If you've ever wondered why there is unrest in Balochistan...

[El Sidd]

Some of my family are retired civil servant and used to work in balochistan province and have similar stories to tell including sardars bribing civil servants to not open schools, hospitals, police stations etc.

Baloch people make up something like 5% of pakistans population and should really have the highest living standards especially when they have been given gas royalties for years. No one can explain where the gas royalties have gone, the sardars children are all sent to top schools in pakistan and abroad but they have denied basic education for their own people.

The main reason for the insurgency is because many of the sardars don't want the status quo to change. Anyone who wants to invest in balochistan has to deal with the corrupt sardars this is what the Chinese are finding out now when trying to recruit qualified people to work in gwadar.

Gwadar won't be a success if the sardars aren't dealt with, if the military or state tries to do that then you saw what happened last time vis a vie bugti. Unless people are willing to acknowledge basic ground realities nothing will change in balochistan simply blaming the military and state is not only simplistic but also fails to acknowledge the root problems.

The question really is

Does the state have the right to exercise powers as such to condition and recondition natural instincts of its populace?

The panchayt and jirga system offer parallel access to governance than state institutions which are marred by processes and procedural paradoxes.

So the ultimate question remains, does the state govern the populace or rule over them.

 

[Ladyuk]

The question really is

Does the state have the right to exercise powers as such to condition and recondition natural instincts of its populace?

The panchayt and jirga system offer parallel access to governance than state institutions which are marred by processes and procedural paradoxes.

So the ultimate question remains, does the state govern the populace or rule over them.

On the surface you asked a very simple question, but in reality it's a very complex question, what I mean by that is pakistan has never been a real democracy hence why I have said many times that pakistan needs a Putin type of leader a authorian rule which might stand a chance to hold pakistan together and improve the lot of its long suffering people.

But even with such a leader and style of governance you will have problems in places like balochistan where if the state tries to intervene to change the lot of its citizens it's met with resistance. That's why I think unless the people in places like balochistan don't get rid of the corrupt sardars themselves nothing will change.

 

[pakpride00090]

Some of my family are retired civil servant and used to work in balochistan province and have similar stories to tell including sardars bribing civil servants to not open schools, hospitals, police stations etc.

Baloch people make up something like 5% of pakistans population and should really have the highest living standards especially when they have been given gas royalties for years. No one can explain where the gas royalties have gone, the sardars children are all sent to top schools in pakistan and abroad but they have denied basic education for their own people.

The main reason for the insurgency is because many of the sardars don't want the status quo to change. Anyone who wants to invest in balochistan has to deal with the corrupt sardars this is what the Chinese are finding out now when trying to recruit qualified people to work in gwadar.

Gwadar won't be a success if the sardars aren't dealt with, if the military or state tries to do that then you saw what happened last time vis a vie bugti. Unless people are willing to acknowledge basic ground realities nothing will change in balochistan simply blaming the military and state is not only simplistic but also fails to acknowledge the root problems.

Learn from Chinese and get help from them and implement Xinjiang model.
Nothing less of that.

Balochistan is not going to change unless these sardars are flushed down the drain. It is just 10 million people with ethnic baloch only 4-5 million. A small percentage of them are trouble makers.

Go full retard on them and see how things change. First we must understand that this is nothing but civil war which you must win. Shove the false emotional slogans like " Hamare bhai hain " ya : musalman hain"

 

[El Sidd]

On the surface you asked a very simple question, but in reality it's a very complex question, what I mean by that is pakistan has never been a real democracy hence why I have said many times that pakistan needs a Putin type of leader a authorian rule which might stand a chance to hold pakistan together and improve the lot of its long suffering people.

But even with such a leader and style of governance you will have problems in places like balochistan where if the state tries to intervene to change the lot of its citizens it's met with resistance. That's why I think unless the people in places like balochistan don't get rid of the corrupt sardars themselves nothing will change.

I do understand that the topic is about Balochistan but this phenomenon exists in Seraiki belt as well as Northern areas.

I don't think the state can do it. Its human instinct which don't remain suppressed too long. Its not even about democracy, a loose concept throughout history subject to cultural interpretations.

State has to always take into account the equation of allegiance to comminity/tribe versus nationalism within the scope of nation states.

World has evolved beyond the wishful thinking of Putins and Ertuguls.

 

[Ladyuk]

Learn from Chinese and get help from them and implement Xinjiang model.
Nothing less of that.

Balochistan is not going to change unless these sardars are flushed down the drain. It is just 10 million people with ethnic baloch only 4-5 million. A small percentage of them are trouble makers.

Go full retard on them and see how things change. First we must understand that this is nothing but civil war which you must win. Shove the false emotional slogans like " Hamare bhai hain " ya : musalman hain"

The xinjiang model which you speak of involved bringing in millions of Han Chinese to xinjiang region to cause a demographic change in order to subdue the region and it's people. In the past non baloch specifically punjabis have been target killed in balochistan including female doctors and school teachers for no other reason than that they were punjabis. So if the state ever decided to follow China's model there would be a blood bath.

If the military go in with full force to take out the corrupt sardars then you will have a even bigger insurgency on your hands than the current one. This is why I said only the baloch people themselves can help resolve this by getting rid of the sardars who mainly rule them by their consent.

 

[pakpride00090]

The xinjiang model which you speak of involved bringing in millions of Han Chinese to xinjiang region to cause a demographic change in order to subdue the region and it's people. In the past non baloch specifically punjabis have been target killed in balochistan including female doctors and school teachers for no other reason than that they were punjabis. So if the state ever decided to follow China's model there would be a blood bath.

If the military go in with full force to take out the corrupt sardars then you will have a even bigger insurgency on your hands than the current one. This is why I said only the baloch people themselves can help resolve this by getting rid of the sardars who mainly rule them by their consent.

What do you think is happening right now and for the last 30 or so years ??
Chinese faced the same issue in Xinjiang and look how changed it is now..

Civil war and blood bath are sometimes required by nature. Americans killed 1 million of each other to eliminate slavery. Russians killed millions of themselves and so did Chinese. All of them are now major powers of the world. Even Indians killed 30k sikhs when they got over ambitious despite the fact that they were over represented in the military.

 

[Ladyuk]

I do understand that the topic is about Balochistan but this phenomenon exists in Seraiki belt as well as Northern areas.

I don't think the state can do it. Its human instinct which don't remain suppressed too long. Its not even about democracy, a loose concept throughout history subject to cultural interpretations.

State has to always take into account the equation of allegiance to comminity/tribe versus nationalism within the scope of nation states.

World has evolved beyond the wishful thinking of Putins and Ertuguls.

What goes on in balochistan also happens in interior sindh too, I agree it's beyond the state to take on these corrupt sardars and waderas. Unless the people in these areas change nothing will change.

 

[pakpride00090]

What goes on in balochistan also happens in interior sindh too, I agree it's beyond the state to take on these corrupt sardars and waderas. Unless the people in these areas change nothing will change.

That is a defeatist mentality.

A lot can be done only if we had a machiavillain trait leader.

 

[El Sidd]

What goes on in balochistan also happens in interior sindh too, I agree it's beyond the state to take on these corrupt sardars and waderas. Unless the people in these areas change nothing will change.

People are well and truly indoctrinated.

50 years from now there will be Urs of Bhutto and Bugti while in a 100 years there would be stories about Benazir Jam Tamachi and Xardari Farhaad.

Similarly the votebank politics based on biraadri will continue in Punjab to manifest itself again as fight between the 12 sons of Prithvi.

This can be said of ehelmalige NWFP and Frei Stadt of FATA.

Somewhere a balance has to be reached which will be easier once urban and rural divide lessons in Pakistan.

 

[Ladyuk]

What do you think is happening right now and for the last 30 or so years ??
Chinese faced the same issue in Xinjiang and look how changed it is now..

Civil war and blood bath are sometimes required by nature. Americans killed 1 million of each other to eliminate slavery. Russians killed millions of themselves and so did Chinese. All of them are now major powers of the world. Even Indians killed 30k sikhs when they got over ambitious despite the fact that they were over represented in the military.

The Chinese state is very powerful they have hung senior members of ccp for corruption in comparison pakistan state is very weak there literally is no law and order. The military is over stretched dealing internal and external enemies and can not afford civil war like situation in any part of the country hence the status quo for now will continue.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Stop mourning about your trivial miseries, PM IK has other important work to do on the front of OIC and find the right IG of Punjab police.

We understand you have to support some proven and tested thugs and thieves, but hey, still there is something call ethics (oooopppps thugs and ethics!).
Only couple of days ago, Arif Hameed Bhatti said in his program that Shahbaz Sharif in his presence gave then IG Police of Punjab orders to kill his opponents in fake encounter.
Yes my friend, Shahbaz was master in selection of IG of Punjab Police. What IK knows!!
"Shahbaz teri Parvaz se jalta hai zamana".

 

[pakpride00090]

The Chinese state is very powerful they have hung senior members of ccp for corruption in comparison pakistan state is very weak there literally is no law and order. The military is over stretched dealing internal and external enemies and can not afford civil war like situation in any part of the country hence the status quo for now will continue.

Unfortunate but true.

 

[Ladyuk]

People are well and truly indoctrinated.

50 years from now there will be Urs of Bhutto and Bugti while in a 100 years there would be stories about Benazir Jam Tamachi and Xardari Farhaad.

Similarly the votebank politics based on biraadri will continue in Punjab to manifest itself again as fight between the 12 sons of Prithvi.

This can be said of ehelmalige NWFP and Frei Stadt of FATA.

Somewhere a balance has to be reached which will be easier once urban and rural divide lessons in Pakistan.

You're comment made me laugh because there is so much truth to it, people in pakistan unfortunately have a habit of blaming others to avoid taking any responsibility themselves, they love blaming the military, so called establishment and even the politicians that they vote for but never do they blame themselves for voting for them. It's always someone else's fault, until and unless people change nothing will really change.

I think there is a famous hadith which states the same thing regarding leadership of nations that until it's people change nothing will change because the leaders are a reflection of the people.

 

[El Sidd]

You're comment made me laugh because there is so much truth to it, people in pakistan unfortunately have a habit of blaming others to avoid taking any responsibility themselves, they love blaming the military, so called establishment and even the politicians that they vote for but never do they blame themselves for voting for them. It's always someone else's fault, until and unless people change nothing will really change.

I think there is a famous hadith which states the same thing regarding leadership of nations that until it's people change nothing will change because the leaders are a reflection of the people.

I would hesitate in indulging in religious aspect of this social quagmire.

As far as the argument of a leader or a leadership is concerned, it is wishful thinking as i said for multicultural and diverse ethnic groups cohabiting the geographical boundaries of a defined nation state to produce one given the delicate political knitting of the social fabric.

War might !!

 

[Ladyuk]

I would hesitate in indulging in religious aspect of this social quagmire.

As far as the argument of a leader or a leadership is concerned, it is wishful thinking as i said for multicultural and diverse ethnic groups cohabiting the geographical boundaries of a defined nation state to produce one given the delicate political knitting of the social fabric.

War might !!

I mentioned that hadith because it perfectly sums up the reality of the situation in pakistan. Homogenous nations like say Bangladesh will always do better than ethnically, linguistically diverse nations like pakistan due to to the people speaking the same language belonging to the same ethnic group having similar values etc. In plain english singing from the same hym sheet if you will. In the absence of a homogeneous demographic pakistan needs a strong leader who can hold the country together, and right now when I look around I sadly don't see one. So the present state of affairs will continue.