What's new

If the F/A 18 Super Hornet Wins the MMRCA

Yeah i am pssemistic on US as regard to there policies.. As far as celebration is concerned we should do it when there is a light seen at the end of tunnel (i.e.) when agreement is signed not when the winner is announced... Let see what happens... I guess there is a waste of time... The bidders should have parallely got a gohead from the government when the winners are finally announced.. this is sick .. first We give to US... after 6 months they will say no then we go to Europe and they will take another 3 months and it will take a year to sign the contract.... so again a delay... :hitwall:

It is sad but this is how such big contracts work...Imagine if we go by your route and GE as well as Eurojet both come out with a "Go Ahead" mandate from their respective govt. what you will do??? Now you cannot say...hey Eurojet thanks for the good work however sorry becuase GE has also come up with a positive response...The way it works is - GE has come up as a winner of the bid, they know about our requirements related to TOT....Now assumption is they bidded with some backing from some corners that they would be able to meet India's requirements...Now GOI has given them chance to come up with required approvals and in case they don't then we will move to Eurojet, in other words extra pressure on GE to come up with positive mandate...
 
. .
It is sad but this is how such big contracts work...Imagine if we go by your route and GE as well as Eurojet both come out with a "Go Ahead" mandate from their respective govt. what you will do??? Now you cannot say...hey Eurojet thanks for the good work however sorry becuase GE has also come up with a positive response...The way it works is - GE has come up as a winner of the bid, they know about our requirements related to TOT....Now assumption is they bidded with some backing from some corners that they would be able to meet India's requirements...Now GOI has given them chance to come up with required approvals and in case they don't then we will move to Eurojet, in other words extra pressure on GE to come up with positive mandate...

:blink: am i missing something here?.. if they are bidding and if they win the contract they should be supplying us the product right??.. why does the buyer has to be uncertainty?? :blink:
 
. .
Summerising your post.

Power projection and war are two different thing, US currently projects power all over the world, doesnt mean that it can actually point blank defeat its cold war enemy Russia.

So please stop your rant. iam enjoying my dream:cheesy:

must be a wet one :rofl: oh , my bad :rofl:no DisTurbance when someone's dreaming and enjoying at the same time:rofl:

ek ticket men do mazay:rofl: meaning : single ticket , double mazay:rofl:
 
.
MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n;1174260 said:
must be a wet one :rofl: oh , my bad :rofl:no DisTurbance when someone's dreaming and enjoying at the same time:rofl:

ek ticket men do mazay:rofl: meaning : single ticket , double mazay:rofl:

hooo my god you are back??
 
. .
We can already see the impact now, when Obama said he wouldn't arm Pakistan against India. Minus aid, minus the upgrades for the F-16(keeping in mind the current relations of Pak with US).

As far as China is concerned, India is important for US against China regardless of it selling F-18sh to India or not.

Regarding relations with other countries, MRCA is not the only deal here, theres also multi-billion deal for subs with European countries, PAK-FA with Russia.

India is an important market till 2020 or 2025, by that time the indegenious programmes would have matured enough to be more self-reliant.
 
. . .
now coming back to the topic here , suppose if india do get those f18 birdies, now what difference can they possibly make when it comes to PakisTan's s.a.m. systems ??
 
.
:blink: am i missing something here?.. if they are bidding and if they win the contract they should be supplying us the product right??.. why does the buyer has to be uncertainty?? :blink:

Sadly this is not how defence industry work... Lot of money has been put in by respective states in R&D and such technologies cannot be shared just like that(read just for money)...On top of it lot of geo-politics is involved, so private players can only say we will provide you what you need if Govt. allowed....

Imagine if relations between GOI and American go for a toss do you think any contract would have any bearing??? In short private players cannot go outside Govt. writ....The political decision will always be real time, you cannot expect a govt to allow the export for some bid which will fructify in future after some significant time(read time taken for evaluation and other contractual negotiations)....
 
.
F-18E advantages: mature AESA technology, lots of internal fuel, good take off/landing characteristics, combat proven, possibility for Growler.

EF2000/Rafale advantages: agility, speed.
 
.
How GE's Tejas MK-II Win Affects The MMRCA. Or Doesn't.


4-776116.jpg



In a little over two months from now, the Indian Ministry of Defence will approve the Indian Air Force's field trial evaluation report and begin commercial negotiations with what the IAF hopes will be a downselected list of vendors. Remember, the IAF has not explicitly indicated a downselect, leaving it to the MoD to understand this from the level of compliance index.

Now, there's an overwhelming sense that India's selection of the GE F414 engine makes things much, much clearer about the MMRCA competition, and narrows things down considerably. For clarity's sake, variants of the F414 power the Boeing F/A-18 IN Super Hornet and the next generation Saab Gripen IN, while the Eurojet EJ200 -- which lost to GE in the Tejas MK-II competition -- powers the Eurofighter Typhoon.

The logic was always compelling. A dedicated licensed engine production line in the country for the Tejas MK-II would provide robust economy of scale advantages and funnel down the contenders in the MMRCA. That's how it probably should happen, but will it? Another matter altogether. Some scenarios:

SCENARIO 1: At least six IAF officers I spoke to suggested that it would be wrong to connect the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA on too many levels. One of them suggested that the two deals were mutually exclusive, with a sharp line dividing the two -- in other words, the decision on one had no way of influencing the other. Therefore, in this scenario, the GE F414 selection provides no tangible advantages, going forward in the MMRCA, to the F/A-18 and Gripen NG, even though those advantages would normally shout loud. When I asked an Air Marshal, formerly at Eastern Air Command HQ, how this could be justified -- considering how it goes headlong against the economies of scale notion -- he said, "You must understand that each deal is a leverage in itself. The government can choose to draw connections and give the country the most effective deal. Or it could keep everything separate and leave all options open for maximum leverage. In my understanding, the government would not hand GE an automatic victory in the MMRCA as a default result of the Tejas MK-II selection. That is not how things happen in India." The other crucial point here is: if the GE victory wasn't politically premeditated, then there exists no procedural route for the Tejas MK-II engine selection to be taken into account in a potential MMRCA downselect. In other words, if the MMRCA is sticking unflinchingly to the RFP (as the Indian Defence Minister recently stated in Washington, and reiterated yesterday by Air Marshal NAK Browne, the IAF's Western Command chief), then GE's win would/could have no direct bearing on the MMRCA downselect simply because there is no official route for it to do so. The last critical point: the F414 engine that will be built in India under tech-transfer, will be a modified engine for the Tejas. If an F414-powered airplane happens to be selected in the MMRCA, then it is likely that there will be two lines, or a fork in the main line.

SCENARIO 2: The opposite scenario. Here, the government decides that a dedicated GE F414 engine line in the country means it makes sense to narrow down the selection based on the economies of engine scale logic. In other words, you have the Gripen going against the Super Hornet in the MMRCA finals.

SUB-SCENARIO 2 (a) But there are important points to remember here to: two extravagantly different aircraft, same engine in different configurations. The US government would obviously support the F/A-18, and GE would clearly prefer the F/A-18, since it's American and a twin-engine platform, so it means double the number of engines sold by GE as compared to the number it would sell if India chose the Gripen. In this scenario, the GE F414 economies of scale and political considerations would push the F/A-18 to the top of the list.

SUB-SCENARIO 2 (b) In this scenario, the government decides it already has economies of scale, and pushes the Gripen forward as a perceived compromise: the cheaper aircraft, with American engine and weapons. The US cannot exercise export licensing controls on the Gripen's GE engine since each vendor had to submit a signed affidavit before field trials that all systems listed in their bid documents were available, and needed no further approvals from any government. Remember, the IAF has said it won't choose a twin-engine aircraft in the MMRCA, if a single-engine aircraft can "do the job", i.e, is satisfactorily compliant on all 643 test points that each of the six airplanes were tested for during the field evaluation trials (FETs). But now it's up to the MoD.

SCENARIO 3: In this scenario, the GE victory in the Tejas MK-II engine competition, has a reverse effect on the MMRCA, and pushes the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale and F-16 (the MiG-35 is all but officially confirmed to be out) to the top of the pile, since alternate engines provide their own leverage. Scenarios 2 & 3 are of course assuming the government won't look at the Tejas MK-II and the MMRCA as "two watertight compartments" as an officer put it.


Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: How GE's Tejas MK-II Win Affects The MMRCA. Or Doesn't.
 
.
As the Results of the Final Victor is yet to be announced ( and we are atleast an Year away before we Know the Ultimate Winner ) , The Semifinals Have been Played and Won... and Surprisingly by Boeing !

The Selection of GE 414 as the Engine Powering LCA MK II has a great perspective on the Final Selection.

The News was Already in Circles :::



NOW CONSIDER THIS : Super Hornet Gets Selected for MMRCA ... What will be the IMPACT ?

#1. The Strength : IAF vs PAF & IAF vs PLAAF
#2. The Edge : INDIA vs PAKISTAN
#3. The Relations of : Pakistan ( Getting F16s ) & USA ( Supplying F18s to INDIA )
#4. The Asian Power Projection
#5. INDO - US Relations
#6. INDIA - Russa, France and EU Relations.


Lets Share our Views on the Above Points.
Comments Most Welcome.

planesF18Hornet.jpg

But Sir my opinion is totally different that because of selection of American engine MMRCA going to F18 cause as all we know IAF need more than 200 Tejas (MK2) so their is no point that they cant handle different engines.

I think selection of their engine make their chances in MMRCA more narrow cause just emagine IAF want to induct Euro Fighters so their is no profit to select same engine for both fighters . I think its not good if want to be self reliable.

ToT of GE 414 for Tejas
+Tot of EJ 200 for EF
+ Tot of Pak FA engine
= Kaveri Engine for AMCA
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom