't underestimate those terrorists. If you think they are that easy ..... Concrete bunkers with MG nests isn't something go down in hours if you have manpower and terrain advantage on your side. Attackers need more ratio

CRPF planners are much more knowledgeable than you and me. This short burst attack gives maximum terrorist casualties and less collateral damage.

The planners have studied the terrain and maoists' operations for years just like the maoists have done. Advantage we have is our superior strength and weapons with coordinated attack.

Pack of wolves attack is what they are following. Positioning and high intensity short period offensive.

Another objective is to move dispersed maoists to a small region.

You can also see it as Normandy landing.

 

[Sergi]

Sudden action has its own benefits as our action will be well planned, coordinated and looking at the scale, this will give huge jolt to maoists' structure.

Scale !!!!!
Sir ji thats what I am talking. Not enough. 40000 troops are not enough to scan the area of Dadchiroli in MH. Let along the other states. Enough pass for the Naxals to dodge the party

 

[Star Wars]

Scale !!!!!
Sir ji thats what I am talking. Not enough. 40000 troops are not enough to scan the area of Dadchiroli in MH. Let along the other states. Enough pass for the Naxals to dodge the party

we don't even know what they are planning and what the objectives are, its meaningless to speculate weather numbers are sufficient or not

 

[janon]

- CRPF will be heading and coordinating the OP which is they are already doing in every state. This time they are trying to do it in all states at same time.

- Can you tell me the availably of CRPF !!! I can asure you it wont be above 2 lack. Those guies are tied up in alot of things. Even all COBRA's cant be deployed.

- Commando operations are not possible in that area. Element of surprise is non-existing. Naxal ground network in the core is very strong. Non civilian dare to defy them. Its not something like behind enemy lines where you are take everything to be hostile but actually it is . Whatever team that land on the ground for "trophy hit" will be surrounded by 2000/3000 well armed Naxals. And that isn't a pleasant situation.

I was in some infected places in Maharashtra. If I get time I will upload the photos of the area.

And isn't that more than enough, at least for this op? In this op, only 40,000 troops are being used - so why bring in the BSF and SSB, instead of following the KISS principle? Obviously there is no shortage of numbers, for this particular operation which, BTW, is the largest we have ever undertaken.