What's new

IAF MIG29SMT Superior to F16/52 Report


Another Colonel Fornof lover here!

In March 2009 (months after those comments were made), Colonel Fornof, the same guy in the video you posted, wrote this about India-America air exercise -

“We came rolling in, like, ‘Beep-beep, superpower coming through. And we had our eyes opened. We learned a lot. By the third week, we were facing a threat that we weren’t prepared to face, because we had underestimated them. They had figured out how to take Russian-built equipment and improve upon it.”

The Last Ace - The Atlantic (March 2009)

Not only have various officers who participated in the Red Flag exercise proved Mr. Fornof comments wrong, it seems that Mr. Fornof himself cannot make up his mind on USAF-IAF competitiveness. But our Pakistani friends continue to post this video again and again, even if the thread is not related to Su-30 MKI in any way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Guys... India is receiving Zhuk-M2E radar not the Zhuk-M version.

Guskov said that Phazotron is already working on the next modification of its slot array radars, the Zhuk M2E. This version will have a faster processor, allowing it to classify targets by type (for instance, fighters, bombers and helicopters) and to break-out formation targets flying at 20-30 meters apart. The radar can also be programmed to identify aircraft by type – in the case of a new type, it can record its reflected signal and later use it for identification.

The Zhuk M2E should start flight testing this year. The modernized radar will equip 62 Indian Air Force MiG-29s that MiG is modifying to the MiG-29UPG configuration under contract to the IAF. MiG design bureau chief designer Vladimir Barkovsky said here that the first six aircraft have already been shipped to Russia. The Indian Air Force is expected to receive its first MiG-29UPG in 2010.

Apart from that it will also have SAR and ground moving target mode. The some other accessories are OLS-UEM IRST and L-150 Pastel Illumination warning system,
 
Windjammer -

Read Federation of American Scientists review of the MiG-29 -



MiG-29 FULCRUM (MIKOYAN-GUREVICH) - Russia / Soviet Nuclear Forces

To summarize, the only advantage which F-15s and F-16s have over MiG-29s is better avionics. Apart from that, MiG-29s can easily roast their American counterparts. And stop comparing the performance of Sudanese or Iraqi MiG-29s with American jets. Even if you give these countries Eurofighters or Raptors, their air force will still get roasted because of lack of infrastructure and upkeep.

P.S. No offence to Sudan and Iraq.

In todays world for Jet Fighters to be 5 or 6 miles apart is like throwing rocks in the space age.....
 
Depends on which engine the Mig 29 will get, because the RD 33MK is comparable:

Klimov :: Production :: Aircraft Program :: RD-33MK

The link you quote talks about the service life of the engine. 4K hours service life of the RD-33MK is when the F-16 engine is up for the 2nd overhaul (done at 2K intervals) with a total life on the GE F110 engines of around 8000 hours. As such there is a big difference in the longevity of the Western engines with that of Russian ones.
Why? HAL is producing the old and will produce the new engines under license, so why should there be a problem of engine spares?

HAL will be assembling engines. There is a difference between production and assembly...you need to get spares and kits for the latter. Its a costly affair with dependence on supplier for timely delivery of components.

Why again? All Mig 29 will be upgraded, so all will get the same avionics and weapons, that means maintenance for Mig 29 will not be more difficult, or costlier for IAF.

Possible, however all news reports seems to be pointing to fact that if a new Mig-29/35 deal goes through, the existing aircraft and their upgrades would be different from the MMRCA Mig-35s. But you could be right on the commonality.

Yes but only if all AWACS aircrafts in both air forces are inducted and they offer a full coverage of the border region. Till then, the radar of the fighters will remain important and given the fact that IAF already has AWACS inducted and has already a clear advantage in this field with the MKI, makes the radar of the new block 52 even more important.

The Erieye would negate the advantage of the MKI radar given the profile that we would most commonly see the PAF fly. Air defence missions are usually always flown under positive radar coverage. For strike etc., you do require aircraft with their own AI capability however if the past is a precedence to go by, at least PAF aircraft will be conducting most sorties to support air defence missions over own airspace. Not discounting the need for AI radars, but I think there will be considerable redundancy in the near future.
 
Last edited:
Windjammer -

Read Federation of American Scientists review of the MiG-29 -



MiG-29 FULCRUM (MIKOYAN-GUREVICH) - Russia / Soviet Nuclear Forces

To summarize, the only advantage which F-15s and F-16s have over MiG-29s is better avionics. Apart from that, MiG-29s can easily roast their American counterparts. And stop comparing the performance of Sudanese or Iraqi MiG-29s with American jets. Even if you give these countries Eurofighters or Raptors, their air force will still get roasted because of lack of infrastructure and upkeep.

P.S. No offence to Sudan and Iraq.

In Iraq invasion campaign US kill Iraqi MiG-29 with BVR.
It does not prove inferior training of Iraqi pilots rather technological disadvantage.
If Iraqis also had Eurofighter or Raptors armed with BVR than they could also have equal kills.
So don't exagurate without knowing the true facts and dynamics.
 
In Iraq invasion campaign US kill Iraqi MiG-29 with BVR.
It does not prove inferior training of Iraqi pilots rather technological disadvantage.
If Iraqis also had Eurofighter or Raptors armed with BVR than they could also have equal kills.
So don't exagurate without knowing the true facts and dynamics.

You may be right but See what this video has to say :

GUBA - Weapons Races: The Race for the Jet Fighter. (Part 2 of 2).

Migs being More agile were simply out of contest not becoz of tech, but experiance.

This is infact Plus for PAF, as They have no other way to counter "technology" wise ( MKI n later MRCA/FGFA) but they have Experiance which might just make a different scenario in war theatre.
 
In Iraq invasion campaign US kill Iraqi MiG-29 with BVR.
It does not prove inferior training of Iraqi pilots rather technological disadvantage.
If Iraqis also had Eurofighter or Raptors armed with BVR than they could also have equal kills.
So don't exagurate without knowing the true facts and dynamics.

US used AWACs in Iraq war which gave the advantage apart from training :cheers:
 
I am old enough to know that the SU-30 is the spearhead of the IAF and considered more potent than the MIG-29s.

It's obvious you are oblivious of the reality as a couple of rookie RAF pilots made mince meat of the SU-30s when the IAF visited UK to conclude second part of "India Danush", a HUD video is circulating in certain quarters.

US even apologized to Japan after nuking them.

First of all you cannot compare MIG 29 with su 30MKI.
MIG 29 is an interceptor and su 30 MKI is an air dominance fighter which is used for deep penetration strikes.
what is the point in discussing SU 30MKI in this thread?:undecided:
 
In Iraq invasion campaign US kill Iraqi MiG-29 with BVR.
It does not prove inferior training of Iraqi pilots rather technological disadvantage.
If Iraqis also had Eurofighter or Raptors armed with BVR than they could also have equal kills.
So don't exagurate without knowing the true facts and dynamics.
It is BOTH. Flying, like shooting or even riding a bicycle, is a perishable skill. You cannot forget the basic mechanics of all three machines and how to use them, but unless you maintain sufficient physical conditioning and persistent familiarity with each machine over time, your skill level beyond basic handling will deteriorate. The Iraqi Air Force does not provide the same flying hours as coalition air forces does for their flyers. That alone is enough to place any Iraqi pilot in the inferior position in a fight.

The Last Ace - The Atlantic (March 2009)
Over Cesar Rodriguez’s desk hangs a macabre souvenir of his decades as a fighter pilot. It is a large framed picture, a panoramic cockpit view of open sky and desert. A small F‑15 Eagle is visible in the distance, but larger and more immediate, filling the center of the shot, staring right at the viewer, is an incoming missile.

It is a startling picture, memorializing a moment of air-to-air combat from January 19, 1991, over Iraq. Air-to-air combat has become exceedingly rare. Even when it happens, modern fighter pilots are rarely close enough to actually see the person they are shooting at. This image recalls a kill registered by Rodriguez, who goes by Rico, and his wingman, Craig Underhill, known as Mole, during the Gulf War.

The F‑15 in the distance is Rodriguez’s.

“The guy who is actually sitting in the cockpit staring out at this, he’s locked on to me with his radar, and that,” he said, pointing at the missile, “is about to hit him in the face.”

“So this is an artist’s rendering?”

“No,” said Rodriguez. “That’s actually the real picture.”


A special-operations team combed the Iraqi MiG’s crash site, and this was one of the items salvaged, the last millisecond of incoming data from the doomed Iraqi pilot’s HUD, or head-up display. It was the final splash of light on his retinas, probably arriving too late for his brain to process before being vaporized with the rest of his corporeal frame. Pilots like Rodriguez don’t romanticize such exploits. These are strictly matter-of-fact men from a world where war is work, and life and death hang on a rapidly and precisely calibrated reality, an attitude captured by the flat caption mounted on the frame: This is an AIM-7 air-to-air missile shot from an F‑15 Eagle detonating on an Iraqi MiG‑29 Fulcrum during Operation Desert Storm.
Who would have thought...We now have the last image seen by a man just the moment before he die -- an AIM-7 air-air missile.
 
OK.. let me begin by apologizing for that age remark. It was a bit inappropriate.



I would like a source for that.

And secondly, it goes without saying that Eurofighter Typhoon is perhaps the best fighter jet out there when it comes to air-to-air combat.

So, this thread is about MiG-29 SMT and you are comparing Typhoon with Su-30 MKI. Weird.





Oh really? Firstly, US never apologized to Japan. Secondly, how is this even relevant to this discussion?

Listen up, People, we are merely arm chair generals, discussing/debating only for self consumption, whatever is said here makes no difference in real case scenario and there are certainly no medal tables. The guy in the video is no actor nor was he horsing around in a social club. The fact is this here is a senior US officer debriefing his squadron crew with events and experience.
Anyways coming back to the topic, the point i was trying to make is that the past track of Russian vis a vis American aircraft is not a healthy one and nothing to do with Iraq, Serbia or any other airforce.
Take note.

F-86 v MIG-15 Korean war.
F-4 v MIG-21 Vietnam war.
MIGs v Mirage (Western) Six day war
F-86 v SU-7 India/Pakistan conflict
F-16, F-15 v MIG-23 Battle of attrition over Golan heights.
F-16 v MIG-23, SU-22, SU-25 Afghan,Soviet/Pakistan clashes.
F-14 v MIG-23 US/Libyan clash.
The dilemma was even worse during Dessert storm and related operations.
Western aircraft may be better equipped in technology but there is also another dimension highlighted by "Chuck" Yeagar,
"At the end of the day, a plane is only as good as it's pilot".
 
@WindJammer
F-86 v SU-7 India/Pakistan conflict
Su-7 was a ground attack aircraft. How can you compare it to the Sabre?
Gnats were the Sabre's primary opponents and if I remember right they gave as good as they got against the Sabres.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Military Forum Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom