Idea of India wasn’t demolished at Ayodhya. That happened in our ‘liberal’ homes

[untitled]

@untitled

You probably know that this kind of on-line character is known as a suicide troll. Discussion with them is worthless, a waste of time.

Thanks for the reply. I had the impression with my poorly structured sentences I was on your ingnore list...lol

 

[Joe Shearer]

Thanks for the reply. I had the impression with my poorly structured sentences I was on your ingnore list...lol

Ha ha ha (LOL being forbidden by our disembodied belief), I was at lunch.

 

[IsThisNameAvailable]

What if your inner Hindu next tells you my house is built on some sacred Hindu grounds. Am I supposed to expect a mob of your friends outside while you expect me to respect your 'Inner Hindu'?

If the inner Hindu tells me something, your inner whatever should answer.
Hindus believe that at the inside, we are all same. If my inner and your inner is at conflict, forget mandir, mosque or church, the entire physical world will collapse. Its a belief system which begins after the end of other belief systems (a.k.a. religions) and subsumes all others

 

[IsThisNameAvailable]

But they say the same about you.

So which set of Hindus should the rest of us Hindus take our bearings by? Do you represent anyone other than your faction?

Let me answer this seemingly very difficult question
When its me posing a question, dont hide behind them.
When its them posing a question, dont hide behind me.
And, your types wont pose any such question. So pray that only "historians" pose questions to you

LOL

 

[Sam.]

Intelligently cheery picking articles and then artificially create reasoning in the sub conscious. Then fight with those ideas consciously and then quell all other possible scenarios. In the end hallelujah for the masses that they are the most liberal and tolerant of the others idea but their idea which de facto is the only salvageable path.

I handsomely enjoy the choo choo train and driver behind it very unconsciously.

@Nilgiri and others.........

 

[Joe Shearer]

History is full of examples where people in positions of power, wealth and means have committed all sorts of crimes against humanity. Man is easily corrupted


You should do away with your policing, judicial and other evidence based organs of state since your inner self is so mature

Please DON'T respond to him; it makes it difficult for the Moderators, because they then have to track down your post quoting him, and delete that also. It would be a good idea to delete your #116, ignore him/put him on your ignore list, and continue with your conversation elsewhere.

 

[untitled]

Please DON'T respond to him; it makes it difficult for the Moderators, because they then have to track down your post quoting him, and delete that also. It would be a good idea to delete your #116, .....

Done
My ignore list is empty. Why should anyone stay there rent free? Lol

 

[Joe Shearer]

What is your idea of India anyway?
@Joe Shearer

We could, if you wish, re-start the conversation here.

 

[untitled]

We could, if you wish, re-start the conversation here.

Sure

 

[Surya 1]

There is no problem with that, or with your thinking like that.

The article was not about these things at all.

It was about the casual hatred of the Muslim that exists in the minds and hearts even of liberals.

Do you agree or do you disagree?

I agree with that sir but why Muslims are hated every where ? This fundamental question should be asked. They are hated in US, they are hated in China, they are hated in Europe. Muslim countries are worst for Muslims. Here the question is whether whole world non Muslims are Muslim hater or Muslims have some particular mentality which compels others to hate them.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sure

As you already know, there are two existing Two Nation Theories. One the Sir Syed Ahmed Khan version, considered that in religious terms, culturally, linguistically and in every possible way, Muslim and Hindu belonged to two different nations; later, this notion was picked up by others within the Muslim community, and given wide publicity. When Jinnah returned from self-imposed exile in the UK, he quickly adapted this theory and used it as an ideological foundation stone in his campaign for a conservative (in the sense of conservation) future for the Muslims of India.

There was another different version formulated and promoted by Vinayak Savarkar. His variant was that all who had their place of principal worship in India were Indians, those who had their place of principal worship in another country did not belong here. That was an obvious reference to Muslims turning to Mecca to pray, and to Christians, owing allegiance to the Pope. That is the basic idea that is the foundation of Hindutva.

Finally, by default, by contradiction, there was that theory derived from negating everything that the first one said, essentially stating that all Indian citizens were* equally entitled to the benefits of citizenship, irrespective of religion. This, of course, was the Congress stand, and came to be the divide between Congress and Muslim League in 1947.

Without being a supporter of the political party the Congress party, I believe that the only viable way for India to exist as a nation is the third, the One Nation Theory, as it were.

* A thousand apologies, my keyboard hung at this point. It has just recovered.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I agree with that sir but why Muslims are hated every where ? This fundamental question should be asked. They are hated in US, they are hated in China, they are hated in Europe. Muslim countries are worst for Muslims. Here the question is whether whole world non Muslims are Muslim hater or Muslims have some particular mentality which compels others to hate them.

I suggest, very tentatively, that we should ask a Muslim.

Which Muslim? Well, there you have me.

When we set about this exercise, we have to accept that this is your view, an opinion, and a Muslim responding to it may well say that he and his religion are far from being hated, whether in the US or in Europe.

 

[untitled]

I agree with that sir but why Muslims are hated every where ? This fundamental question should be asked.

There are many reasons for this and requires a long answer. But the most obvious reason I can see is the potential of demographic change they could bring (a large portion of that region becomes Muslim) and the associated fear it brings. To prevent this Muslims have to be continually demonized

Without being a supporter of the political party the Congress party, I believe that the only viable way for India to exist as a nation is the third, the One Nation Theory, as it were.

I'll be the devil's advocate here. Will you still call India your home if she becomes a Muslim-majority democracy (Turkey style)?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I'll be the devil's advocate here. Would you still call India your home if she becomes a Muslim-majority democracy (Turkey style)?

Like Ataturk's Turkey? Yes.
Like Erdogan's Turkey? Hesitantly, very cautiously, yes.

Actually, more than Erdogan's Turkey, Indonesia would fit fine.

 

[-=virus=-]

The article was not about these things at all.

It was about the casual hatred of the Muslim that exists in the minds and hearts even of liberals.

True, many seem to have missed what the article was trying to say.

but "casual hatred" is a not just a bad way of framing it, it is wrong.

Most people (educated, wealthy, liberal, your everyday upper middle class type basically) are wary of Islam, doesn't mean at all that they hate all the muslims. Indeed, a lot of them count muslim people as among their friends.

This article also makes a sneaky small 2 line mention about:

It works the other way too. Many Muslim families also warn their children against marrying a non-Muslim. A converted Pentecostal relative of mine once said to me ‘others won’t be saved’.

"warn" LOL.. give me a break !

but very clever, 1 line on the muslim attitude towards others and then muddy the water by dragging in some anecdote about a Christian convert relative.

Is she serious ? Has she absolutely no grasp on the realities on the ground ?

Muslims are by far the most insular community in India. Sunnis, to be specific.

Everybody else on one side, mostly united and proud Indians..... and then there's the sunnis. This is the unfortunate truth of and in India.

Another user here put it quite crudely and asked "why muslims are hated the world over" or something to that extent. It's quite simple, they just do not assimilate, could it be the ideology that prevents them from doing so ? Don't want to get into a theological thing but "shirk" or idolatry is considered among the biggest no-nos for them.

Heh, well good luck with such a rigid unconciliatory, and dare I say it, supremacist attitude in a place like India.

Sure there's extreme right winger Hindu zealots in India and they can be a problem but this conversation is only half had if you're brushing the extremely deep rooted Sunni zealotry and animus aside.

Shame there is no scientific way to quantify it but if there was, I'll bet the Hindus' and others' feelings would measure significantly lower on the "hate scale" compared to the sunni muslim lot.