IAF MIG29SMT Superior to F16/52 Report

[Hulk]

I am not a big fan of boasting, whatever be the topic of discussion. If we are getting something it is for our security, similarly Pakistan is buying for their needs, I can see people playing virtual war on this forum. Do you guys get satisfaction playing and winning in dreams. I mean for me I would work hard and when day of war come then fight if needed (I hate war), but what is point fighting virtual war and alienating people in peace.

 

[Ruag]

Don't get to excited hero ! do you think that PAF will let your IAF sleep in peace by perhaps not doing the same now lets to that

And that's where the fun lies - I mean, there is no fun in having a weak opponent. One thing I love about PAF-IAF rivalry is the sheer competitiveness.

That said, I'm keen to know PAF's future plans. F-16s are front-line fighters followed by JF-17. One can say that PAF F-16 and IAF MiG-29 are at par.

However, PAF loses its edge when it comes to countering IAF Su-30MKI. So that is why PAF is inducting J-10... right? And even then, what happens when IAF starts inducting the MRCA jets? And then there is also the Indo-Russian 5th generation fighter project. How is PAF planning to counter these new IAF procurements?

 

[Storm Force]

Its impossible for PAF to Match IAF plane for plane or technology to technology.

J10 maybe answer to SU30MKI but they have ordered 40 against 230-280 mki

F16/52 62 VERSIS 66 MIG29SMT to close to call i give edge to falcons

JF17 Thunder will make up the nos shortage against mki bt the indian fighter is clearly a more potent platform

PAK FA FGFA is too soon its one decade away from induction PAF may have answers by then.

 

[TOPGUN]

And that's where the fun lies - I mean, there is no fun in having a weak opponent. One thing I love about PAF-IAF rivalry is the sheer competitiveness.

That said, I'm keen to know PAF's future plans. F-16s are front-line fighters followed by JF-17. One can say that PAF F-16 and IAF MiG-29 are at par.

However, PAF loses its edge when it comes to countering IAF Su-30MKI. So that is why PAF is inducting J-10... right? And even then, what happens when IAF starts inducting the MRCA jets? And then there is also the Indo-Russian 5th generation fighter project. How is PAF planning to counter these new IAF procurements?

War is a horrorable thing & i don't even wish upon it i would like to see peace in the region ! but when it happens all these numbers and big time dreams fall apart about wat will you contour with this and that ! really all this is non reality saga's no one knows wat will go down and how it will GOD forgive if it does happen! we are a defensive force time and time again i have said this and any one with a brain knows this we know how to safeguard our airspace & land very well so iam sure the rest will fall in place! People need to wake up we can not compare PAF with IAF in anysense .

 

[Adios Amigo]

And that's where the fun lies - I mean, there is no fun in having a weak opponent. One thing I love about PAF is its sheer competitiveness.

That said, I'm keen to know PAF's future plans. F-16s are front-line fighters followed by JF-17. One can say that PAF F-16 and IAF MiG-29 are at par.

However, PAF loses its edge when it comes to countering IAF Su-30MKI. So that is why PAF is inducting J-10... right? And even then, what happens when IAF starts inducting the MRCA jets? And then there is also the Indo-Russian 5th generation fighter project. How is PAF planning to counter these new IAF procurements?

PAF does not need to follow a tit for tat policy, that woud be simply wastage of resources.All PAF needs is to counter, any immediate threat from IAF, like surgical strikes,and in that case PAF current plans for modernisation are right on target. In case of a full flegged war between the two countries, air dominance will play a minimal role,Ballistic and Cruse will be of prime importance,specially for pakistan which has opted for the first strike policy in case of nuclear war. Now this will make sure to stop india from any misadventure in future as it did after the mumbai incident, even with superior inventory in its airforce.

 

[TOPGUN]

And that's where the fun lies - I mean, there is no fun in having a weak opponent. One thing I love about PAF-IAF rivalry is the sheer competitiveness.

That said, I'm keen to know PAF's future plans. F-16s are front-line fighters followed by JF-17. One can say that PAF F-16 and IAF MiG-29 are at par.

However, PAF loses its edge when it comes to countering IAF Su-30MKI. So that is why PAF is inducting J-10... right? And even then, what happens when IAF starts inducting the MRCA jets? And then there is also the Indo-Russian 5th generation fighter project. How is PAF planning to counter these new IAF procurements?

Part 2 for your info we are not weak not only your af knows that but your whole country so to speak! when your gov looses sleep every night and the fear of war with Pakistan perhaps thats where the fun lies right? lets hope and work towards peace ! hence, eather one is weak here so plzz don't start a dumb flame.. rem my friend in war no one goes home alive there is nothing fun in that

 

[Ruag]

Part 2 for your info we are not weak not only your af knows that but your whole country so to speak! when your gov looses sleep every night and the fear of war with Pakistan perhaps thats where the fun lies right? lets hope and work towards peace ! hence, eather one is weak here so plzz don't start a dumb flame.. rem my friend in war no one goes home alive there is nothing fun in that

You got me wrong friend. Competition does not necessarily mean fighting or waging war. I was talking about "fun" with respect to competition, not war.

 

[Ruag]

PAF does not need to follow a tit for tat policy, that woud be simply wastage of resources.All PAF needs is to counter, any immediate threat from IAF, like surgical strikes,and in that case PAF current plans for modernisation are right on target. In case of a full flegged war between the two countries, air dominance will play a minimal role,Ballistic and Cruse will be of prime importance,specially for pakistan which has opted for the first strike policy in case of nuclear war. Now this will make sure to stop india from any misadventure in future as it did after the mumbai incident, even with superior inventory in its airforce.

In other words, if India opts for "surgical strikes" on Pakistan or if there is a limited border conflict (ex. Kargil), then Pakistan would not use nukes against India because of the draconian backlash. And it during such conflicts that air supremacy plays a vital role.

That said, lets hope that there are no more conflicts in South Asia.

 

[Adios Amigo]

In my opinion, if India opts for "surgical strikes" on Pakistan or if there is a limited border conflict (ex. Kargil), then Pakistan would rather face defeat than use nukes against India because of the draconian backlash.

That said, lets hope that there are no more conflicts in South Asia.

you are wrong in your assumptions.Pakistan would not face any defeat, rather make sure india doesnot have the courage for any so called surgical strikes and there comes the nuke and missile powers into play.Thats why India would/can not attempt any misdaventure like surgical strikes because of the draconian backlash.Even if it does go nuts(according to your assumptions),the surgical strikes wont mean the whole Iaf will strike pakistan, most probabaly it would be a few planes, which pakistan would/should eaisly counter in its airspace with its F-16, mirrages, and thunders backed by AEWACs support, and not to forget airdefence. Now even if indian fighters voilates our airspace, will they be willing to loose their prime fighters????and humiliation in the international cummunity for being so irresponsible??? and most important its dignity???
but to be honest with you we,here,do not give a damn about any of the above mantoned factors, thats your problem.And therefore for us to save our degnity and honour, freedom and above all soverignity
we will go till the last option and unfortunately for you we call it the first option.so get your mind cleared about the backlash,which by the way your goverment is clear off.If mumbai didnt led you to surgical strikes then mark me nothing else will do.You simply cant dictate your terms to a nuclear power or else it wont be a nuclear power.

 

[sancho]

Lets stick to the Topic guys.

Can a improved MIG29SMT with HMS,, New Zhuk radar and new engine RD33 live with the much improved PAFs F16/52.

FROM 2011 it will be 66 MIG29SMT (upgraded for $900m) or $13 each

AGAINST

62 F16/52 with (42 upgraded F16 BL15 included.. )

Some notes! The upgrade will be done by 2013 and it's not really clear which RD 33 the Migs will get. Some sources say RD 33-3 which normally is used for SMT versions and should be similar to JF 17 RD 93, some sources says it will be the new RD 33MK with 90kN thrust. Also there are reports of more manouverability with TVC, which is available for both engines.
The Migs might get similar foreign upgrade features like the MKI has with Israeli avionics and targeting pods. On the radar side it will be only the Zhuk ME, that has similar ranges as the AGP 68.
The real interesting points are RCS and t/w ratios, because both should be heavier than the older version and with RAM coatings harder to detect, but it will be difficult to find out reliable infos about that.

 

[GLOBAL HAWK]

Lets stick to the Topic guys.

Can a improved MIG29SMT with HMS,, New Zhuk radar and new engine RD33 live with the much improved PAFs F16/52.

FROM 2011 it will be 66 MIG29SMT (upgraded for $900m) or $13 each

AGAINST

62 F16/52 with (42 upgraded F16 BL15 included.. )

You made a good point but no on seems to address or Discuss this.

Military Professionals pls help??

 

[Barrett]

In other words, if India opts for "surgical strikes" on Pakistan or if there is a limited border conflict (ex. Kargil), then Pakistan would not use nukes against India because of the draconian backlash. And it during such conflicts that air supremacy plays a vital role.

That said, lets hope that there are no more conflicts in South Asia.

What exactly do u mean when you say surgical strikes? Where exactly will they be carried out? In Iceland or somewhere in Africa ? By "Surgical Strike(s)" you are referring to direct military intervention into Pakistan. If there is a strike with-in Pakistan there will be a strike back, this is no rocket science. If I'm a Soldier I won't be worth my salt if I don't strike you back. We are a sovereign country and the whole idea of a surgical strike is just absurd.

As far as the comparison of the two planes is concerned, planes on their own can not be the deciding factor we need to put a a lot of other things into consideration as well, the pilots flying these planes can be one of the deciding factors and what history tells us no offense to anyone we (PAF) has always delivered a much bigger punch then speculated, against far more superior planes.

Cheers

 

[Kompromat]

Hi guys i am posting this video , please explain the F/16's Look at shoot at capibility , Infraded guided weapons , JHMQS how would they help in a Dogfight sanario?

Regards:

 

[blain2]

MTBO/MTBF....F-16 wins hands-down (with 4K hours between engine overhauls, there is currently no Russian engine that comes even close). Availability is a huge issue. Unless IAF is ready to do some massive engine sparing, the old and new Mig-29 variants will continue to be susceptible to these issues and availability rates will be up and down. For PAF, as long as American sanctions are not in place, the F-16 availability will stay pretty good (plus we also need quite a bit of sparing but that is mostly for war contingency rather than due to short MTBF and MTBO).

The other benefit to the PAF is that all F-16s in fleet will be on the same avionics and weapons upgrade path. Maintenance is much easier and cost-effective. IAF definitely has more money, but will also have a greater headache.

Aircraft to aircraft comparison is not really that important. Given the positive cover of AEW, most of these aircraft will not be relying on their own air intercept radars to detect other aircraft.

Even non-CFT equipped F-16s have much greater endurance than the current IAF Mig-29s which due to their limited range remain a PDF. With IFR, the range can be extended, however hooking up with tankers in time of war will mean that the aircraft have to remove themselves from potential areas of hostilities to refuel more frequently...this is a similar issue as if PAF were to provide IFR to our F-7s etc.

Weapons etc., my vote is for the American weapon systems, plus F-16 is a better multirole aircraft than the Mig-29 without a shadow of doubt.

The report is fairly tribal. All of the capabilities that are being talked about for the new Mig-29 being readied for the IAF are or have been on the F-16 and operational. Those who talk about Luftwaffe Mig-29s going up against NATO fighters like the Hornet etc. should realize that in those early days, the Fulcrum had HMS, whereas the NATO aircraft did not. In these days of JHMCS, there is no such advantage to the Mig-29.

Even during the Cope India exercise, the USAF pilots appreciated the power of the Mig-29, but were confident about the F-16 being a very capable aircraft against all of the IAF aircraft fielded. The key will be who is a better pilot and who exploits his aircraft better than the other side. The comparison here is no different than that of the F-86 going up against the Hunter or the F-6s going up to take on Su-7s/Mig-21s.

 

[Storm Force]

I agree with blain on F16 having many advantages esp user interface, near 100% availability against constant problems with russian engines in particular on the mig29

where IAF have openly admitted only 70% availability at best