Imran reaches Buner, meets operation affectees

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

KnightRyder:

Your apologetics for these barbaric militants are best answered with this editorial from The News.

Swat's story​

Thursday, May 07, 2009
As we had predicted, the peace accord in Swat is over. The Taliban's claims that the government had violated the peace deal and Sufi Muhammad Khan's meaningless comments about not having being consulted over the setting up of the Darul Qaza are obviously nothing more than gibberish. The truth is the Taliban had never laid down their arms, had made sure they never relinquished control of Mingora and, as some intelligence reports suggest, may never have intended to accept the 'accord' brokered by Sufi anyway. It is obvious the militants do not fall under the aging TNSM leader's control any longer. And even if we assume his intentions were good, those of the fighters crazed by power and a lust for blood were not. So, Swat's sad story continues. Once more we have mass displacement as desperate people flee homes. In Mingora the fight is already on, with militants attempting to take over key government offices and clashing with security personnel. There have also been reports of similar fighting elsewhere, and its ferocity will now almost certainly increase.

Last time round, before the ill-fate peace agreement was reached in February this year, we saw security forces suffer successive defeats across the Valley. Many asked how it was possible for a few hundred militants to triumph over an army that rivals that of the US in terms of size. Some stated it was this factor that had forced a panic-stricken ANP government to open talks with Sufi Muhammad Khan. There are indications now that the situation has changed. The realities are no longer the same. The mysterious forces that control events from behind the scenes in Pakistan seem to have been in motion once more. Therefore we can expect, this time round, a more decisive outcome to the battle in Swat. There is no doubt the militants there have to be overcome and eradicated. They have demonstrated their deceit and their lack of trustworthiness. Any doubts that may have existed as to this have now been dispelled. Perhaps then the last few weeks did achieve something after all – unveiling the real face of the Taliban. Their threats to journalists, to politicians, to others who dare defy them, prove they aim only to rule by force, to silence dissent and to establish the barbaric rule of the sword.

The government and the military must now work together to re-gain control over these areas and to ensure that those guilty of crime are not allowed to go scot free. The weeks given to the militants have allowed them time to regroup and re-assemble their forces. They can then be expected to put up a tough battle – but this time it must be one fought to the bitter end, so the militants can be defeated and the people of Swat allowed to return to homes and villages with the confidence that they will not again be forced to flee.

Swat's story

-----------

And yes, Imran Khan is intellectually shallow - recall the quote about the 'definition of insanity' - 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'.

I was in favor of the NAR deal because it was different - the GoP was in fact allowing for a 'legitimate demand', and implementing a series of regulations that had been under discussion for years.

In response the militias were to disband and the Taliban were to not use force again. They did none of that. They continued to attack Military convoy's, they continued to use force and the threat of force to make people comply with their medieval interpretation of Islam and they in fact advanced into Buner and Dir.

They violated the peace deal, despite the fact that the GoP implemented NAR, they have left the GoP no option but to use force to restore the writ of the government.

I for one have no interest in seeing my sister or mother whipped in a public square by a bunch of 'big, brave men' (Aisi mardangi Khusron kay bazaar may behter bikay gi ). Do you?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

he is definately worng in supporting the taliban deal this time around, there should be no peace agreement at all with this merciless people. but on the other note Allah has given him respect, by letting him win the worldcup, no one else could`t do it. he is a leader and will remain so.

'Allah giveth respect and Allah also taketh away' - the man did have my respect, until he became a taliban sympathizer.

He is fit to run his charities - he is not fit to be a leader. Not if he is unable to realize what a critical threat these barbarians pose to the Pakistani state, and in fact want's the state to submit to them.

 

[Always Neutral]

They have never layed down their weapons and history is evident. Taking weapons away from pushtun is synonymous to taking away his penis. Anyone who understands the pashtun culture would agree.

Solution? Very simple:

All political parties in Pakistan need to organize a long march against US policies similar to the long march of the lawyers movement. The public needs to pressure govn't to back away from America's nefarious war imposed on the Pashtuns and islamic militants in Afghanistan. No more violation of its soverignity through drone or any sort of attacks on Pak territory.

Once you're out of the US war, these or any militants or terrorist groups in Pak would be left with no reason to fight our Army and commit attrocities against civilians.

I love it. You sit comfortably in Canada and want Pakistan to allow Taliban to take over Pakistan. What happens if the next Sept 9/11 happens with origins from Pakistan territory ? The PA will be bombed back to the stone age but ofcourse u will be safe and sound in Canada !

What is this crap that Pushtoons have gun culture and cannot be dis-armed as if they are some special god sent tribe ? The reason they carry guns is because they are uneducated and neglected and that is due to GOP's poor policies. Please see the press conference of Zardari and Karzai in US last night.

Regards


Ps :Its your war and world is footing the bill, be grateful.

 

[Bane Blade]

They have never layed down their weapons and history is evident. Taking weapons away from pushtun is synonymous to taking away his penis. Anyone who understands the pashtun culture would agree.

Yes but one would question why they had to pick them up in the first place only when that nature is truly understood can we negotiate peace with them.

Solution? Very simple:

All political parties in Pakistan need to organize a long march against US policies similar to the long march of the lawyers movement. The public needs to pressure govn't to back away from America's nefarious war imposed on the Pashtuns and islamic militants in Afghanistan. No more violation of its soverignity through drone or any sort of attacks on Pak territory.

Which would make us the terrorists as well Paksitan is more a country and not an outfit we need to be moderators we could have been neutral in the start but now we need to get rid of both the terrorists as well as the US mentality of fighting the terrorists.

Once you're out of the US war, these or any militants or terrorist groups in Pak would be left with no reason to fight our Army and commit attrocities against civilians.

In the past the terrorists have found allegation to place upon the government and they will pick up that banter again about the government being unIslamic if they feel they are better they should stand in the elections that is the nature they need to be introduced to. We need to beat them on their own platform by quoting verses of the Quran on peace explaining how Islam was spread with spreading an example not by total domination and war.

 

[Always Neutral]

'Allah giveth respect and Allah also taketh away' - the man did have my respect, until he became a taliban sympathizer.

He is fit to run his charities - he is not fit to be a leader. Not if he is unable to realize what a critical threat these barbarians pose to the Pakistani state, and in fact want's the state to submit to them.

I agree. A couple of years ago he probably would have been flogged by these same very men for marrying Jemmima.

Regards

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ps :Its your war

Like the title change?

We thought it made the forum's stance on the war quite clear.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Once you're out of the US war, these or any militants or terrorist groups in Pak would be left with no reason to fight our Army and commit attrocities against civilians.

Did you miss the part where Sufi Mohammed categorically stated that democracy was 'un-Islamic', our judicial system was 'un-Islamic', our media was 'un-Islamic', education for women was 'un-Islamic'.

The hypocrisy on the last point was brought out in this post by saadahmed very well:

So i watched Sufi interview and the geo reporter caught Crazy Sufi with his own argument-Here's the exact transcript
Reporter: Do you believe women should get education
Reporter: Do you believe women should get education
Sufi: No they shouldn't .... bla bla bla
Reporter: Ok. now in case a women is very sick (on a dying bed), do you think she should get treatment from a male doctor if no female doctor is available?
Sufi: No it's not allowed. Only a lady doctor can treat another women?
Reporter: Sufi sb. If you won't allow girls being educated, how would they become lady doctors?

And all this from a man considered to be 'moderate' relative to the Taliban.

These barbarians will never stop, they made that clear with their actions after the NAR was implemented.

 

[KnightRyder]

KnightRyder:

Your apologetics for these barbaric militants are best answered with this editorial from The News.

Swat's story​

Thursday, May 07, 2009
As we had predicted, the peace accord in Swat is over. The Taliban's claims that the government had violated the peace deal and Sufi Muhammad Khan's meaningless comments about not having being consulted over the setting up of the Darul Qaza are obviously nothing more than gibberish. The truth is the Taliban had never laid down their arms, had made sure they never relinquished control of Mingora and, as some intelligence reports suggest, may never have intended to accept the 'accord' brokered by Sufi anyway. It is obvious the militants do not fall under the aging TNSM leader's control any longer. And even if we assume his intentions were good, those of the fighters crazed by power and a lust for blood were not. So, Swat's sad story continues. Once more we have mass displacement as desperate people flee homes. In Mingora the fight is already on, with militants attempting to take over key government offices and clashing with security personnel. There have also been reports of similar fighting elsewhere, and its ferocity will now almost certainly increase.

Last time round, before the ill-fate peace agreement was reached in February this year, we saw security forces suffer successive defeats across the Valley. Many asked how it was possible for a few hundred militants to triumph over an army that rivals that of the US in terms of size. Some stated it was this factor that had forced a panic-stricken ANP government to open talks with Sufi Muhammad Khan. There are indications now that the situation has changed. The realities are no longer the same. The mysterious forces that control events from behind the scenes in Pakistan seem to have been in motion once more. Therefore we can expect, this time round, a more decisive outcome to the battle in Swat. There is no doubt the militants there have to be overcome and eradicated. They have demonstrated their deceit and their lack of trustworthiness. Any doubts that may have existed as to this have now been dispelled. Perhaps then the last few weeks did achieve something after all – unveiling the real face of the Taliban. Their threats to journalists, to politicians, to others who dare defy them, prove they aim only to rule by force, to silence dissent and to establish the barbaric rule of the sword.

The government and the military must now work together to re-gain control over these areas and to ensure that those guilty of crime are not allowed to go scot free. The weeks given to the militants have allowed them time to regroup and re-assemble their forces. They can then be expected to put up a tough battle – but this time it must be one fought to the bitter end, so the militants can be defeated and the people of Swat allowed to return to homes and villages with the confidence that they will not again be forced to flee.

Swat's story

-----------

And yes, Imran Khan is intellectually shallow - recall the quote about the 'definition of insanity' - 'doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results'.

I was in favor of the NAR deal because it was different - the GoP was in fact allowing for a 'legitimate demand', and implementing a series of regulations that had been under discussion for years.

In response the militias were to disband and the Taliban were to not use force again. They did none of that. They continued to attack Military convoy's, they continued to use force and the threat of force to make people comply with their medieval interpretation of Islam and they in fact advanced into Buner and Dir.

They violated the peace deal, despite the fact that the GoP implemented NAR, they have left the GoP no option but to use force to restore the writ of the government.

I for one have no interest in seeing my sister or mother whipped in a public square by a bunch of 'big, brave men' (Aisi mardangi Khusron kay bazaar may behter bikay gi ). Do you?

I can say you're an apologist for American terrorists committing murder through drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But bro, this name calling wont help either of us...

This deal is bound to be a failure so long as US drone attacks continue in the Tribal areas and our military keeps complying with US in murdering its own neighbours and citizens while getting dollars for it.

It's all divide and rule and i dont know why some of you cant see it.

You can mark my words down. Yes, some of these TTP folks are fitna mongerers no doubt. But they'll will keep fighting the PA and keep advancing using terrorist and whatever petty means and dirty tricks they can pull because their homes are being destroyed by US drones in which we must hold ourselves responsible for and they believe they have a just cause and keep recruiting people from the displaced and poor illiterate population and this war will continue so long as we're an ally of US in this catastrophy...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This deal is bound to be a failure so long as US drone attacks continue in the Tribal areas and our military keeps complying with US in murdering its own neighbours and citizens while getting dollars for it.

All pathetic excuses for the militants - if the drone strikes were the issue (which are occurring primarily in North Waziristan), then why did Sufi not ask for that as a condition in his peace deal?

None of what you said was part of the deal, not one thing. The militants and Sufi have made their intentions about democracy and our way of life clear. We have to go back into the stone age to satisfy them - maybe that won't be enough either. Next they'll be demanding we devolve into apes.

 

[ajpirzada]

They have never layed down their weapons and history is evident. Taking weapons away from pushtun is synonymous to taking away his penis. Anyone who understands the pashtun culture would agree.

Solution? Very simple:

All political parties in Pakistan need to organize a long march against US policies similar to the long march of the lawyers movement. The public needs to pressure govn't to back away from America's nefarious war imposed on the Pashtuns and islamic militants in Afghanistan. No more violation of its soverignity through drone or any sort of attacks on Pak territory.

Once you're out of the US war, these or any militants or terrorist groups in Pak would be left with no reason to fight our Army and commit attrocities against civilians.

i know about the gun culture and i dont mind it either. one gun for one man. or let me be more generous and say 4 guns for one man. but wat about rocket launchers, mines, grenades, machine guns etc etc????? are they also part of pashtun culture??? cuttin someone's head off in public or beating someones sister..is that also pashtun culture?? no its not. dont confuse talibans with pashtuns.
and dont call it a war against pashtun. pashtuns are the main target of these a$$holes. u comfortably said that army commits attrocities against civillians while u fail to see wat talibans are doing??? go to swat and find out and ya please go alone and not with ur family. advice: take some money with u or else they ll chop ur head off. dont tell them u live in canada or else they might shoot u in ur head for working in a kafir country.
u r talkin about drones. ok agreed. but i dont remember if there ever was any drone attack in swat. or were swat ppl involved in these drone attacks that these talibans decided to target them???
if it was in my control i would fit these ba$tards in our tanks and give a 21 tank solute to my pashtun borthers who died coz of them

 

[All-Green]

I can say you're an apologist for American terrorists committing murder through drone attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan. But bro, this name calling wont help either of us...

This deal is bound to be a failure so long as US drone attacks continue in the Tribal areas and our military keeps complying with US in murdering its own neighbours and citizens while getting dollars for it.

It's all divide and rule and i dont know why some of you cant see it.

You can mark my words down. Yes, some of these TTP folks are fitna mongerers no doubt. But they'll will keep fighting the PA and keep advancing using terrorist and whatever petty means and dirty tricks they can pull because their homes are being destroyed by US drones in which we must hold ourselves responsible for and they believe they have a just cause and keep recruiting people from the displaced and poor illiterate population and this war will continue so long as we're an ally of US in this catastrophy...

Some of these TTP folks?
I must say that i am very disappointed...
How many thousands have been killed by suicide attacks?
Do you see all the Pakistanis conducting suicide attacks on TTP?

It is not only anger which leads to suicide attacks...it is a whole network of organized terrorists infesting these areas which leads to such carnage...
TTP is now even leaving Al Qaeda far behind in destroying all that is Islam and all that is Pakistan.

Sorry to burst your bubble but these suicide bombers are not actually family members of those who have perished in the drone attacks...such cells and training centers were already being handled by the TTP...you think it is that simple a reaction?
no person on earth can on his own carry out a suicide attack on innocents who are in no way responsible for the death of his family...that is so much against human nature....and not possible for an average person to do on his own alone

The ones carrying out the suicide attack are indoctrinated and trained by the rascals of TTP and other such organizations...they have bloody numbers assigned to them and are given guarantees of rewards in the afterlife and riches for their families....
Have we forgotten the notorious Hashaasheen of the Ismaili sect in the crusades era who were the best assassins in the world...they were brainwashed, indoctrinated and promised paradise, to the effect that most of them would take on assignments which guaranteed their deaths as well!

Here is the summary of one intercept in the northern areas i was told about by a very trustworthy friend...

Suicide Bomber (Alias Abu Hamza): Sir, i wanted to know my number on the list since i want to attend my sisters wedding in 2 days if possible.
Handler: Abu Hamza, your request to attend your sisters wedding is granted...you are no 10 on the list.
Abu Hamza: thank you sir, i will not let you down!
Handler: Abu Hamza, glory to you and your family, we shall take good care of them.

There are many things which shall always be disputed but make no mistake, these modern terrorists think nothing of using human shields...they ensure that they hide in areas where there is always collateral so that they can save their hides...
In Lal masjid these so called warriors were using children and women and still their supporters cry about the cruelty...what cruelty?
You rebel against the state with weapons in hand and despite being given months you do not surrender...i say the government was actually too soft on these rebels...open the history books and see what all the greatest and best of Muslim rulers did to rebels!!!

Our ignorance in associating the actions of TTP with a just cause will be our greatest mistake!

I am utterly disgusted with Imran Khan (who is one of my favorite persons), to suggest talks with SWAT Taliban despite their atrocities and their cold blooded mass murders is absolutely criminal...he should know better by now...

 

[KnightRyder]

All pathetic excuses for the militants - if the drone strikes were the issue (which are occurring primarily in North Waziristan), then why did Sufi not ask for that as a condition in his peace deal?

None of what you said was part of the deal, not one thing. The militants and Sufi have made their intentions about democracy and our way of life clear. We have to go back into the stone age to satisfy them - maybe that won't be enough either. Next they'll be demanding we devolve into apes.

You're wrong. Time and time again.

Is Pakistan a democracy right now? If so, how can you justify Zardari - probably one of the biggest criminals in the history of Pakistan? A Pakistan that is run by either western-backed tyrannical dictatorship or simply bought out cheap criminal politicians.

Is this the sort of democracy and way of life you propose for Pakistan?

If no, then how long do you think Pak should continue the way its going?

The sort of CIA designed democracy that you propose was even rejected by founders of our nation. Iqbal, Jinnah, Mohammad Ali Johar, and i dont think I have to explain any further.

 

[Skeptic]

You're wrong. Time and time again.

Is Pakistan a democracy right now? If so, how can you justify Zardari - probably one of the biggest criminals in the history of Pakistan? A Pakistan that is run by either western-backed tyrannical dictatorship or simply bought out cheap criminal politicians.

Is this the sort of democracy and way of life you propose for Pakistan?

If no, then how long do you think Pak should continue the way its going?

The sort of CIA designed democracy that you propose was even rejected by founders of our nation. Iqbal, Jinnah, Mohammad Ali Johar, and i dont think I have to explain any further.

I think these remarks would have been applauded and appreciated by all the members here if they were posted a few months earlier. The problem is that GoP and PA makes a sudden turn in their policies and expects the entire population to follow its trend.

Same was the cause when the famous U turn on Taliban support was announce. In Just a weeks time whatever Taliban did turned from "Halal" to "Haram". Is a common man who has started sympathizing with Taliban suddenly supposed to eradicate all those emotions as the National Policies have changed overnight?

Then again all the stories going around the internet a few weeks back were highlighting the evils of Drone attack. I went through several posts on this forum and again, there are volumes of suggestions by esteemed members for US to stop these attacks and rebel movements will cease. Are we not witnessing another U turn? Suddenly the PA engages TTP and co. and everyone is supposed to understand.

While the peace deal was being negotiated, it was the best thing to happen for most Pakistanis, and when it backfired, it became just the
tool to justify attacks by PA on TTP and maneuvering public opinion. Were those dreaded Suicide Bombings and atrocities not reason enough in themselves?

Unless questions are not raised on the rationale, reasoning and timing of the decisions made by GoP / PA, Pakistan will have a prevalent state of confusion.

 

[Rumail]

imo u guys gotta give some time to the political parties of Pakistan!
wen was it the last time a democratic elected government completed its term!
Pakistan has just got on the track of democracy, it isn' t easy to rule a country, u gotta give our current government time to solve out the problems.

Imran Khan was the best at cricket pitch
he has presented Pakistan with quiet a number of institutions
and so i do respect him!
but when it comes to politics, it seems he failed there, specially when he supported the Taliban...
but who knows, he might prove to be a gr8 leader in later times.

Maybe we gotta finish off these Talibans once and for all
in our PM' s address to the nation, he did talk about a military operation, that might be the beginning...
What else major problem do Pakistan face atm, this might bring peace to our region.

 

[PAFAce]

Oh come on people! wanting peace is not sympathising with the Taleban! It's not all black-and-white. Why are some of us Pakistanis so damn simple-minded?

Imran Khan is against innocents dying. How the heck does that make him shallow? I completely support the Army's recent operations, but I also respect Imran Khan's desire for peace. If you don't want peace, there is something wrong with you, not him.

And please, leave the dirt throwing to the MQM. Calling someone a "playboy" or "lazy cricketer" is pretty damn cheap. It speaks more about the individual's personality than Imrans. I was amazed to see that some posters that I have great respect for have decided to stoop into the gutter simply to malign Imran Khan. Not very nice, is it?