I'm disenchanted with India: Zardari

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

41 deleted posts later ....

Better late than never Mr. President.

The Indians obviously see it otherwise, but 'disenchantment and disappointment' at the Indian response to Pakistan and its hostility towards Pakistan, domestically and at the international level, is a valid, though still gentle, criticism.

Even now India continues to act against Pakistani well being by seeking to cancel the Sino-Pak civilian nuclear deal for power generation, an agreement that has no military connotations whatsoever.

The President is dead on right in stating that which other Pakistanis have been arguing for many years now, India has not displayed maturity in its relationship with Pakistan.

This isn't 'pandering to the anti-India wing of Pakistani politics', it is the plain and simple truth.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India is not being disrespectful about Pakistani courts. Indian complaints are against the prosecution which could not make a case from info given by India.

Please take this discussion on the thread that already exists - India did not provide enough evidence to convict, nor are you in a position to argue whether the Pakistani prosecution built a poor case or not. Just because India provided evidence and HS won the case does not mean that the evidence provided was good enough and the fault was entirely that of the Pakistani prosecutors.

 

[Meengla]

Actually Zardari is echoing what even the 'liberal' segments of Pakistani society are beginning to think: India is a status-quo party and will not concede anything to Pakistan despite a range of friendly overtures starting with Musharraf regime. May be Musharraf was naive in calling the peace process 'irreversible'?

This is not for domestic consumption. You Indian bloggers know that there are hardly anyone in this blog to defend Zardari and that's why you have tried to get away with stuff like 'domestic consumption' or 'Mr. 10%' etc. What Zardari said is quite gentle, as @AM points out above, and cannot earn him much 'points' compared to the anti-India statements made in Pakistan. However, by looking at the statements coming out from Pakistan's foreign minister, foreign secretary and now even Zardari the Pakistani establishment has correctly calculated India is going to keep playing delaying tactics to resolve 'core' issues while continuing to demand concessions from Pakistan.

Also, Indian bloggers may want to take notice of the fact that even though the liberal Pakistani press does not always endorse the various conspiracy theorists involving India in everything, seasoned journalists like Dr. Farrukh Saleem, Irfan Hussain and many others who are liberal and pragmatist--these journalists certainly are not paid-for-by-the-PPP govt--are beginning to look at Indian policies with dismay. Even your own Kuldip Nayar faults India more. This does not augur well for the peace in the Sub-continent. I know, you Indian bloggers are going to play the same old broken record about Hafiz Saeed or whoever but you need to ponder as to why the most liberal political party in Pakistan--the PPP--is starting to change its tune toward India.
And you want to see the alternative? The most likely next govt. will be formed by PMLN which, as late as 1988 elections, was wanting to hoist Pakistan's flag over Delhi's Red Fort!

 

[Contrarian]

41 deleted posts later ....

Better late than never Mr. President.

The Indians obviously see it otherwise, but 'disenchantment and disappointment' at the Indian response to Pakistan and its hostility towards Pakistan, domestically and at the international level, is a valid, though still gentle, criticism.

Hostility towards Pakistan is but natural considering that Pakistan has become the center of global terrorism and India has been bearing the brunt of it.

Even now India continues to act against Pakistani well being by seeking to cancel the Sino-Pak civilian nuclear deal for power generation, an agreement that has no military connotations whatsoever.

What agreements are there to prevent reprocessing, enrichment to weapons grade Pu?

The President is dead on right in stating that which other Pakistanis have been arguing for many years now, India has not displayed maturity in its relationship with Pakistan.

This isn't 'pandering to the anti-India wing of Pakistani politics', it is the plain and simple truth.

India has not displayed maturity, whereas Pakistan has been very mature? By denying outright that Kasab was not Pakistani, by sending sleuths to shut up the village where Kasab lived after the media broke through, by then taking half hearted measures to arrest those responsible?

 

[pak-marine]

indian rant against zardari understood , but pakistani members talking crap about zardari without noticing what he said in what context is insane. Just the word zardari doesnt make every thing bad ... he is our elected president. MOD's took a good step by deleting all posts calling zardari names. He is saying the right thing . Indian response is rather childish

 

[prodevelopment]

I understand where Zardari is coming from. That does not necessarily mean that I agree with his opinion. But I understand how he arrived at that. The problem is that as the Pakistani President, Zardari is not paid to make comments sympathizing with the Indian POV.

We have been down this road many times and every single time, India has burnt it's fingers. So you can understand India being a bit cautious in dealing with Pakistan.

Zardari will just have to bear the burden of his predecessors' actions.

 

[BeyondLoud]

It's so funny because both sides play the blame game which obviously doesn't help anyone!
It baffles me to see how two countries who have shared history and share so much in common, are still arguing and fighting! It's pathetic!Hate is generated towards each other from both sides and I can't help but think that the media is somehow responsible for this. Or maybe people need to start being more "open-minded" anyhow it still comes down to how the people think. The media merely plays on the perceptions held by people of the "other country."

Are bhaia the logic is simple. You dont screw up with us we wont do it with you.. When we accept Pakistan as a nation that means we want its existence not the hostilities. But when your politics thrive on hate India mode what can we do.......

Good for you, your pinching ideas from the air and blatantly throwing it at others!

But isn't it funny, that Badness only and only happens in Pakistan!!!!

Fix the issue of terrorism (Mr. Zardari) or there are more badness issues in future where answers will not be so simple!!!

That almost sounded like a threat!

Though Zardari is "disenchanted" I don't think he has magical powers to bring about change, the issue of "terrorism" will take time to be solved. Afterall change does take time!

 

[pak-marine]

I understand where Zardari is coming from. That does not necessarily mean that I agree with his opinion. But I understand how he arrived at that. The problem is that as the Pakistani President, Zardari is not paid to make comments sympathizing with the Indian POV.

We have been down this road many times and every single time, India has burnt it's fingers. So you can understand India being a bit cautious in dealing with Pakistan.

Zardari will just have to bear the burden of his predecessors' actions.

To an extent Indian cautiosnes is understood , let me also clearify by predecessors you mean democratically elected ones or you confusing it with dictators ??

 

[prodevelopment]

To an extent Indian cautiosnes is understood , let me also clearify by predecessors you mean democratically elected ones or the dictators ??

Well, the general perception here is that democratically elected leaders have never had any semblance of control over the military chiefs. That's a part of the problem.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Mr. Zardari needs to control The Pak army and who them who is the boss, until then he nothing better than a talk show.
If pakistan is a democracy the parliment or the president should control the army and run the country and the Army running the show.

If the real power is with army what's the point in talking to the president or the prime minister as they have no authority.

 

[Jade]

Actually Zardari is echoing what even the 'liberal' segments of Pakistani society are beginning to think: India is a status-quo party and will not concede anything to Pakistan despite a range of friendly overtures starting with Musharraf regime. May be Musharraf was naive in calling the peace process 'irreversible'?

This is not for domestic consumption. You Indian bloggers know that there are hardly anyone in this blog to defend Zardari and that's why you have tried to get away with stuff like 'domestic consumption' or 'Mr. 10%' etc. What Zardari said is quite gentle, as @AM points out above, and cannot earn him much 'points' compared to the anti-India statements made in Pakistan. However, by looking at the statements coming out from Pakistan's foreign minister, foreign secretary and now even Zardari the Pakistani establishment has correctly calculated India is going to keep playing delaying tactics to resolve 'core' issues while continuing to demand concessions from Pakistan.

Also, Indian bloggers may want to take notice of the fact that even though the liberal Pakistani press does not always endorse the various conspiracy theorists involving India in everything, seasoned journalists like Dr. Farrukh Saleem, Irfan Hussain and many others who are liberal and pragmatist--these journalists certainly are not paid-for-by-the-PPP govt--are beginning to look at Indian policies with dismay. Even your own Kuldip Nayar faults India more. This does not augur well for the peace in the Sub-continent. I know, you Indian bloggers are going to play the same old broken record about Hafiz Saeed or whoever but you need to ponder as to why the most liberal political party in Pakistan--the PPP--is starting to change its tune toward India.
And you want to see the alternative? The most likely next govt. will be formed by PMLN which, as late as 1988 elections, was wanting to hoist Pakistan's flag over Delhi's Red Fort!

What should India concede? Kashmir? …then I think we both are guilty of being status-quo parties.

In the last 27 years since I was born, I don’t remember any friendly overtures by Pakistan towards India ….forget about the range. The only thing I remember is hostility.

Anyway…what concessions has India demanded from Pakistan? …If you think prosecuting Hafiz Saeed is a concession…. you are mistaken. His links with Lashkar-e-Taiba are well documented and even United Nations declared Jama'at-ud-Da'wah a terrorist organization. It is due on Pakistan to take tough stance on this issue

 

[pak-marine]

Well, the general perception here is that democratically elected leaders have never had any semblance of control over the military chiefs. That's a part of the problem.

In order to move on one has to take risk , ball is in India's court.

 

[prodevelopment]

In order to move on one has to take risk , ball is in India's court.

I disagree. India is satisfied with the status quo. And increase in cross-border infiltration/another mumbai like event would certainly put more pressure on Pakistan. Ball is definitely in Pakistan's court now.

I repeat, you cannot ask for peace talks by threat. Peace talks can only happen when there is a semblance of mutual trust. And trust builds over time.

We all have to be patient and hope.

 

[jeypore]

Eh, I forgot to quote that part either.
Yes, agree, government plays a huge role, example is like from this article.

True, but in my opinion, media play a more greater role. For example, after the 26/11 bombings, I remembered clearly a video showing stimulated surgical strikes in Pakistan.

Same goes for Pakistan, media should not publicize Zaid Hamid too much either, as sometimes, he spread too much conspiracy theories, example "Amar Singh", without subsequent prove.

Furthemore, I believe, we can always choose our leader as both of our countries are democratic, but to change the media's stereotype, it is hard, and media is the one that usually exaggerate or over-hype very small issues, like "statements".

One example, like "India's cold war doctrine" overhyped by Pakistan and " Pakistan's modification of USA missiles, overyhped by India. If we can calm down those media, and probably create more "Aman Ki Asha", or probably portay Pakistan in a good light in the "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa" series, then I would see no problem in peace prevailing between both countries

That is where we disagree greatly, Media, I considered as the best asset in this whole equation. Let me explain further, Do you think that Gov't is perfect or everything they are doing is perfect, likewise same applies for the media, ofcourse. But the big difference is Media, it is freedom, and it permeates thru holes in any large bureaucracy.

As a majority populace that is all one can hope for, when someone, especially gov't stealling your money thru taxes. And Mark my word on this, The only agency that keeps these poticians on there feet are these stupid media. So, I would think otherwise!!!!

Also, to take anything in perspective, interms of truth or not, it is always up to you to decipher it..

 

[jeypore]

This is not for domestic consumption. You Indian bloggers know that there are hardly anyone in this blog to defend Zardari and that's why you have tried to get away with stuff like 'domestic consumption' or 'Mr. 10%' etc. What Zardari said is quite gentle,

Yes, it really is a domestic consumption afterall isn't it!!! But when it is of real discussion, atleat towards India, there is change of heart and dialogues, isn't it!!!

Politicians are same across the board, but Zardari has really proven to be a great puppit of your military power, which I would suggest would consult before talking...

And afterall that ranting from me, We Indian do not care if he is 10% or gentle, but what we care is what he say is backed up by Pakistan, which clearly is not true, because there has been numerous example of him turning back, either based on his own advisors or Your own Military personals. This begs a question, not only from Indian side but all American side, Who are we dealing with, a Public hired personal or military dictatorship that is running the country?

Gentle truely, but acceptable hardly because there are other factors in your country...