IAF might get upto 300 FGFA

[Jungibaaz]

the Novator K-100 at first uses INS Guidance which during its flight path uses Mid-course updates being fed by the MKI along with the Phalcon AWACS and when it is 50KM away from its target the Active seeker is activated and it homes on,if however the seeker is jammed the missile switches to a passive anti-radiation seeker and homes in.Even if one missile jammed a salvo of 2-3 AAMs will do it.

thank you, for clearing that up.

Ripple firing, may ensure a kill.
but the K-100 is a huge missile 6 meters, I reckon it could be intercepted.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So you agreed that Novator is awacs killer

AWACS killer it is.... but, it can be beaten.

 

[Omega007]

AWACS killer it is.... but, it can be beaten.

Anything flying can be beaten,atleast in theory.Problem is detecting a small missile.But again AWACS are very powerful and K 100 is bigger than other BVRAAMs,so can be detected at close range.
By the way,I also think taking down an AWACS from 400 km will be very hard if not impossible,instead 200-250 km is much more realistic.This is just my thought and I may very well be wrong because we don't know the exact capability of K 100's seeker and ecm of pakistani AWACS.
REGARDS....

 

[Jon Snow]

dodging missiles??? this isn't a video game...

most BVRAAMs can out turn any plane, If a pilot was subjected to those kind of G forces they would black out or worse die!

well dodging seems to be the wrong word- how about evade??
Manouverability is pretty important either way.....for eg: one of the first things is take a high g 90 degree turn- which can sometimes break the lock on....
Also if the missile is fired from close to the max range then depending on how fast you can make a 180 degree turn and get out of its range is also a factor....
Am pretty sure there are other ways as well....

 

[Jungibaaz]

Anything flying can be beaten,atleast in theory.Problem is detecting a small missile.But again AWACS are very powerful and K 100 is bigger than other BVRAAMs,so can be detected at close range.
By the way,I also think taking down an AWACS from 400 km will be very hard if not impossible,instead 200-250 km is much more realistic.This is just my thought and I may very well be wrong because we don't know the exact capability of K 100's seeker and ecm of pakistani AWACS.
REGARDS....

Couldn't agree more!!

 

[Omega007]

well dodging seems to be the wrong word- how about evade??
Manouverability is pretty important either way.....for eg: one of the first things is take a high g 90 degree turn- which can sometimes break the lock on....
Also if the missile is fired from close to the max range then depending on how fast you can make a 180 degree turn and get out of its range is also a factor....
Am pretty sure there are other ways as well....

You do have a valid point.If the missile is fired from near the edge of its maximum range then manuverability can save the fighter.But today's fighter pilots constantly trained in BVR combat and will hardly make this mistake.But a sudden high alpha turn can indeed break a missile lock.
However,a fighter can not sacrifice manuverability because a BVR missile may fail or get jammed by the enemy ecm.So there will remain a big possiblity of WVR combat for which agility is most essencial.Who ever tells that WVR combat is history he makes a big mistake.
REGARDS....

 

[Jungibaaz]

well dodging seems to be the wrong word- how about evade??
Manouverability is pretty important either way.....for eg: one of the first things is take a high g 90 degree turn- which can sometimes break the lock on....
Also if the missile is fired from close to the max range then depending on how fast you can make a 180 degree turn and get out of its range is also a factor....
Am pretty sure there are other ways as well....

Maybe true, but such maneuvers can only work for so long, eventually the enemy will get a lock on.
And such maneuvers will stop you from getting a lock on, eventually you will have to stop, to get a lock on to the enemy and he will lock onto you.

Unless the MKI wants to retreat, this method of evading lock on with such turns is impracticle.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You do have a valid point.If the missile is fired from near the edge of its maximum range then manuverability can save the fighter.But today's fighter pilots constantly trained in BVR combat and will hardly make this mistake.But a sudden high alpha turn can indeed break a missile lock.
However,a fighter can not sacrifice manuverability because a BVR missile may fail or get jammed by the enemy ecm.So there will remain a big possiblity of WVR combat for which agility is most essencial.Who ever tells that WVR combat is history he makes a big mistake.
REGARDS....

PAF pilots are well trained in WVR combat because of the lack of BVRs and BVR training in the past.
It would be interesting to see WVR combat between a F-16 block 52 and an MKI.

Do you know the status of WVR training for IAF MKI pilots? If so plz share.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Maybe true, but such maneuvers can only work for so long, eventually the enemy will get a lock on.
And such maneuvers will stop you from getting a lock on, eventually you will have to stop, to get a lock on to the enemy and he will lock onto you.

Unless the MKI wants to retreat, this method of evading lock on with such turns is impracticle.

Not sure if the earlier scenarios may happen but ...

Hypothetically if it ever comes to a manueverability contest or a dogfight with a sukhoi Aircraft ...there is a high probability of the Sukhoi coming out on top. Of course , for AC's like Raptors and Lightnings with Vastly superior avionics , it will not come to such a situation in the first place.

But if an experienced Sukoi pilot ever comes that close to a legacy Aircraft say F 16s or other 4 ++ gen s in the market today , Sukhois will hold advantage because of superior manueverability. It will be a contest of fighter skills and experience after that.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

PAF pilots are well trained in WVR combat because of the lack of BVRs and BVR training in the past.
It would be interesting to see WVR combat between a F-16 block 52 and an MKI.

Do you know the status of WVR training for IAF MKI pilots? If so plz share.
Thanks in advance.

Sure PAF pilots are superbly trained in that particular aspect. It has traditionally been their forte .

However serving MKI pilots put in 400+ hours under their belt on an average , stated by a prof on the forum itself. They are trained for dogfights keeping in mind the air -superiority role of MKI's .

 

[Omega007]

Maybe true, but such maneuvers can only work for so long, eventually the enemy will get a lock on.
And such maneuvers will stop you from getting a lock on, eventually you will have to stop, to get a lock on to the enemy and he will lock onto you.

Unless the MKI wants to retreat, this method of evading lock on with such turns is impracticle.

True.But same thing also applicable the otherway round.Most of PAF F 16s are older b15/b30 with rcs of 3 sqm clean.Bars of Su 30MKI can track a fully armed F 16 at 160 km.Soon it will be replaced with much stronger AESA radars so chances of fast detection by MKI will be much more enhanced.Not to forget PAF fighters use mainly use mechanicaly scanned radars which are easier to jam than PESA/AESA.MKI use both internal barrage jammers with DRFM and israely El/M 8222 powerful active radar canceletion pods.
REGARDS....

 

[Omega007]

PAF pilots are well trained in WVR combat because of the lack of BVRs and BVR training in the past.
It would be interesting to see WVR combat between a F-16 block 52 and an MKI.

Do you know the status of WVR training for IAF MKI pilots? If so plz share.
Thanks in advance.

SORRY bro,can't help much.Only thing I know is that men who fly the MKIs have 500 hrs of flying experience.And IAF pilots practice WVR extencively which is evident that in all the exercises where WVR combat was the theme the IAF pilots did extremely well.
I could have told more if I had been succeeded in the NDA but much to my frustration after passing the UPSC written and medicle tests I failed the battry and aptitude test completely.

 

[Jungibaaz]

But if an experienced Sukoi pilot ever comes that close to a legacy Aircraft say F 16s or other 4 ++ gen s in the market today , Sukhois will hold advantage because of superior manueverability. It will be a contest of fighter skills and experience after that.

The JHMCS of the F-16 undermines, superior maneuverability of MKI.
But true maneuverability does give an edge in WVR combat.

I think it will be down to the pilots

 

[Jungibaaz]

PAF fighters use mainly use mechanicaly scanned radars which are easier to jam than PESA/AESA.MKI use both internal barrage jammers with DRFM and israely El/M 8222 powerful active radar canceletion pods.
REGARDS....

The AN/APG-68(v)9 is mature MSA radar, much harder to jam then other MSA radars, sometimes a mature MSA is better then a new AESA or PESA. Not to say that it is better then the BARS.
I think the 8222 jammers are good stuff, very formidable.

The Pakistani F-16s will have AN/ALQ-173(V) ECM pods, which are quite formidable.

I'm not quite sure which one is better.

 

[suryakiran]

SORRY bro,can't help much.Only thing I know is that men who fly the MKIs have 500 hrs of flying experience.And IAF pilots practice WVR extencively which is evident that in all the exercises where WVR combat was the theme the IAF pilots did extremely well.
I could have told more if I had been succeeded in the NDA but much to my frustration after passing the UPSC written and medicle tests I failed the battry and aptitude test completely.

Whether Indians or Pakistanis, serving the motherland will give a new meaning to the life. All the best for your next attempt bro...