IAF's Sukhoi jets to be upgraded to fifth generation fighters

[kingkobra]

because its cheaper. Its like apple build ipod in China. Atlas socket use a cheaper Russian engine as a similar American engine would be more expensive to construct.
You guys need to realize that the technology to send satellite and even people to space are yesterday's technology. Just because India does not have the capability does not mean that the technology is advanced.

lol why are you bringing india in this...
are you suggesting that americans can not build cheap yet quality stuff??? i think russia wins here as it has produced so called cheap yet superior quality engine which even americans can afford what is use of fraking technology if your own country can not buy it??

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Sachchi me baw

 

[Abingdonboy]

Guys, guys stop getting your panties in a twist. I can tell you categorically without having to wait for further details about this UPG to emerge that the "SUPER-30MKIs" will NOT BE A 5th GEN FIGHTER. it just won't. But it will be a very, very,very capable 4.5+++ gen fighter, perhaps the best. The reasons, well it is INCREDIBLY hard to build a 5th gen fighter in the first place from the ground up because every little detail has to be considered- air intakes, leading edges, exhaust fumes, skin angles etc etc. Now trying to retrofit this onto an existing 4.5 gen fighter- I don't think so and it is nobody's fault but the plane at the time simply wasn't designed to be a 5th gen fighter only a beast of a 4th gen fighter so unless you want to undertake MASSIVE changes, I mean completely gutting the plane and redesigning almost EVERY tiny bit of it so the plane eventually is an utterly different plane then it is not going tot happen. And even then maybe not as, like I said, the original plans for the plane did not give preference to 5th gen design.


Painting some RAM and redesigning the air intakes will make a big difference as will an AESA radar and other such goodies this will come with so that it will be a dominant force in South Asia but don't expect a 5th gen fighter. Hell, isn't that what PAK-FA/FGFA,AMCA are for??!!

 

[DARKY]

Guys, guys stop getting your panties in a twist. I can tell you categorically without having to wait for further details about this UPG to emerge that the "SUPER-30MKIs" will NOT BE A 5th GEN FIGHTER. it just won't. But it will be a very, very,very capable 4.5+++ gen fighter, perhaps the best. The reasons, well it is INCREDIBLY hard to build a 5th gen fighter in the first place from the ground up because every little detail has to be considered- air intakes, leading edges, exhaust fumes, skin angles etc etc. Now trying to retrofit this onto an existing 4.5 gen fighter- I don't think so and it is nobody's fault but the plane at the time simply wasn't designed to be a 5th gen fighter only a beast of a 4th gen fighter so unless you want to undertake MASSIVE changes, I mean completely gutting the plane and redesigning almost EVERY tiny bit of it so the plane eventually is an utterly different plane then it is not going tot happen. And even then maybe not as, like I said, the original plans for the plane did not give preference to 5th gen design.


Painting some RAM and redesigning the air intakes will make a big difference as will an AESA radar and other such goodies this will come with so that it will be a dominant force in South Asia but don't expect a 5th gen fighter. Hell, isn't that what PAK-FA/FGFA,AMCA are for??!!

All those shaping, Intakes, RAM etc...etc.... are just only one aspect of a stealth fighter and that is STEALTH....... A 5th generation fighter must also have Supercruise, Super Manuverability, Sensor Fusion besides STEALTH...... all these add up with the evolution of 4th generation Radar technologies like AESA and more emphasis is given on Passive sensors like IRST...... all these aspects of 5th generation along with smart missiles and bombs can be Integrated into MIKI.......making it a 5th Gen. Fighter minus STEALTH.

People call F-35 a 5th generation fighter where two main aspects Supercruise and Super Maneuverability lacks...... so whats wrong in the Upgraded MKI which would almost have every thing which PAK FA/FG FA would have expect stealth.

I would also point out that making MKI supercruise capable would be a difficult task as it would require the reshaping of upper fuselage and some tweaking dome to Intakes and flight controllers...... but if its made supercruise capable then it would have similar capabilities to that of Su-35BM in terms of kinematics.

 

[sancho]

People call F-35 a 5th generation fighter where two main aspects Supercruise and Super Maneuverability lacks...... so whats wrong in the Upgraded MKI which would almost have every thing which PAK FA/FG FA would have expect stealth.

Because stealth is the main criteria for a 5th gen fighter! The ability to avoid radar detection, by shaping the airframe, using specialised materials, coatings, or features (radar blocker, ducted intakes)..., Rafale and EF offers even more of these features that the upgraded MKI will have and still, there should be no doubt about that they are not stealth, or 5th gen fighters right?

All this talk about genereations is bogus anyway, because you can integrate many techs and features into very old designs and still they wouldn't be comparable to a stealth fighter. An F16 block 60 has similar radar, avionics and engine techs like the F35, one might be even able to increase the thrust to make it SC, or add TVC, which means that it would have even more so called NG features like the F35, but again, without stealth as the prime capability, it's not comparable!

 

[DARKY]

Because stealth is the main criteria for a 5th gen fighter! The ability to avoid radar detection, by shaping the airframe, using specialised materials, coatings, or features (radar blocker, ducted intakes)..., Rafale and EF offers even more of these features that the upgraded MKI will have and still, there should be no doubt about that they are not stealth, or 5th gen fighters right?

All this talk about genereations is bogus anyway, because you can integrate many techs and features into very old designs and still they wouldn't be comparable to a stealth fighter. An F16 block 60 has similar radar, avionics and engine techs like the F35, one might be even able to increase the thrust to make it SC, or add TVC, which means that it would have even more so called NG features like the F35, but again, without stealth as the prime capability, it's not comparable!

Stealth is the main criteria but that alone does not classify a 5th generation fighter, If that was a case then F-117 was the 1st 5th generation fighter...... what is stealth.... ability hiding from some one looking for you...... for that there are two ways either make yourself invisible by blending your self with the surrounding or temporarily make that guy blind.

A MKI with good and high powered electrons can become stealth by blinding the other aircraft's Radar atleast 4th gen. ones which it would face more often.

Don't take it as bashing F-35 but it would be interesting to see what result these birds could bring out even in mock combat games against upgraded f-16s having AWACS cover....... or Su35BMs but I don't think that would happen.

 

[conworldus]

If India wants a 4.5 gen fighter, why not just buy SU-35 instead...

 

[Vibs]

If India wants a 4.5 gen fighter, why not just buy SU-35 instead...

The MMRCA deal is taking care of that. This deal is to upgrade existing models as well.