If JF-17 as good as the F-16.

[DESERT FIGHTER]

How come they said PAF is getting them soon.

coz its under production... and probably will take a few more months to hand the jets to PAF for induction ..

 

[Superboy]

Yes I have this question for a time if the JF-17 as good as the F-16 why China never inducted?.

Because China uses big planes like J-10. JF-17 is a Gripen sized light fighter.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

See if only if they make it a little bigger with bigger engine and payload that lead to a bigger antenna then it will be the work horse of the PAF like the mirage 2k but that still if by the way just like the Russian gave the rd-33 they can deliver the al31 its more than adequate for the bigger JF-17. It's if alas.

Why in the world with AL-31 we go for a whole new design when a J-10 is already in the air and matured for least 5 bloody years when our little baby JFT was taking its first flying jumps while its wheels open. Indeed their was reason behind it that it does not fits the requirement a big engine and antenna and other big things may hit the bill and it won't be as cheap as JFT.
JFT is not meant to be an F-16 but it meant to be a platform which may replace multiple ageing platforms in PAF inventory and fit the war doctrine while hovering with in the budget. In fact this platform with its gizmos is turning into a poor mans F-16 slowly. As its Radar, other sensors and avionics improvement brings it in quiet a position to challenge bigger and better adversaries.

 

[Malik Alashter]

Why in the world with AL-31 we go for a whole new design when a J-10 is already in the air and matured for least 5 bloody years when our little baby JFT was taking its first flying jumps while its wheels open. Indeed their was reason behind it that it does not fits the requirement a big engine and antenna and other big things may hit the bill and it won't be as cheap as JFT.
JFT is not meant to be an F-16 but it meant to be a platform which may replace multiple ageing platforms in PAF inventory and fit the war doctrine while hovering with in the budget. In fact this platform with its gizmos is turning into a poor mans F-16 slowly. As its Radar, other sensors and avionics improvement brings it in quiet a position to challenge bigger and better adversaries.

Its not going to be a new desine its just strechted to host a big engine.

second it going to host bigger radar.

third its going to carry more load.

forth itsnot going to be more expensive to the limit they can't afford it it will be at latest 25 m$.

fivth the Swedish actually doing the same with the new NG jas gripen.

Or they just strengthening the body using the ws-13 if it is really more powerful than the rd-93.

and better radar.

 

[tarrar]

Yes I have this question for a time if the JF-17 as good as the F-16 why China never inducted?.

JF17 is not as good as F16, similarly J31 is not even close to F35, but the people think J31 is equivalent to F35 which is wrong. China & Russia combine are way behind US & they need a lot of time to catch up with US Military technology.

 

[Malik Alashter]

JF17 is not as good as F16, similarly J31 is not even close to F35, but the people think J31 is equivalent to F35 which is wrong. China & Russia combine are way behind US & they need a lot of time to catch up with US Military technology.

No doubt The US of America is the top in technology. But China and Rushia are making progress soon they will catch up with the USA especially China for the big amount of money they spend on reserch and development.

 

[acid rain]

JF17 is not as good as F16, similarly J31 is not even close to F35, but the people think J31 is equivalent to F35 which is wrong. China & Russia combine are way behind US & they need a lot of time to catch up with US Military technology.

It's the numbers game,

comparing jf 17 with f16 is 50 airframes vs 4500 airframes made till date.

j20/j31 with f22/f35 - a couple of prototypes vs 300 frames / orders for 2500 airframes.

Russia has been equivalently successful with the migs and sukhois sold in thousands.

China is not even in the ball park.

 

[SBD-3]

Russia has been equivalently successful with the migs and sukhois sold in thousands.China is not even in the ball park.

Migs have a history of being manhandled by western fighters when facing equivalent capability. Russian air crafts have little to show for themselves-maybe because of their builders or because of people flying them-

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Its not going to be a new desine its just strechted to host a big engine.

second it going to host bigger radar.

third its going to carry more load.

forth itsnot going to be more expensive to the limit they can't afford it it will be at latest 25 m$.

fivth the Swedish actually doing the same with the new NG jas gripen.

Or they just strengthening the body using the ws-13 if it is really more powerful than the rd-93.

and better radar.

Bhai are you serious :/ I mean I could not comprehend it or you just said that just stretching the design will be good enough to accommodate the mighty AL-31 instead of mini me RD-93 and their will be no aerodynamic, hydrodynamics, material strength bla bla bla required to address the integration of bigger engine.

Even if it's possible the way you have said what about the fuel consumption just stretching the internal fuel storage be an easy task ???
What about the lifecycle and flying per hour cost how PAF going to quench the thirst of the mighty Salyut AL-31 and fits the life cycle etc bill ???

Hosting a bigger radar is not every thing :/ ...

Bhai you said it's not gonna be expensive :|, brah! Only research and development for this extension gonna costs millions and price gonna shoot up to equalise J-10 or exceed.

Grippen NG is altogether a different story don't compare it with JFT in the very case you are mentioning. If you wanna compare it this way then it could be like Grippen be switched to GE-F110 an absolutely another class of engine.

Right now Grippen is flying with same engine with uprated thrust that means the same series with uprated version. F404 to F414.

The last thing is yes WS-13 is the right path for JFT similar to JAS-39 and if included with composite body like reinforced carbon fibre, honey comb structures and other special materials it may increase in price moderately but value as well.

 

[acid rain]

Migs have a history of being manhandled by western fighters when facing equivalent capability. Russian air crafts have little to show for themselves-maybe because of their builders or because of people flying them-

In the hands of capable air forces with unlimited resources and training, they can come into their own.

 

[Storm Force]

Your guys trying to turn a basic lightweight fighter designed to be low cost simple to build and maintain into a late advanced fourth generation fighter with bells and whistles.

Thunder costs one third the price if the gripen or f16/52, because it has no

Composites
No true unstable design with quadruplex flybywire
No Hms
No listening pod
No modern crsytal blade engines
No western weapons carrying capability

You guys want to add all of above including aesa radars you better spend two billion on developments cost and a decade of testing

 

[My-Analogous]

JF17 is not as good as F16, similarly J31 is not even close to F35, but the people think J31 is equivalent to F35 which is wrong. China & Russia combine are way behind US & they need a lot of time to catch up with US Military technology.

Chinese are at least 10 year behind in term of avionics
Chinese are at least 10 year behind in term of stealth technology
Chinese are at least 20 year behind in term of engines
Chinese are at least 05 year behind in term of AAM
Chinese are at least 02 year ahead in term of surface to surface missiles.

Past 10 years China progress very fast and you can place china 2nd in many field of weapons and catching US in faster pace and past 60 year US was never challenge like that before. When USSR was not given US that much touch time like China is given them.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@fatman17 @Munir @Oscar and others can help you in this

dont quote them.. there is ample information in the subsection of JF-17 info pool. @Malik Alashter help yourself to JF-17 sub forum. there is plenty of information and comparison.
dont be too lazy.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Your guys trying to turn a basic lightweight fighter designed to be low cost simple to build and maintain into a late advanced fourth generation fighter with bells and whistles.

Thunder costs one third the price if the gripen or f16/52, because it has no

Composites
No true unstable design with quadruplex flybywire
No Hms
No listening pod
No modern crsytal blade engines
No western weapons carrying capability

You guys want to add all of above including aesa radars you better spend two billion on developments cost and a decade of testing

The JF-17 Thunder does use composite materials.

What is the problem not having a true unstable design with quadruplex fly by wire if the plane is performing well ?

The JF-17 Thunder does have a helmet mounted sight.

Listening pod ? You mean a ELINT pod. The JF-17 is able to carry various kind of pods and if Pakistan needs a ELINT pod for the JF-17 then the JF-17 will have a ELINT pod.

The RD-93 is a single crystal blade engine.

The JF-17 has available to her a wide range of Chinese weapons but also has the flexibility to carry western and other countries weapons. Pakistan has already integrated weapons from Brazil onto the JF-17.

Spending 2 billion dollars and many years on a new AESA radar ? Hardly, China has already spendt considerable amount of money on a AESA radar for the J-10B and they will have to spend a little more money and time to make a lighter version for the JF-17.

The reason that the JF-17 Thunder is able to keep its cost low is because a lot of the systems on the JF-17 Thunder is able to piggy back on the development of the J-10 and there for significantly reduce cost.

Personally I don't think that the JF-17 is as good as the F-16. But with the block II upgrade and the new RD-93MA engines the JF-17 has become a whole new ball game from just being a low cost light fighter. It is closing in on the JAS-39 Gripen.

 

[Storm Force]

The gripen looks feels and has incredible specs.

If thunder ever got close to a gripen I would be shocked and jealous in equal measure

Design wise the gripen is in another league