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if that is true no one will buy the israeli Spike ATGM anymore :P

before the 1973 , western propagandists like yourself used to say the Bar Lev line was impregnable , but the Soviet Saggers destroyed many israeli tanks , i'm sure this time too , they have something in their arsenal to counter the most incompetent western tank , Merkava 4 , for now at least Hezbollah has super land mines that trophy can do nothing against , they will even cripple the israeli tanks equipped with mine harvesters




probably something like this

original.jpg




don't worry , a salvo of RPG 7's 10's 29's and kornets will bring down your tank for good , and possibly kill the crew
Trophy is a self reloading system with a very short reloading period. Coordinating such an attack would be next to impossible, and dont forget ull need to penetrate the tank's armor aswell
for top attack i think akkor is the best choice but it will lack in protection against conventional atgm threat launched at close range because it is mounted on the top of the tank and it also pack less ammunition so thats another negative
View attachment 304919
Rafael started talks with IMI on the iron fist aps
 
Hezbollah's Creative Tactical Use of Anti-Tank Weaponry
Publication: Terrorism Focus Volume: 3 Issue: 32
August 15, 2006 03:20 PM Age: 10 yrs
By: Andrew McGregor

The Russian-made, Syrian-supplied Kornet missile.

As the world waits to see if the UN-brokered ceasefire in Lebanon holds, the Israeli army will begin assessing its disappointing performance against Hezbollah guerrillas. Among the many aspects to be investigated is the vulnerability of Israel's powerful armored corps to small, hand-held, wire-guided anti-tank weapons. Indeed, Hezbollah's innovative use of anti-tank missiles was the cause of most Israeli casualties and has given the small but powerful weapons a new importance in battlefield tactics.



In a recent statement, Hezbollah's armed wing, al-Moqawama al-Islamia (Islamic Resistance), described Israel's main battle-tank as "a toy for the rockets of the resistance" (al-Manar TV, August 11). Hezbollah's anti-tank weapons consist of a variety of wire-guided missiles (usually of Russian design and manufactured and/or supplied by Iran and Syria) and rocket-propelled grenade launchers (RPGs). The missiles include the European-made Milan, the Russian-designed Metis-M, Sagger AT-3, Spigot AT-4 and the Russian-made Kornet AT-14. The latter is a Syrian supplied missile capable of targeting low-flying helicopters. Iraqi Fedayeen irregulars used the Kornet against U.S. forces in 2003. The most portable versions of these weapons are carried in a fiberglass case with a launching rail attached to the lid.



On July 30, the Israeli army published photos of various anti-tank missiles they claim to have found in a Hezbollah bunker (see: www.hnn.co.il/index.php. The weapons include Saggers and TOW missiles. The TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) missile is a formidable weapon first produced by the United States in the 1970s. These missiles were of interest as their packing crates were marked 2001, suggesting that these were relatively new additions to Hezbollah's arsenal and not part of the shipment of TOW missiles from Israel to Iran that was part of the Iran-Contra scandal of 1986 (the shelf-life of the TOW is roughly 20 years). On August 6, Israeli Major-General Benny Gantz showed film of BGM-71 TOW and Sagger AT-3 missiles he reported were captured at one of Hezbollah's field headquarters (Haaretz, August 6).



The primary target of Hezbollah's battlefield missiles is the Israeli-made Merkava tank. The Merkava was designed for the maximum protection of its crews, with heavy armor and a rear escape hatch. The emphasis on crew survival is not simply a humanitarian gesture; the small country of Israel cannot provide an endless number of trained, combat-ready tank crews if casualties begin to mount. The tank is also designed to be easily and quickly repaired, a specialty of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). The modular armor plating can be easily replaced if damaged, or replaced entirely with upgraded materials when available. The first generation of Merkavas was built in the 1970s and was soon deployed in Lebanon in 1982. The much-improved Merkava Mk 4 has been Israel's main battle-tank since its introduction in 2004.



Current battlefield reports suggest that Hezbollah fighters are well-trained in aiming at the Merkava's most vulnerable points, resulting in as many as one-quarter of their missiles successfully piercing the armor (Yediot Aharonot, August 10). Hezbollah attacks on Merkava tanks during the November 2005 raid on the border town of Ghajar were videotaped and closely examined to find points where the armor was susceptible to missile attack. While some of their missiles have impressive ranges (up to three kilometers), the guerrillas prefer to fire from close range to maximize their chances of hitting weak points on the Merkava. Operating in two- or three-man teams, the insurgents typically try to gain the high ground in the hilly terrain before selecting targets, using well-concealed missile stockpiles that allow them to operate behind Israeli lines (Jerusalem Post, August 3).



Without artillery, Hezbollah has adapted its use of anti-tank missiles for mobile fire support against Israeli troops taking cover in buildings. There are numerous reports of such use, the most devastating being on August 9, when an anti-tank missile collapsed an entire building, claiming the lives of nine Israeli reservists (Y-net, August 10). Four soldiers from Israel's Egoz (an elite reconnaissance unit) were killed in a Bint Jbail house when it was struck by a Sagger missile (Haaretz, August 6). TOW missiles were used effectively in 2000 against IDF outposts in south Lebanon before the Israeli withdrawal. There are also recent instances of anti-tank weapons being used against Israeli infantry in the field, a costly means of warfare but one that meets two important Hezbollah criteria: the creation of Israeli casualties and the preservation of highly-outnumbered Hezbollah guerrillas who can fire the weapons from a relatively safe distance.



It was suggested that the IDF helicopter brought down by Hezbollah fire on August 12 was hit by an anti-tank missile. Hezbollah claimed to have used a new missile called the Wa'ad (Promise), although the organization occasionally renames existing missiles (Jerusalem Post, August 12). At least one of Israel's ubiquitous armored bulldozers has also fallen prey to Hezbollah's missiles.



The Syrian-made RPG-29 was previously used with some success against Israeli tanks in Gaza. Hezbollah also uses this weapon, with a dual-warhead that allows it to penetrate armor. On August 6, the Israeli press reported that IDF intelligence sources claimed that an improved Russian-made version of the RPG-29 was being sold to Syria before transfer to the Islamic Resistance (Haaretz, August 6). In response, Russia's Foreign Ministry denied any involvement in supplying anti-tank weapons to Hezbollah (RIA Novosti, August 10). The IDF reports that anti-tank missiles and rockets continue to cross the border into Lebanon from Syria, despite the destruction of roads and bridges in the area (Haaretz, August 13).



The Merkava tank has assumed an important role as a symbol of Israeli military might. Their destruction in combat has an important symbolic value for Hezbollah. Hezbollah's tactical innovations and reliance on anti-tank missiles over more traditional infantry weapons will undoubtedly prompt serious introspection on the part of the IDF in anticipation of renewed conflict along the border.





http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=876&no_cache=1#.VzWB1ZF95zo

Anti kinetic measure has been confirmed in the next version of trophy

by moving the engine compartment ? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Trophy is a self reloading system with a very short reloading period. Coordinating such an attack would be next to impossible, and dont forget ull need to penetrate the tank's armor aswell
[/MEDIA]

Does it also come with unlimited supply of reloading material ?
 
no ATGM in the world comes in at 90 degrees or even 80 degrees.


I know the Hellfire missile come in straight down but 90 degree straight down I don't think so.

Javelin does it come down at a perfect 90 degrees to hit this blind spot?? I don't think so.
truth be told bro i was under the impression that spike and javelin have angle of attack around 90 degrees if thats not the case then with every single decreasing degree probability of hitting merkava will also decrease.
 
if that is true no one will buy the israeli Spike ATGM anymore :P

before the 1973 , western propagandists like yourself used to say the Bar Lev line was impregnable , but the Soviet Saggers destroyed many israeli tanks , i'm sure this time too , they have something in their arsenal to counter the most incompetent western tank , Merkava 4 , for now at least Hezbollah has super land mines that trophy can do nothing against , they will even cripple the israeli tanks equipped with mine harvesters




probably something like this

original.jpg




don't worry , a salvo of RPG 7's 10's 29's and kornets will bring down your tank for good , and possibly kill the crew


I doubt Israeli will sell Trophy to unfriendly countries.

if the APS is good enough then like I said all ATGM are obsolete.

Russian APS might even be better than Trophy or maybe Turkeys Akkor is just as good.


it doesn't matter. Spike isn't special if the radar sees it and the counter-measure is deployed then it's just as useless as Kornet.
 
Hezbollah's Creative Tactical Use of Anti-Tank Weaponry
Publication: Terrorism Focus Volume: 3 Issue: 32
August 15, 2006 03:20 PM Age: 10 yrs
By: Andrew McGregor

The Russian-made, Syrian-supplied Kornet missile.

As the world waits to see if the UN-brokered ceasefire in Lebanon holds, the Israeli army will begin assessing its disappointing performance against Hezbollah guerrillas. Among the many aspects to be investigated is the vulnerability of Israel's powerful armored corps to small, hand-held, wire-guided anti-tank weapons. Indeed, Hezbollah's innovative use of anti-tank missiles was the cause of most Israeli casualties and has given the small but powerful weapons a new importance in battlefield tactics.



In a recent statement, Hezbollah's armed wing, al-Moqawama al-Islamia (Islamic Resistance), described Israel's main battle-tank as "a toy for the rockets of the resistance" (al-Manar TV, August 11). Hezbollah's anti-tank weapons consist of a variety of wire-guided missiles (usually of Russian design and manufactured and/or supplied by Iran and Syria) and rocket-propelled grenade launchers (RPGs). The missiles include the European-made Milan, the Russian-designed Metis-M, Sagger AT-3, Spigot AT-4 and the Russian-made Kornet AT-14. The latter is a Syrian supplied missile capable of targeting low-flying helicopters. Iraqi Fedayeen irregulars used the Kornet against U.S. forces in 2003. The most portable versions of these weapons are carried in a fiberglass case with a launching rail attached to the lid.



On July 30, the Israeli army published photos of various anti-tank missiles they claim to have found in a Hezbollah bunker (see: www.hnn.co.il/index.php. The weapons include Saggers and TOW missiles. The TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) missile is a formidable weapon first produced by the United States in the 1970s. These missiles were of interest as their packing crates were marked 2001, suggesting that these were relatively new additions to Hezbollah's arsenal and not part of the shipment of TOW missiles from Israel to Iran that was part of the Iran-Contra scandal of 1986 (the shelf-life of the TOW is roughly 20 years). On August 6, Israeli Major-General Benny Gantz showed film of BGM-71 TOW and Sagger AT-3 missiles he reported were captured at one of Hezbollah's field headquarters (Haaretz, August 6).



The primary target of Hezbollah's battlefield missiles is the Israeli-made Merkava tank. The Merkava was designed for the maximum protection of its crews, with heavy armor and a rear escape hatch. The emphasis on crew survival is not simply a humanitarian gesture; the small country of Israel cannot provide an endless number of trained, combat-ready tank crews if casualties begin to mount. The tank is also designed to be easily and quickly repaired, a specialty of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF). The modular armor plating can be easily replaced if damaged, or replaced entirely with upgraded materials when available. The first generation of Merkavas was built in the 1970s and was soon deployed in Lebanon in 1982. The much-improved Merkava Mk 4 has been Israel's main battle-tank since its introduction in 2004.



Current battlefield reports suggest that Hezbollah fighters are well-trained in aiming at the Merkava's most vulnerable points, resulting in as many as one-quarter of their missiles successfully piercing the armor (Yediot Aharonot, August 10). Hezbollah attacks on Merkava tanks during the November 2005 raid on the border town of Ghajar were videotaped and closely examined to find points where the armor was susceptible to missile attack. While some of their missiles have impressive ranges (up to three kilometers), the guerrillas prefer to fire from close range to maximize their chances of hitting weak points on the Merkava. Operating in two- or three-man teams, the insurgents typically try to gain the high ground in the hilly terrain before selecting targets, using well-concealed missile stockpiles that allow them to operate behind Israeli lines (Jerusalem Post, August 3).



Without artillery, Hezbollah has adapted its use of anti-tank missiles for mobile fire support against Israeli troops taking cover in buildings. There are numerous reports of such use, the most devastating being on August 9, when an anti-tank missile collapsed an entire building, claiming the lives of nine Israeli reservists (Y-net, August 10). Four soldiers from Israel's Egoz (an elite reconnaissance unit) were killed in a Bint Jbail house when it was struck by a Sagger missile (Haaretz, August 6). TOW missiles were used effectively in 2000 against IDF outposts in south Lebanon before the Israeli withdrawal. There are also recent instances of anti-tank weapons being used against Israeli infantry in the field, a costly means of warfare but one that meets two important Hezbollah criteria: the creation of Israeli casualties and the preservation of highly-outnumbered Hezbollah guerrillas who can fire the weapons from a relatively safe distance.



It was suggested that the IDF helicopter brought down by Hezbollah fire on August 12 was hit by an anti-tank missile. Hezbollah claimed to have used a new missile called the Wa'ad (Promise), although the organization occasionally renames existing missiles (Jerusalem Post, August 12). At least one of Israel's ubiquitous armored bulldozers has also fallen prey to Hezbollah's missiles.



The Syrian-made RPG-29 was previously used with some success against Israeli tanks in Gaza. Hezbollah also uses this weapon, with a dual-warhead that allows it to penetrate armor. On August 6, the Israeli press reported that IDF intelligence sources claimed that an improved Russian-made version of the RPG-29 was being sold to Syria before transfer to the Islamic Resistance (Haaretz, August 6). In response, Russia's Foreign Ministry denied any involvement in supplying anti-tank weapons to Hezbollah (RIA Novosti, August 10). The IDF reports that anti-tank missiles and rockets continue to cross the border into Lebanon from Syria, despite the destruction of roads and bridges in the area (Haaretz, August 13).



The Merkava tank has assumed an important role as a symbol of Israeli military might. Their destruction in combat has an important symbolic value for Hezbollah. Hezbollah's tactical innovations and reliance on anti-tank missiles over more traditional infantry weapons will undoubtedly prompt serious introspection on the part of the IDF in anticipation of renewed conflict along the border.





http://www.jamestown.org/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=876&no_cache=1#.VzWB1ZF95zo



by moving the engine compartment ? :rofl::rofl::rofl:



Does it also come with unlimited supply of reloading material ?
On July 22, 2014, according to a video by a Palestinian group, the Trophy system installed on a Merkava IV tank successfully intercepted an RPG-29rocket fired at the tank.
As for ammunition, its in form of bullets so one tank , especially as big as merkava can store alot of interceptors

I doubt Israeli will sell Trophy to unfriendly countries.

if the APS is good enough then like I said all ATGM are obsolete.

Russian APS might even be better than Trophy or maybe Turkeys Akkor is just as good.


it doesn't matter. Spike isn't special if the radar sees it and the counter-measure is deployed then it's just as useless as Kornet.
Trophy scored 38/38 in pentagon test. It intercepted 38 out of 38 targets
 
First picture- the land was very dry and the tank fell off
Second one isn't merkava its the Magach
Third one... the Merkava can't protect itself from stupidity, but the crew survived, it was the Merkava Mk2 I believe
Fourth one is a fire caught in training, the crew didn't manage to take the fire off and later it was covered in sand.
Fifth is a Mk1 destroyed in Lebanon

as for the video- it was a fire caught after some idiot smoked there and left his cigarette nearby the machinegun ammo.

I doubt Israeli will sell Trophy to unfriendly countries.

if the APS is good enough then like I said all ATGM are obsolete.

Russian APS might even be better than Trophy or maybe Turkeys Akkor is just as good.


it doesn't matter. Spike isn't special if the radar sees it and the counter-measure is deployed then it's just as useless as Kornet.
No, the Spike is better because it hits the targets vertically, making it much harder for most of the APS, such as the Iron First and the Akkor.
Akkor is a copy of the Iron Fist, and the Iron Fist wasn't good enough as it couldn't intercept 2 ATGMs at once, and didn't have that good vertical elevation.
 
the thing i love about his monster is that its not just a tank it is an armored personnel carrier, mortar, ambulance and ifv all in one.but one thing i find hard to believe is its rear protection is as good as other tanks as rear of the tank already has less armor adding a rear entrance will further decrease its protection.its fine in open tank battles but can be a serious issue in urban combat.
Merkava has armored fuel tanks and baskets attacked to its rear hull. That provides goof enough rear protection.
 
Merkava has armored fuel tanks and baskets attacked to its rear hull. That provides goof enough rear protection.
a quick question bro that i was asking other Israeli members here too
spike or javelin in top attack mode vs trophy and merkava who will win.
 
a quick question bro that i was asking other Israeli members here too
spike or javelin in top attack mode vs trophy and merkava who will win.
I dont know exact characteristics of Spike and Javelin, but from what I've seen, in most of cases its not exact vertical attack but rather about 60 grad:


And Trophy should be able to deal with such attack.

1000.1464720927.jpg
 
khizballa's success was the media stunt they pulled and they won

wikipedia says the only way merkava offers extra protection is by having the engine in the front , where tanks poise their front on their way backward , other than that its extra weight proved to be a burden like in 2006 lebanon war where they couldn't climb the israeli desert up across the lebanese border

i know who came with the front engine concept , it was ferdinand porsche ! a nazi !

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=142189
First tank with front engine was British Wippet:

Mk.A_Whippets_in_Japanese_service.jpg


There were several projects with front engine which did not come true:

Swedish Strv 2000:

719436_900.jpg


Swiss NKPz:

unbenannt-04.jpg


US FMBT:

1392240965-fmbt.png


FCS:

FCS_schema.jpeg
 
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why dont you be more specific and say max firing range to make it easier to understand
i think you still didn't get the concept of top attack mode normally anti tank missiles travel in a some what straight path to attack the tank and it normally hits the front sides or back of the tank while spike has two modes 1)top attack and 2)conventional attack in top attack mod missile first gain some altitude and attack the top of the turret because this is were armor is thin.
 
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First picture- the land was very dry and the tank fell off
Second one isn't merkava its the Magach
Third one... the Merkava can't protect itself from stupidity, but the crew survived, it was the Merkava Mk2 I believe
Fourth one is a fire caught in training, the crew didn't manage to take the fire off and later it was covered in sand.
Fifth is a Mk1 destroyed in Lebanon

as for the video- it was a fire caught after some idiot smoked there and left his cigarette nearby the machinegun ammo.


No, the Spike is better because it hits the targets vertically, making it much harder for most of the APS, such as the Iron First and the Akkor.
Akkor is a copy of the Iron Fist, and the Iron Fist wasn't good enough as it couldn't intercept 2 ATGMs at once, and didn't have that good vertical elevation.


I've seen videos of Spike and it comes in at a 45 degree angle not 90 degrees . the radar can see it and countermeasure can destroy it.
 
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