IAF might get upto 300 FGFA

[Omega007]

i said very less chance against su-30mki. and more over 40 su-30mki going to get AESA radar. AIM-120c-5?? but the 1st detect and 1st fire option will be with su-30mki only.

Little mistake.40 MKIs will get Brahmos and will be dedicated to maritime strike role and sea denial.At first 80 MKIs will get AESA.After that all remaining.Because IAF has already stated that they will use AESA only on every platform.This can be seen every where-LCA MK2,MMRCA,FGFA and AMCA as IAF told LRDE to develop an indigenous AESA radar as soon as possible.
REGARDS....

 

[angeldemon_007]

I think Indians and Pakistani's have different procurement policy and hence Indians make a huge mistake when they think Pakistan will take similar amount of time to procure something.

India takes a different route, they always focus a lot on TOT. In addition defense scams made process tighter and hence their process needs multiple vendors to start with etc. On the other hand Pakistan seems to just identify what they want and do a quick deal. They are also willing to sign CIMOSA and EULA etc, never heard any issue with regards to that. So their time to procure is way faster.

Hence all Pakistan has to do it to buy 5th generation planes is get some money, their quick procurement will make sure they get it in time.

Example AWACS deal, while India took years to get that materialized. Pakistan quickly filled it.

The reason behind this is Pakistani Army is part of government decision there in Pakistan. Infact in most of the western countries, armed forces are part of government. In India the problem is armed forces has nothing to do with government. MOD is filled with lazy and corrupt bureaucrats and politicians, instead they should be filled with personal from armed forces. Position like defence secretary should be filled by a retired army personal.

This way their would be some discipline in MOD and processes will be swift. The problem right now is the people in MOD don't know anything about defence for eg: IAF completed their evaluation in May-June 2010 but the finalist were selected in March-April 2011 because the people in MOD could not understand anything in the evaluation reports, so IAF had to explain all the technical term which also wasted alot of time.

It would be good if armed forces personnel are stationed in MOD (from all the 3 services) so that they can easily address the grievances and demands of armed forces quickly and effectively which will help in speedy procurement. As far as corruption is concerned it will reduce to some percentage but i highly doubt it can be controlled.

 

[Jungibaaz]

by 2030 the IAF fighter fleet will probably look like this

250-300 FGFA (not counting trainers 250 2 seat FGFA 50 1 seat PAK FA)
250 AMCA (not counting trainers)
272-280 SU-30MKI (with upgrades)
126+ MMRCA fighter (Rafale or EF with upgrades could be more than 126)
~200 LCA Mk2 fighters (i'm going to leave it at MK2 because IAF will probably upgrade its LCA MK1 fleet to MK2 after getting used to it and then if there's a MK3 variant they could upgrade to that)

thats over 1,000 combat aircraft 550 of which are Stealth fighters

2030 is a long way away buddy.
and to be honest, I can't compare the PAF of 2030 to the IAF of 2030.
PAF makes orders much later then IAF, because it usually gets them quicker.

As of yet PAF has not made any orders for 5th gen fighters. the orders at latest are for 2015.
So no point discussing 2030.

 

[Omega007]

No doubt the MKI is already a formidable beast and the upgrades will make it even more powerful.
When did you say by? 2014?
I think JF-17 will have it's Block III being inducted by then, block II is expected this year or 2012.

Good to hear that buddy.So what engines,radars and avionics the block2 gonna receive?THANX in advance.
By the way why did you change your avatar?Previous one was much better.

 

[Jungibaaz]

but the 1st detect and 1st fire option will be with su-30mki only.

this has been debated, time and time again.
and obviously, there is no answer.

BARS + large RCS + R-77 vs AN/APG-69(v)9 + AIM-120C-5 + small RCS

I wont be debating this because no answer will come of it, you decide which is better.
IMHO both are capable of destroying each other, it will be up to the pilots.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Good to hear that buddy.So what engines,radars and avionics the block2 gonna receive?THANX in advance.

Engine.... I have heard from a few senior members that WS-13 has been confirmed for Block II.
Radar... KLJ-10 or NRIET AESA, maybe SALEX AESA (not confirmed which one)
Avionics... A system similar to JHMCS, giving an added advantage in WVR combat. A good ECM system and KG-300G jamming pod which is said to be one of the best jammers around, defeated the ECM of the F-16. WMD-7 targeting pod.

not to mention the greater thrust from WS-13 and increased composites.

So a huge improvement from the first block^^^^

By the way why did you change your avatar?Previous one was much better.

I tend to change it and change it back every now and then, boredom got the best of me

 

[GORKHALI]

F-16 block 52 + AIM-120C-5 is extremely formidable. Do not underestimate it.

And yes the JF-17 is INFERIOR to the Su-30mki.
But it was not made to go against the Su-30mki.

NO !!Wrong their are many other parameters my friend for comparison beside Just Amraam missile even that get nullify due to MKI large radar aperture and More no. of missiles Like R 77M/RVV SD which it can carry 8 at times ,more fuel , highly maneuver and agile thanks to its TVC engine ........Remember this is one of the reason why F16 was rejected in mmrca that it gives little advantage over Su30mki...

 

[GORKHALI]

Su 30mki is a class apart, they are from different world ,if you really want to compare with F16 then compare with Mirage 2000 ,both are in same league .....................Rafale/EF/Su30mki/mkk/mkm/su 35/F 18E/f /F 15E are in same league with lots of similarity..............

 

[Jungibaaz]

NO !!Wrong their are many other parameters my friend to comparison beside Just Amraam missile even that get nullify due to MKI large radar aperture and More no. of missiles Like R 77M/RVV SD which it can carry 8 at times ,more fuel ,much and highly maneuverability and agile thanks to TVC ......

1 vs 1
the extra hardpoints count for nothing, especially if the Su-30MKI is shot down first.
The BARS is more powerful, agreed.... BUT the large RCS of MKI is a seriosu disadvantage and the AN/APG-69(v)9 is more then capable of locking on to it. As I said before, the F-16 will probably have AWACS support so it can switch off it's radar, thus reducing the already small RCS of the block 52. Put all that together and the F-16 will probably detect the MKI first.

TVC? in BVR combat?
Just so you know the JHMCS system and AIM-9M on our F-16s, beats the need for TVC and higher maneuverability.

 

[localoca]

by 2030 the IAF fighter fleet will probably look like this

thats over 1,000 combat aircraft 550 of which are Stealth fighters

All paper planes... I have yet to see one fully dressed in RAM coating... they will all be pray of the Mighty Dragon J-20

 

[ejaz007]

well fgfa will be in service from 2017 time frame and not 2035..
by 2020 iaf will have :-
fgfa--250-300
amca(by 2020)-- 250
sukhoi 30mki-- 270
mmrca-- 126-200
mig 29 smt upgraded-- 69
mirage 2000-5 mk.2-- 51
hal tejas mk.1- 40
hal tejas mk.2- 180-200

more thatn 1200 fighters. all very advance..



by 2020 paf will have:-
f16- 63
j10- 36-150
jf-17 thunder- 250...


Any one can see the number and technology gap... INDIA >>>>>> pakistan..

Can you explain one thing. If FGFA is to come in service by 2017 then by 2020 how do you expect to have 300 in IAF service. That is 100 fighters per year and around 8 fighters per month. I doubt a fighter of this technology can be built in such numbers every month.

 

[GORKHALI]

1 vs 1
the extra hardpoints count for nothing, especially if the Su-30MKI is shot down first.
The BARS is more powerful, agreed.... BUT the large RCS of MKI is a seriosu disadvantage and the AN/APG-69(v)9 is more then capable of locking on to it. As I said before, the F-16 will probably have AWACS support so it can switch off it's radar, thus reducing the already small RCS of the block 52. Put all that together and the F-16 will probably detect the MKI first.

TVC? in BVR combat?
Just so you know the JHMCS system and AIM-9M on our F-16s, beats the need for TVC and higher maneuverability.

Ohji!!!now this is crack pot comment your Awacs in front of su 30mki is your worst idea,heard of NOVATOR K100 AKA AWAC killer ??? what F16 gonna do when it launch back to back BVR at F16 ,now plz don't tell me some fantasy land storythat PAF pilots can do this and that at times........... Forget about RCS man ,when you have 300KM track and search Radar on board...........

 

[Veeru]

I think Indians and Pakistani's have different procurement policy and hence Indians make a huge mistake when they think Pakistan will take similar amount of time to procure something.

India takes a different route, they always focus a lot on TOT. In addition defense scams made process tighter and hence their process needs multiple vendors to start with etc. On the other hand Pakistan seems to just identify what they want and do a quick deal. They are also willing to sign CIMOSA and EULA etc, never heard any issue with regards to that. So their time to procure is way faster.

Hence all Pakistan has to do it to buy 5th generation planes is get some money, their quick procurement will make sure they get it in time.

Example AWACS deal, while India took years to get that materialized. Pakistan quickly filled it.

There are 2 important points that you are forgetting:

1. We purchase new platforms while pakistan gets second hand or heavily water down versions.

2. India gets most advance stuff, it takes time to build them and there is element of using best elements from different vendors/countries like using various products from France/Russia/Israel/USA and then integrate them.

And our babu sucks that an open secrete.

 

[naveenp]

1 vs 1
the extra hardpoints count for nothing, especially if the Su-30MKI is shot down first.
The BARS is more powerful, agreed.... BUT the large RCS of MKI is a seriosu disadvantage and the AN/APG-69(v)9 is more then capable of locking on to it. As I said before, the F-16 will probably have AWACS support so it can switch off it's radar, thus reducing the already small RCS of the block 52. Put all that together and the F-16 will probably detect the MKI first.

TVC? in BVR combat?
Just so you know the JHMCS system and AIM-9M on our F-16s, beats the need for TVC and higher maneuverability.

[/QUOTE

If f-16 block 52 is superior or can counter su -30mki India will choose f-16 block 60 which is offered to india or f18 sh. f-16 detect 1st ??? how come. d u forgt su-30mki can act like mini awac, nd d u forgt we have AWACs too.

 

[DacterSaab]

I have a doubt could someone plz help me the PAK-FA is expected to be ready by 2015 and the FGFA by 2018 so does that mean that during 2015 - 2018 we can purchase PAK-FA? or will indian deliveries begin in 2018 after russians get a few operational squadrons?