Ilya Kramnik Russian military expert call Pakistan potential buyer of SU35

[ACE OF THE AIR]

i dont think paf will get the su35 any time soon, its budget is now being prioritised for the navy

If you read my earlier posts on this thread you would realize that I have been saying this all along that these aircraft are not a requirement of PAF but PN. PN would have both JF-17 and SU-35's. Still the deal is in its early stages. Other aircraft have also been considered that include F-18 / J-15/16.

It seems from the other aircraft that have been looked at the Su-35 would be the winner as that is the latest.

 

[Blue Marlin]

WS-13 is for JF17 and J31

sorry your right, my bad

 

[ZooZoo]

the su-35 is a good jet but the new eurofighter typhoon with an enhanced airframe and tv will have the su-35 . its unfortunate that neither india or Pakistan can afford it, and the saudis wont bite at it either.(but can afford it)

Totally agree with you, Eurofighter Typhoon is formidable platform, Its one of best Superiority fighter with good G2A capability..

If you are talking about Rafael winning over EFT in indian deal then let me put few points.

1. When Pakistan Army betrayed world and started kargil war, Our IAF Mirage was finding challenge from F16. So we needed 2 fighter, Mirage to bomb Terrorist (and Pakistani Army) and MiG29 to keep F16 away.

2. We needed a better bomber and good A2A capability. Only F18SH and Rafael fit there.

If any time India look for better A2A , EFT will be first choice...EFT was not rejected because its bad, rather it didn't fit our need. And yes India can afford it..

for change if u are english watch it,,

If u are Indian/Paksitani then too watch it..

 

[Blue Marlin]

Totally agree with you, Eurofighter Typhoon is formidable platform, Its one of best Superiority fighter with good G2A capability..

If you are talking about Rafael winning over EFT in indian deal then let me put few points.

1. When Pakistan Army betrayed world and started kargil war, Our IAF Mirage was finding challenge from F16. So we needed 2 fighter, Mirage to bomb Terrorist (and Pakistani Army) and MiG29 to keep F16 away.

2. We needed a better bomber and good A2A capability. Only F18SH and Rafael fit there.

If any time India look for better A2A , EFT will be first choice...EFT was not rejected because its bad, rather it didn't fit our need. And yes India can afford it..

for change if u are english watch it,,

If u are Indian/Paksitani then too watch it..

i dont want to talk about the kargil conflict as will annoy both indians and Pakistanis. it takes two people to fight not one. so no comment

if you read previous post on pdf somewhere(which i doubt you can find) it was the rafales atg capability that was the deciding factor that won the competition. the mirage is a good airframe good for its bombing role as it can carry 9mk-82 bombs. the mig 29 is a good jet but it range makes it more of a defensive jet. like paroling around important areas such as new-Delhi as it near an air base. the mki is more of a remote patrol aircraft also during the kargil conflict the mirage was the only jet that participated

the eft that i am talking about is £125+ million and thats about $195+ million each thats very expensive and that comes will all of the bells and whistles, it will beat any jet out there including the su35 and is on par with the f22 the only thing the f22 has got is stealth thats the only difference. even the saudis will find that a stretch on their budget,

 

[Donatello]

What is more interesting to note is that there is really something about the Su-35BM that has people scrambling for it.
Previous Sukhoi variants were not so "attractive" as this one is.

Is it the fact that the procurement cost and associate weapons library, is much cheaper in one go, compared with say, the 100 million USD+ medium weight Eurofighters/Rafale?
And since the American F-15s are out of question for most, Russian ones are more easily negotiable?

 

[Shabi1]

Is it the fact that the procurement cost and associate weapons library, is much cheaper in one go, compared with say, the 100 million USD+ medium weight Eurofighters/Rafale?
And since the American F-15s are out of question for most, Russian ones are more easily negotiable?

Its because the previous Russian jets did not match western alternatives in term of maintenance. The Su-35 has more than twice the airframe and engine life compared to the SU-30 because of its titanium construction plus tons of power for electronics and a massive radar. It may look similar to the SU-30 but Russians have internally made a complete new jet.

Ease of maintenance reduces overall cost of a platform by a huge factor and is an important factor in PAF aircraft analysis.

Copied from

Su-30MKI and the threat from the Su-35S - MILAVIA Forum

Differences:
Su-30MKI-
Maximum internal fuel - 9,640kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling) - 3000kms
Max ceiling - 17.3km
Max Speed - Mach 1.9
Canards - Yes
Crew - 2
Max Afterburner Thrust - 12500kgf, Emergency Thrust - 12800kgf
External Fuel Tanks - No
Composites - Not in significant quantity.
Empty Weight - unknown. Estimated to be around 18400kgs.
Airframe life - 3,000hrs or 15 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - No
RCS - unofficial estimate 11.5m2
Airbrake - Yes
Supercruise- No


Su-35S-
Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes

Radar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

 

[CHI RULES]

Show me the money....

I recall Pakistani keybord warrior abusing sukhoi (citing huge size , huge RCS etc). I recall some one brought some stupid Amrican vedio abusing Sukhoi...

How soon one turn color??? Now human will compete with chameleon ...

I think Su35 and Su30 have a hell of difference between them.

 

[My-Analogous]

You Still not Answered the Point Why Russian Let You Upgrade Su-35 With Western Radar Is there any Example

PS: India Officially Buyed Standard Su-30 from Russia Its India Who Added its Modification that customized it into MKI
The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

• 
  
  
  • Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
  • Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
  • Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
  • IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
  • Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
  • Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
  • Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
  • Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE

The Su-30MKI Info Page - Vayu Sena



The contract was signed on 4 April 2006 with the conclusion of negotiations for financing and technology transfer. The first ship was delivered in 30 July 2009, second 23 January 2010 and third one at 15 December 2010. e fourth and last frigate of F-22P series, PNS Aslatwas inducted on 17 April 2013.

It took Seven years For China TO Deliver All 4 F-22p Subs My Figure is Absolutely Right ?Now you Do the math


J-11b is better option and Economical option For PAF than Su-35.Hope it will not go the Path of J-10B

Mate F-22p is not a sub but a frigate

F-22P Zulfiquar-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NKVD]

Mate F-22p is not a sub but a frigate

F-22P Zulfiquar-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mate I think you Should Go through My previous Post to Understand Contest in which i Answers

adar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

That Point Which Not Mentioned Here Are Su-30 MKI Uses Very Potent EW and DRFM Capabilities with ELTA El/M-8222 Self Protection.Su-30 MKI Uses LITENING Israeli-designed precision targeting pod system Which Gives It Edge in Over All operational Capabilities

Not To Mention The . Phase 3 of further development of the MKI Will include the AAR-60(V)2 MILDS F missile approach warning system, the EW management computer and Tarang Mk3 radar warning receiver (developed by DARE and built by Bharat Electronics Ltd), a countermeasures dispenser built by Bharat Dynamics Ltd, TsNIRTI-developed expendable active electronic decoys, a reusable fibre-optic ABRL active radar towed-decoy using suppression, deception and seduction techniques, and an internal EW suite supplied by Elettronica of Italy (the very same Virgilius suite that is on board the MiG-29UPG). The Virgilius family of directional jammers, which are also used by the Eurofighter EF-2000, make use of active phased-array transmitters for jamming hostile low-band (E-G) and high-band (G-J) emitters, and is considered an equivalent of the AESA aperture-based jammers of THALES’ Spectra EW suite. The ABRL can be deployed manually from the cockpit, or automatically upon threat detection.

Soon MKI will get MLU which is Super-30 upgrade Featuring AESA and other Modifications

India Also Planning with Russia to Jointly Develop Fifth-Gen Version of Su-35
Could Su-35S Deal Edge Out Rafale in India?

Ease of maintenance reduces overall cost of a platform by a huge factor and is an important factor in PAF aircraft analysis.

The over-All Cost Maintaining Latest Su-35 is BTW 75-80 Million $ Which Twice the Cost Than Any Aircraft operated By PAF Currently Better to Go For Chinese Alternative in My view J11B or others

 

[ZooZoo]

I think Su35 and Su30 have a hell of difference between them.

Now you are doing thetharlogy (Stupid arguments)..

i dont want to talk about the kargil conflict as will annoy both indians and Pakistanis. it takes two people to fight not one. so no comment

if you read previous post on pdf somewhere(which i doubt you can find) it was the rafales atg capability that was the deciding factor that won the competition. the mirage is a good airframe good for its bombing role as it can carry 9mk-82 bombs. the mig 29 is a good jet but it range makes it more of a defensive jet. like paroling around important areas such as new-Delhi as it near an air base. the mki is more of a remote patrol aircraft also during the kargil conflict the mirage was the only jet that participated

the eft that i am talking about is £125+ million and thats about $195+ million each thats very expensive and that comes will all of the bells and whistles, it will beat any jet out there including the su35 and is on par with the f22 the only thing the f22 has got is stealth thats the only difference. even the saudis will find that a stretch on their budget,

I think we are on same page...

Only one difference,cost is not issue... If EFT was selected we would have easily afforded...

 

[Blue Marlin]

Now you are doing thetharlogy (Stupid arguments)..




I think we are on same page...

Only one difference,cost is not issue... If EFT was selected we would have easily afforded...

you wanted at one point 126 jets at the current prices your looking at $25+billion and that excludes ea package and tot so you would be paying around 30 billion and these jets are no sukhoi they need care and attention for the best performance. so if you were to buy the eft you will not get it will all of the bells and whistles.

 

[ZooZoo]

you wanted at one point 126 jets at the current prices your looking at $25+billion and that excludes ea package and tot so you would be paying around 30 billion and these jets are no sukhoi they need care and attention for the best performance. so if you were to buy the eft you will not get it will all of the bells and whistles.

If required it would have been bought... After USA india is only country which will have more than one 40,000 Ton Aircraft carrier..

India is 5th country to build Nuke submarine.. wait I remember some Brits Spy caught over Charls-da-gaul Carrier , what were they doing?? Stealing nuclear submarine blue-print???

Don't worry about money.. We have enough , we just spend marginal money over our defense..

 

[Blue Marlin]

If required it would have been bought... After USA india is only country which will have more than one 40,000 Ton Aircraft carrier..

India is 5th country to build Nuke submarine.. wait I remember some Brits Spy caught over Charls-da-gaul Carrier , what were they doing?? Stealing nuclear submarine blue-print???

Don't worry about money.. We have enough , we just spend marginal money over our defense..

the MI6 was more interested in inspecting the shielding of the nuclear reactor of the aircraft carrier. we had nukes and nuclear subs at the time. and if the UK was interested in nuclear tech which it was it would have got it from the US which it sort of did. also your nuclear sub reactor design is based of the akula class sub so the sub is indigenous but the reactor has a so what has a soviet past. you can't just go from nothing to nuclear sub in the space of a few decades.

 

[ZooZoo]

the MI6 was more interested in inspecting the shielding of the nuclear reactor of the aircraft carrier. we had nukes and nuclear subs at the time. and if the UK was interested in nuclear tech which it was it would have got it from the US which it sort of did. also your nuclear sub reactor design is based of the akula class sub so the sub is indigenous but the reactor has a so what has a soviet past. you can't just go from nothing to nuclear sub in the space of a few decades.

Send some more satellites, our satellite launch vehicles are ready..

Akula or no Akula who cares... Yesterday or today who cares at the end of day we have it...

The bottom line is India can afford eft, Despite of eft being best fighte in class, It did't fit our reuirement (which we all agree).

 

[Blue Marlin]

no problem i will pass the message on to our universities. our companies use France. remember it was a los nothing to special like high orbit. and the UK has a world leading company that builds them Astrium

so what if Pakistan got a nuclear sub? i can just imagine many indian saying its Chinese with a Pakistan flag on it.
so people are arrogant and some times strange. the eft is simply the best. and the rafale is for indian needs so yeah. the eft is not for you.

i am sort of happy that you did not get it during the big competition. it would have meant that the eft would have been built in india by hal, who cant make good planes. the mki is Russian and has many problems with it. problems similar variants dont have example the mkm. same air frame but different avionics. the mkm are doing beautifully, why? it's Russian built. the tejas took 30 years to get here and will be a failure as its design is obsolete. your hal dhruv don't even get me started.

your slv was designed by Abdul Kalam who just recently passed,and his team

you want to bad mouth the uk then ok i will bad mouth india