If the us invades iran...?

[Developereo]

btw, the most tech savvy people in Iran are the religious ones who have access to unrestricted internet unlike ordinary Iranians.

Doubt it.

During the anti-Ahmedinijad protests recently, cyberspace was pretty much saturated by the pro-West crowd. Very loud, very visible, and holding up signs in English.

Not very convincing as the voice of the Iranian heartland.

 

[huzihaidao12]

Doubt it.

During the anti-Ahmedinijad protests recently, cyberspace was pretty much saturated by the pro-West crowd. Very loud, very visible, and holding up signs in English.

Not very convincing as the voice of the Iranian heartland.

Network，do not simply believe that, unless you clear enough the situation of Iran's network. China, too. no same with a lot of people think. The Chinese government non-interference in the network freedom, 90% of the information without interference, including abroad. Network in China, there have been several well-known events, exposed a lot of things.

 

[Developereo]

Network，do not simply believe that, unless you clear enough the situation of Iran's network. China, too. no same with a lot of people think. The Chinese government non-interference in the network freedom, 90% of the information without interference, including abroad. Network in China, there have been several well-known events, exposed a lot of things.

It wasn't Iranian media, but images on Western media. The Western media narrative was that the entire country was up in revolt against Ahmedinijad, but all you could see were a bunch of young, loud, university students using cell phones, PC's and holding up signs in English.

 

[huzihaidao12]

It wasn't Iranian media, but images on Western media. The Western media narrative was that the entire country was up in revolt against Ahmedinijad, but all you could see were a bunch of young, loud, university students using cell phones, PC's and holding up signs in English.

Well, I do not have much understanding about Iran, Iran true too close, not enough knowledge.

 

[pmukherjee]

No, I don't think the US will invade Iran. The UNSC will definitely not support any such proposal and the NATO which is highly divided and at its wits end in Afghanistan will also not go along any such move. US definitely can not do it alone. US and Israel invading Iran without support of other nations will lack legitimacy. Therefore, unless Iran goes and does something really stupid like trying to nuke Israel with a homemade nuke or sending the Hezbollah to destroy the Empire State Building or the Eiffel tower and generally turning the world opinion drastically against itself, I feel that Iran will not be invaded.

Having said that, invasion of Iran by anybody is not in India's best interests. Iran is a friend and Iran supplies 17% of India's crude imports which are vital for India's energy needs. India is also all set to invest heavily in Iran's energy sector. India therefore doesn't want Iran invaded. There are two ways to go about achieving this and both actually go hand in hand. One is to use whatever influence it has with Iran to ensure that it does not do anything drastic and the other is to dissuade the US from invading( if it come to that) by not supporting such a move.

The courses open to us are clear. The course we will ultimately adopt in an eventuality is however not yet known.

 

[sameer-abc]

It is not only India, but the whole world is at stake due to Israel´s samson option, which clearly says it will bomb all the countries if israel is destroyed.


Since israel is a one bomb country and Iran has said (without mincing words) that it would wipe out israel, the chances are, Iran would use one bomb and do it.

If that happens, Israel has inventory of 200 plus nuke bombs, and they will rain it on all the countries.....

 

[Pasban]

It is not only India, but the whole world is at stake due to Israel´s samson option, which clearly says it will bomb all the countries if israel is destroyed.


Since israel is a one bomb country and Iran has said (without mincing words) that it would wipe out israel, the chances are, Iran would use one bomb and do it.

If that happens, Israel has inventory of 200 plus nuke bombs, and they will rain it on all the countries.....

I don't recall where Iran has said that it would 'wipe Israel of the map', unless one is to go by a translation that does not even fit the wording of the original Farsi speech. On the other hand however, Israel's President has very clearly stated that it [Israel] would wipe Iran off the map. Also, given that Israel has been expansionist and militarist since its inception, Iran has much more to fear from it given its ready nuclear arsenal.

 

[Canaan]

buddy who are you to say what Iranians should be like??
And arabs call Iranians Fars don't they? Well Fars=Pars=Persian!!!
We are Parsis and we are proud of it. If we call ourselves Parsi in the west nobody will understand b/c in the West Parsi people are known as Persians.
And Turks call themselves Turks, why don't you have a problem with that?? Just because the word Parsi was associated with an empire in the past, one that no longer exists, I can no longer call myself Parsi??? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

I speak Parsi, I am a Parsi and I come from the province of Pars.


And if an Iranian woman wants to go to clubs and party, that's her decision. Why are you so concerned? That's the definition of freedom. People should be free to choose. You can be a religious muslim or a pro western liberal. Nobody has the right to force people into anything.

I never said anything about what iranians should be like, it's up to them. But I am still entitled to an opinion.

You should look at the motive, which is exactly the thing I find ridiculous. Some of these people call themselves Persians, not because they are proud of their past, I don't have a problem with that, but as a tool to distance themselves and project their anti-muslim oppinion to others. Why do these people insist that 1400 years of Islam in Iran is boiled down to the events of the last 30 odd years?
Second, these people, a minority, seem to forget that Iran is a multi-ethnic society, and hence the persian people are no longer the majority and hasn't been that for a long time. It seems to me that some persians have a complex and consider themselves white and therefore superior to other ethnicities i.e. turks and arabs even in Iran. Tell me what these people call turk iranians? khar? right?

Regarding iranian women, as I said before, what they do is up to them, I am commenting on what these westernized iranians are doing, is to claim that all of Iran want what they want. If you ask me, reality is that their lifestyle is more suitable in the west than in Iran, and I am sure a lot of other Iranians feel the same way, not all support liberal western lifestyle, and not all are against the current system.
That is what I am trying to say. Neither opinion is the right one. You have to find a common ground.

 

[sameer-abc]

I don't recall where Iran has said that it would 'wipe Israel of the map', unless one is to go by a translation that does not even fit the wording of the original Farsi speech. On the other hand however, Israel's President has very clearly stated that it [Israel] would wipe Iran off the map. Also, given that Israel has been expansionist and militarist since its inception, Iran has much more to fear from it given its ready nuclear arsenal.

Quoting CNN:

Iran's new president has repeated a remark from a former ayatollah that Israel should be "wiped out from the map," insisting that a new series of attacks will destroy the Jewish state, and lashing out at Muslim countries and leaders that acknowledge Israel.

 

[r3alist]

Iranians in general are very religious people.

sorry i am completely confused, i thought that in general iranians were very "pro secular" and "pro islamic"

Islam will never go away nor do I want it to.

but as a Zoroastrian what use is islam to you? what use is the OIC?

nobody will be forcing people to become Western, we already are.

western AND religious - i think the two are almost mutually exclusive.

Also you keep talking about the ummah.
Even the Islamic Republic is composed of nationalist shias. In Iran we will always care about Iran first then the ummah. That's why many Iranians hate this regime. They see the regime as a sellout and anti Iranian because it is helping the Lebanese etc...

so if i understand you iran is becoming modern and secular, but holds onto some vestiges of islam because of the mullahs, however you dont care about islam in the sense that you want to further the ummah in some way - only do what helps secular western iran?

 

[Abii]

sorry i am completely confused, i thought that in general iranians were very "pro secular" and "pro islamic"



but as a Zoroastrian what use is islam to you? what use is the OIC?



western AND religious - i think the two are almost mutually exclusive.





so if i understand you iran is becoming modern and secular, but holds onto some vestiges of islam because of the mullahs, however you dont care about islam in the sense that you want to further the ummah in some way - only do what helps secular western iran?

I said Iranians are religious, and they are. We are the people who created the first monotheistic religion on earth (Zoroastrianism) thousand of years ago. Before that it was Mithraism etc...

You are equating religious with radical muslims!!
And being Western has nothing to do with not being religious. Turks are more religious than many Iranian people and they proudly call themselves muslims, yet they are very western.

 

[Abii]

I never said anything about what iranians should be like, it's up to them. But I am still entitled to an opinion.

You should look at the motive, which is exactly the thing I find ridiculous. Some of these people call themselves Persians, not because they are proud of their past, I don't have a problem with that, but as a tool to distance themselves and project their anti-muslim oppinion to others. Why do these people insist that 1400 years of Islam in Iran is boiled down to the events of the last 30 odd years?
Second, these people, a minority, seem to forget that Iran is a multi-ethnic society, and hence the persian people are no longer the majority and hasn't been that for a long time. It seems to me that some persians have a complex and consider themselves white and therefore superior to other ethnicities i.e. turks and arabs even in Iran. Tell me what these people call turk iranians? khar? right?

Regarding iranian women, as I said before, what they do is up to them, I am commenting on what these westernized iranians are doing, is to claim that all of Iran want what they want. If you ask me, reality is that their lifestyle is more suitable in the west than in Iran, and I am sure a lot of other Iranians feel the same way, not all support liberal western lifestyle, and not all are against the current system.
That is what I am trying to say. Neither opinion is the right one. You have to find a common ground.

god you are such a tool!
I don't know where to start.

First of all, in the past, during the times of the Iranian Empire, less than 5-10 percent of the country was Parsi. We controlled an area where the majority of people were non Parsi. Today 64 percent of Iran has Persian as their mother tongue and 100 percent of the country can read and write the language. Therefore, Iran today is actually more Parsi than in the past.
That's one part of your weird theory flushed down the toilet.
Lets go to the next one.
In Iran Parsis ARE THE MAJORITY. I don't know where the fudge you were schooled but according to the UN figures, 64 percent of the country is Persian. Another 10 percent are Mazandaranis, Gilakis etc... who are also Persian but are classified as another ethnicity because of their regional accents and culture. That's 3/4 of Iran right there. Azaris are 13 percent and Kurds are 7. I have never in my life heard somebody say that Azaris look different than other Iranians. They are no different than other Iranians but only speak another language. And yeah, there is racism in Iran, but it's because of the historical rivalry between the two ethnicities in Iran. I'm not even gonna go into that b/c you don't even have the most rudimentary knowledge about the country.
Also nobody wants to deny the 1400 years of Islam. Did it ever occur to you that maybe a person could be more proud of the pre Islamic period? They have a right to be proud of their history.

Regarding the Iranian society.
I always hear Arabs/Pakistanis defending the religious Iranians and calling Western Iranians dumb etc... and the Americans calling religious Iranians stupid and in the minority.
Both factions are frankly just a bunch of loudmouthed ****
People used to say that "miniskirts are shorter in Tehran than they are in Paris"
My mom wore the Hijab for the first time in her life after the revolution. That country turned to this country over night.

Things change quickly. If you want to know what Iran is like in the year 2010, you have to go there and experience it. If you're not going to do that than please keep your opinions to yourself and accept the fact that we Iranians know more about our country than a Palestinian living in Europe.

 

[Canaan]

god you are such a tool!
I don't know where to start.

First of all, in the past, during the times of the Iranian Empire, less than 5-10 percent of the country was Parsi. We controlled an area where the majority of people were non Parsi. Today 64 percent of Iran has Persian as their mother tongue and 100 percent of the country can read and write the language. Therefore, Iran today is actually more Parsi than in the past.
That's one part of your weird theory flushed down the toilet.
Lets go to the next one.
In Iran Parsis ARE THE MAJORITY. I don't know where the fudge you were schooled but according to the UN figures, 64 percent of the country is Persian. Another 10 percent are Mazandaranis, Gilakis etc... who are also Persian but are classified as another ethnicity because of their regional accents and culture. That's 3/4 of Iran right there. Azaris are 13 percent and Kurds are 7. I have never in my life heard somebody say that Azaris look different than other Iranians. They are no different than other Iranians but only speak another language. And yeah, there is racism in Iran, but it's because of the historical rivalry between the two ethnicities in Iran. I'm not even gonna go into that b/c you don't even have the most rudimentary knowledge about the country.
Also nobody wants to deny the 1400 years of Islam. Did it ever occur to you that maybe a person could be more proud of the pre Islamic period? They have a right to be proud of their history.

Regarding the Iranian society.
I always hear Arabs/Pakistanis defending the religious Iranians and calling Western Iranians dumb etc... and the Americans calling religious Iranians stupid and in the minority.
Both factions are frankly just a bunch of loudmouthed ****
People used to say that "miniskirts are shorter in Tehran than they are in Paris"
My mom wore the Hijab for the first time in her life after the revolution. That country turned to this country over night.

Things change quickly. If you want to know what Iran is like in the year 2010, you have to go there and experience it. If you're not going to do that than please keep your opinions to yourself and accept the fact that we Iranians know more about our country than a Palestinian living in Europe.

Easy there cowboy!

First take a chill pill, no need for name calling and the winding up

Second, if you read my comment earlier you would notice my first exact words were " I am not an expert on Iran", and thus you are more than welcome to correct me, as long as it is in a good debating tone.

Third, I am aware of your first section regarding the persian empire, the ruling class was persian, true. And that the majority of modern day Iran speak farsi, true again. My point was about ethnicity vs supremacy. Meaning that some persians claim they descend from a white Aryan lineage and hence feel it's ok to talk down on other ethnicities and religions in Iran and the near vicinity, especially regarding muslims, arabs and turks which they feel are inferior.

Experts argue that Persians, with only a slim majority, possess a distinct sense of superiority over other Iranians and regard themselves as true heirs of Iran’s history and tradition and the guardians and perpetrators of its legacies.
Source: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34021.pdf, Sandra Mackey, Iranians: Persia, Islam and the Soul of a Nation, 1996.

Do you follow me so far?

Regarding the definition of parsi/farsi, we seem to mean different things, I mean the original ethnicity you say people who speak farsi. So yes Iran is a majority farsi speaking country.
Regarding the ethnic set up of Iran, my claim was based on what I read and heard from different Iranian sources. It could be a wrong conclusion though, I am open to that possibility.
You claim a 64% persian majority, yet the CIA factbook for instance claim a set up that looks like this; Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen, and 2%, other 1%. But a common understanding is that no body knows for real how the set up is. And frankly who cares? (other than those supremacists like this guy http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=62998.

People do in fact have a right to be proud of their past, and they should, but for me it stops when it is used as a tool to dehumanize or ridicule others.
I don't support neither religious or liberal Iranians or others for that sake when they are jerk offs. I only support good and honest people regardless of their religious or political view.

People used to say that "miniskirts are shorter in Tehran than they are in Paris"
My mom wore the Hijab for the first time in her life after the revolution. That country turned to this country over night.

Things change quickly. If you want to know what Iran is like in the year 2010, you have to go there and experience it. If you're not going to do that than please keep your opinions to yourself and accept the fact that we Iranians know more about our country than a Palestinian living in Europe

Iran pre- 1925 was a conservative society, liberalism and modernity you speak off was the result of the industrialization and westernization of the country following the take over by Reza Khan, or Reza Shah, and hence the miniskirt you speak of was not a part of Iranian society before that, rather it was conservative clothing including the hijab which you would often see women wear. So to speak of Iran as a country that always was liberal and modern until the revolution is factually wrong.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do not support crimes and injustice committed in Iran by this system, I do not have an intention of telling Iranians how they should live their lives, and I don't have anything against iranians/persians regardless of their religion.
I only ask those special few to be fair to the history and diversity of Iran instead of conveniently manipulating facts to support their political anti-muslim/arab agenda.

If you're not going to do that than please keep your opinions to yourself and accept the fact that we Iranians know more about our country than a Palestinian living in Europe

You are aware of the concept of freedom of speech, and I am sure that's one of the things you fight for right?
Just because one is Iranian doesn't mean he or she automatically knows more about iran than others? what kind of reasoning is that?
I have met plenty of Iranians that don't even speak their own language yet you expect them to know anything about iran.
This Palestinian living in Europe is married to an Iranian so expect me to know at least a little about my wife's background

But let's not argue anymore as I believe we agree on the majority of issues anyway

 

[r3alist]

I said Iranians are religious, and they are. We are the people who created the first monotheistic religion on earth (Zoroastrianism) thousand of years ago. Before that it was Mithraism etc...

You are equating religious with radical muslims!!
And being Western has nothing to do with not being religious. Turks are more religious than many Iranian people and they proudly call themselves muslims, yet they are very western.

geez, what a way to deflect.

religious....but in what religion?

because you sound like you are contradicting yourself here!

 

[Abii]

Easy there cowboy!

First take a chill pill, no need for name calling and the winding up

Second, if you read my comment earlier you would notice my first exact words were " I am not an expert on Iran", and thus you are more than welcome to correct me, as long as it is in a good debating tone.

Third, I am aware of your first section regarding the persian empire, the ruling class was persian, true. And that the majority of modern day Iran speak farsi, true again. My point was about ethnicity vs supremacy. Meaning that some persians claim they descend from a white Aryan lineage and hence feel it's ok to talk down on other ethnicities and religions in Iran and the near vicinity, especially regarding muslims, arabs and turks which they feel are inferior.



Do you follow me so far?

Regarding the definition of parsi/farsi, we seem to mean different things, I mean the original ethnicity you say people who speak farsi. So yes Iran is a majority farsi speaking country.
Regarding the ethnic set up of Iran, my claim was based on what I read and heard from different Iranian sources. It could be a wrong conclusion though, I am open to that possibility.
You claim a 64% persian majority, yet the CIA factbook for instance claim a set up that looks like this; Persian 51%, Azeri 24%, Gilaki and Mazandarani 8%, Kurd 7%, Arab 3%, Lur 2%, Baloch 2%, Turkmen, and 2%, other 1%. But a common understanding is that no body knows for real how the set up is. And frankly who cares? (other than those supremacists like this guy http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=62998.

People do in fact have a right to be proud of their past, and they should, but for me it stops when it is used as a tool to dehumanize or ridicule others.
I don't support neither religious or liberal Iranians or others for that sake when they are jerk offs. I only support good and honest people regardless of their religious or political view.



Iran pre- 1925 was a conservative society, liberalism and modernity you speak off was the result of the industrialization and westernization of the country following the take over by Reza Khan, or Reza Shah, and hence the miniskirt you speak of was not a part of Iranian society before that, rather it was conservative clothing including the hijab which you would often see women wear. So to speak of Iran as a country that always was liberal and modern until the revolution is factually wrong.

Please do not misunderstand me, I do not support crimes and injustice committed in Iran by this system, I do not have an intention of telling Iranians how they should live their lives, and I don't have anything against iranians/persians regardless of their religion.
I only ask those special few to be fair to the history and diversity of Iran instead of conveniently manipulating facts to support their political anti-muslim/arab agenda.



You are aware of the concept of freedom of speech, and I am sure that's one of the things you fight for right?
Just because one is Iranian doesn't mean he or she automatically knows more about iran than others? what kind of reasoning is that?
I have met plenty of Iranians that don't even speak their own language yet you expect them to know anything about iran.
This Palestinian living in Europe is married to an Iranian so expect me to know at least a little about my wife's background

But let's not argue anymore as I believe we agree on the majority of issues anyway

1) that Irandefence dude is Osonloor, he is a Turkish dude that is extremely anti Persian and goes all over the internet trying to convince people that Iran is dominated by Turks. His new strategy is to say **** like that to make Parsi look dumb and racist. He got banned thankfully.

2) My source is more credible than the CIA world fact book. The CIA web site is good for GDP, literacy rates etc... where there is only one official number that can be updated regularly using one source. Since 1970 every source on the world wide web gives out the Persians are 51% number. The most RECENT research was done in the 2000s however and it shows the Azeri and Kurdish languages disappearing while the Persian language is gaining ground. That map I gave you was used in the national geographic.
I even gave you an example about how my grand father spoke a diff language as his mother tongue but me and my father had Persian as ours. I had this Kurdish Iranian dude in my football team and for 4 years I had no idea he was Kurdish. One day his phone rang and it was his grand father and he started speaking Kurdish with him. We were all surprised. He explained after that his grand father doesn't speak good Persian so all the family is forced to know some Kurdish!

3) that mini skirt thing was an example to show how quickly things change. And you are right. Before the 20's Iran was like Afghanistan and that's another example of how things change. I never said Iran was always liberal. Back then Iran had a policy like Ata Turk's Turkey. Women would be stopped in the streets and their hijab would be torn into pieces. By the 70's Iranian women were wearing sexier clothes than women in Europe. Then bammmm, revolution happened (which wasn't meant to be an Islamic one but that is for another discussion).
so you see, the Iran of 2010 isn't the Iran of 1990. In the past 20 years the post revolution kids have reached adult hood. They are mostly anti Islamic Republic and are very Western and liberal. The whole "green rev" was the first sign that Iran will change.

4) Every tribe in Iran (except arabs), including the Azaris, is Aryan. We all consider ourselves Aryan and in all my life I have never heard a Parsi say "we're more aryan than you."
Aryan has nothing to do with skin color but it's all about culture and it's unique to Iran. The geramns stole that word. The first Iranian king 2500 years ago said "I am king of kings, king of the Aryans." That is why a black Iranian from the south and an East Asian looking Iranian from the North East proudly calls him/herself Aryan.

5) Yes, Persians might have a superiority complex but that is completely normal. My ancestors conquered every territory from India to Asia minor and Egypt. We invented everything from the Guitar to the postal system. Of course we are proud and sometimes it gets too much but you can't blame us. We also over do it because we're constantly under attack. The Arabs hate us (despise us in fact) for being Parsis and the Iranian govt wants Iranians to forget their history and only talk about the post Islamic history. In the beginning of the rev they were destroying Iran's ancient sites (like how the Saudis did in the past). In the West our culture is also under attack (300 and the Prince of Persia are some easy examples).