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IAF lost 152 pilots, 534 aircraft, in crashes in past 30 years

Wow. You are officially the stupidest person on this forum. You out rank raj hindustani. I literally spelt it out for you.

You used terrible logic.

One last time. Read with me.

The entire Pakistani army in both 1965 and 1971 numbered below 300,00 total. (260,000 in 1965, just below 300,000 in 1971). Majority of the military assets of Pakistan was stationed in the main land, that being West Pakistan. East Pakistan, was always lightly defended. In 1971, they were 34,000 soldiers that were stationed there. The population of East pakistan was hostile to the army. So, ultimately, the army would be unable to recruit additional members into its ranks. The soldiers in west Pakistan were unable to reinforce the soldiers in East Pakistan due to the air corridor being shut down. Do you understand? Or you can you still not comprehend the fact that East Pakistan was lightly defended and reinforcements couldn't arrive?

No. 34 k is too low considering East Pakistan was half of Pakistan in 1971.

Even Raj Hindustani won't be that stupid to keep such a low number of force in such a big area.

Once tensions started rising in 1970, corridors weren't shut off. They were only shut off during the war.


Do you have any proper source (not a Pakistani general shout) to back your claim ?
 
No. 34 k is too low considering East Pakistan was half of Pakistan in 1971.

Even Raj Hindustani won't be that stupid to keep such a low number of force in such a big area.

Once tensions started rising in 1970, corridors weren't shut off. They were only shut off during the war.


Do you have any proper source (not a Pakistani general shout) to back your claim ?
Gg you are an idiot


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93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?​


ByNews Desk

1 April 2017
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Dr. Junaid Ahmad|
December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).
But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.
But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan?

The number of 93,000 soldiers that is talked about has been conflated with civilians. West Pakistani civilians who were present in large numbers in former East-Pakistan were taken over into custody by Indian army to protect them from revengeful Bengali crowds and Mukit Bahni.
Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.
It was also helpful in putting meat to the story of three million killed, hundreds and thousands of rapes and genocide. An army of less than 40,000, spread over a large theatre of conflict under attack from guerrillas supported by Indian army was hardly in a situation of doing what it was accused of.
This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?
From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.
The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.
Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:
The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”
Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:
At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.
General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated
It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.
US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.
“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”
Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,
Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said
Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.
Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts
“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote
Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”
S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,
The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”
 
Gg you are an idiot


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93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?​


ByNews Desk

1 April 2017
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Dr. Junaid Ahmad|
December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).


This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.
But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan?


Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.

This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?
From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,


K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

Gg you are an idiot


Global Village Space | News Web Portal




93,000 Pakistani soldiers did not surrender in 1971 because….?​


ByNews Desk

1 April 2017
https://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=https://www.globalvillagespace.com/93000-pakistani-soldiers-did-not-surrender-in-1971-because/
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Dr. Junaid Ahmad|
December 16, 1971, was an ominous day for Pakistan, because the Pakistani army’s scattered divisions sandwiched between an internal insurgency supported by Indian war machine and Indian army columns finally decided to surrender. To this day popular imagination and rhetoric is that 93,000 soldiers of Pakistan surrendered to victorious India and were taken as POWs (Prisoners of War).


This highly exaggerated figure is sustained by Indian, Bangladeshi, international and even Pakistani media. Many Pakistani politicians, out of spite for army, keep on repeating the cliched figure. Ironically, this propagated number has remained unchallenged and is also widely believed in Pakistan, as few accounts have been written to challenge it and today reportedly 65% of Pakistanis are younger than 35 years of age who have no idea of what happened, 45 years ago, in 1971.
But the funny thing is: Pakistan, in December 1971, could not have more than 45,000 soldiers on ground in former east-Pakistan. So where the magical figure of 93,000 came from?

How many Pakistani troops were in East Pakistan?


Undisputed fact is that Pakistan had only one corps comprising three divisions in East Pakistan during 1971. In fact when operation search light began on 25th March, 1971, the total number of Pakistani troops on ground were around 27,000. More troops were sent from west Pakistan but they had to arrive through a long circuitous route since India had blocked air route over India taking advantage of the famous “Ganga Hijacking Case” (believed to be a false flag planned by RAW for this purpose)
The three divisions, of Pakistan army, by end November 1971, comprised a total force of 45,000, on books, including combatant and non-combatant troops. Out of these, there were 34,000 combatant troops and the remaining 11,000 were non-combatants, supporting men and CAF personnel. But between six to seven thousand Pakistani soldiers died in the war also.

This one corp was pitched against three corps of Indian Army from the West and North West and another two corps from the North East and East, a total of five Indian Corps plus 175,000 Indian backed and trained Mukti Bahini and many thousands of Awami League miscreants. When the total number of Pakistan army troops ranged between 34,000 to 45,000 how could 93,000 soldiers surrender?
From time to time various officers and commentators have attempted clarifying the myth but the power of first narrative is such that still the figure of 93,000 POW’s sticks in popular imagination.

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,


K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,
Sry, I don't trust facebook posts.
Or cherry picked influenced quotations. But was expecting this low quality citations from you.

There are tons of sources which claim the number 93 k as well. Including original NYT post from 1972.


And 90k in above article means armymen.

You really think we captured 45 k kids along with 34 k army to inflate the count. Indian army acts with pride.

To me, a 70:30 formation (West Pakistan: East Pakistan) seems more plausible than a 90:10 formation. Meaning keeping only 34 k army in East Pakistan is not plausible.

So, either you were that stupid or surrendered in masses. Anyways, no need to argue further.

Believe what you want to believe.
 
Sry, I don't trust facebook posts.
Or cherry picked influenced quotations. But was expecting this low quality citations from you.

There are tons of sources which claim the number 93 k as well. Including original NYT post from 1972.


And 90k in above article means armymen.

You really think we captured 45 k kids along with 34 k army to inflate the count. Indian army acts with pride.

To me, a 70:30 formation (West Pakistan: East Pakistan) seems more plausible than a 90:10 formation. Meaning keeping only 34 k army in East Pakistan is not plausible.

So, either you were that stupid or surrendered in masses. Anyways, no need to argue further.

Believe what you want to believe.
You have cemented in the fact that you are the dumbest person on the forum. You literally disregarded several sources from those that were actually present during the war, and those that are renowned historians and instead retaliated with a nytimes article from 1973 that doesn't even say the POW were all soldiers like you are saying. They didn't write 90,000 soldiers pow, they wrote 90,000 pow.

My God. You have officially de throned rajhindustani.

@Trailer23

We have a new winner for dumbest person on the forum.
 
You have cemented in the fact that you are the dumbest person on the forum. You literally disregarded several sources from those that were actually present during the war, and those that are renowned historians and instead retaliated with a nytimes article from 1973 that doesn't even say the POW were all soldiers like you are saying. They didn't write 90,000 soldiers pow, they wrote 90,000 pow.

My God. You have officially de throned rajhindustani.

@Trailer23

We have a new winner for dumbest person on the forum.

Again as I said, the 34 k number you are quoting comes from a Pakistani general statement.

All the above writers you are quoting chose to believe his calculations and beliefs.

You are free to believe what you want.

All the above writers don't have higher weightage than Indian news which does claim 93 k soldiers :-



I can share 1000s of articles similar to yours that claim 93k soldiers. It is well known that 100% of POWs are generally soldiers.

How many Indians captured by china in any war were non soldiers.

Don't waste my time further on this.


You have also officially agreed that now Pakistani intelligence is even dumber than Raj Hindustani to keep 34 k army in East Pakistani.
 
General Manekshaw stated he had a 15 to 1 advantage - do the math bakht Muppets. Furthermore Indian army ORBAT record will confirm 34k combat soldiers. Prisoner of war does not translate to front line rifleman and if you are making this statement then you would need to substantiate this. Armies are separated into combat arms (soldiers executing tactical engagements) and combat support. Navy and air force personnel do t fight in the same conflict theater as armies. Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest. As for Indian media having "highest weight" - here is Indian media using video game footage claiming it as a Pakistani attack: https://www.france24.com/en/tv-show...r-pakistani-air-force-activity-in-afghanistan
 
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General Manekshaw stated he had a 15 to 1 advantage - do the math bakht Muppets. Furthermore Indian army ORBAT record will confirm 34k combat soldiers. Prisoner of war does not translate to front line rifleman and if you are making this statement then you would need to substantiate this. Armies are separated into combat arms (soldiers executing tactical engagements) and combat support. Navy and air force personnel do t fight in the same conflict theater as armies. Intellectual dishonesty at it's finest. As for Indian media having "highest weight" - here is Indian media using video game footage claiming it as a Pakistani attack: https://www.france24.com/en/tv-show...r-pakistani-air-force-activity-in-afghanistan

New York Time's original publication in 1971 also mentions 70,000 soldiers :-


Even your Ally of 1971, USA, agrees on a higher number (70 k troops and 93 k POWs).

New York Times obviously supported Pakistan at the time.

So, bother explaining me why NyT is claiming 70 k ?


Again, as I said, I have seen the number (93 k soldiers not PoWs) at 100s of places online. So, can't simply deny the same.

Screenshot_20221226-111837__01.jpg
 
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That's more aircraft crashed than total aircraft Pakistan Airforce has
 
No point arguing with someone that thinks Pakistan borrowed a F16 from Jordan or Turkey, or thinks 93k soldiers surrendered.

Genuine 72 IQ moment
Le ji aap to naraaz ho gaye.
Isn't it true that PAF flew just 3,027 sorties in 71 despite having parity with IAF in the west , meanwhile the IAF flew 11,549 sorties and had a far lesser loss ratio than PAF.
And yeah , 54K pak army regulars surrendered in east Pakistan. If you add air force, navy, police and Razakar PoWs the number reaches 93K

That's more aircraft crashed than total aircraft Pakistan Airforce has
Cursed Mig21s and 27s.
 

IAF lost 152 pilots, 534 aircraft, in crashes in past 30 years​


Data shared by aviation expert Anchit Gupta shows there were 20-30 accidents that resulted in aircraft loss for most of 1990s, 10-20 in 2000s & between single & double figures till this year.​

RAGHAV BIKHCHANDANI
30 July, 2022 07:43 pm IST

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File photo of MiG-21 Bison aircraft | ANIFile photo of MiG-21 Bison aircraft | ANI
Text Size: A- A+
New Delhi: At least 152 Indian Air Force pilots and 534 aircraft have been lost to accidents and crashes over the past 30 years or so, research conducted by aviation expert Anchit Gupta has revealed.
Gupta posted tabulated information of his findings on Twitter Saturday, citing information from Parliament’s question and answer archives, dating back to 1989-90. He also added the caveat that his findings do not reflect in-depth data of the Air Force.
“This is a crude summary. Yes, it lacks many variables such as flying hours, a/c type etc but the trend is clear — DOWNWARD,” Gupta tweeted, noting that number of accidents have slowly come down.
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According to the data shared by Gupta, the number of accidents that resulted in loss of aircraft were between 20 and 30 for the majority of the 1990s, 10 and 20 through the 2000s and between single and double figures until this year.
The downward spiral revealed by Gupta’s findings comes after years of concerns expressed over the safety of Soviet-era MiG-21 aircraft operated by the IAF. The aircraft has often been labelled a “flying coffin”, to the chagrin of many IAF personnel who have continued to swear by it, despite the fact that the aircraft would have ideally been retired long ago had its replacements come.
The most recent incident involving a MiG-21 took place Thursday night, as a twin-seater MiG-21 trainer aircraft crashed near Barmer in Rajasthan, killing both the pilots on board — wing commander M. Rana and flight lieutenant Advitiya Bal.
The MiG-21 Bison was also at the centre of a deadly crash in May 2021, which killed squadron leader Abhinav Choudhary, and a crash in March that year which claimed the life of group captain Ashish Gupta.


Also read: Why likely €1 bn French deal is a reminder of India’s failure to build indigenous jet engine

Phasing out MiG-21s

In 2013, a news report had quoted Defence Minister A. K. Antony as saying that till April of the previous year, the IAF had lost more than half of its MiG-21s. As many as 482 MiG-21s had been involved in accidents and as many as 171 pilots, 39 civilians and eight persons from other services lost their lives in these accidents

In light of these defects, India has had a long gestating project in place to phase out MiG-21s, with the indigenously developed Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas in the late 1980’s to replace the MiG 21s.
After decades of delays due to production issues, the IAF now has 40 of the initial lot of Tejas. Last year, the IAF signed a Rs 48,000-crore deal for 83 Tejas Mk 1A, deliveries.
As of now there are four squadrons of the upgraded MiG 21 Bison, one of which will be phased out later this year. The rest will be phased out by 2025 when the Tejas will start coming in.
(Edited by Poulomi Banerjee)

They have lost 1000 in 40 years.

 
Simple facts, which I know most people neither will read nor bother to understand.

Attrition is measured on the basis of number of accidents per 10,000 hours of flying. On that basis, the IAF attrition rate was actually BETTER than that of the PAF between 1991-1998. This was written about and discussed on forums like Keypublishing which was a great source of data with people from all over the world discussing combat flying.

The following figures were given by Air Marshal (Retd.) Ayaz Ahmad Khan in a Pakistan Institute of Air Defence Studies (PIADS) article.

Annual Attrition Rates – Pakistan Air Force (expressed per 10,000 hours)

Year​
1991/92​
1992/93​
1993/94​
1994/95​
1995/96​
1996/97​
1997/98​
Attrition Rate​
1.89​
1.11​
1.41​
1.23​
1.32​
1.25​
1.40​

During this period, between 1991-1998, the average attrition rate of the PAF was 1.36 accidents per 10,000 hours of flying.
The same figure for the IAF between 1991-1998 was 1.06 accidents per 10,000 hours of flying.

The figures for the number of hours flown for the IAF was given by India's Comptroller and Auditor General's office.

1. IAF Total Flying Hours between 1991/92-1997/98: 1,836,875 hours
2. IAF Aircrafts lost between the same period = 194 (This includes crashes as well as write offs)

Therefore, IAF attrition rate was 1.06 per 10,000 flying hours between the same period of 1991-1998

It's simple maths, but this forum doesn't like simple maths mostly and loves propaganda. But propaganda does little except to fool gullible folks who don't matter in the real world.

The more you fly, the higher the odds that you'll have more crashes in terms of sheer numbers of crashes. But the important statistic is how often you crash, per 10,000 hours of flying you do.

And as the number of MiG-21s have come down in the IAF, so has the number of crashes. 2022 has been an exceptional year for the IAF with only 1 MiG-21UM crash on 29 July 2022. Compared to that, the PAF has had 2 crashes this year,

March 22 - Trainer crash in Peshawar, 2 pilots killed
May 25 - FT-7 crash near Wanda Sher Khelanwala, Mianwali, pilot ejected safely
 
While talking about accidents, only comparison between various types of entities is rate and not absolute numbers.

Absolute numbers aren’t correct representation for mere fact that, different entities may have lesser utilisation or lesser numbers overall.

It is very pertinent in case of aviation. ICAO and all other agencies like FAA, EASA etc always quote rate. These rates are published and available for logical comparison and understanding.

Example - Let’s compare two air forces. Air Force A has 1000 aircraft and Air Force B has just 100 aircraft.
Airforce A has 100 crashes while the smaller airforce B has just 20 crashes.
Air Force B starts celebrating based on absolute numbers. Numb nuts, don’t know that the rate of accidents for Air Force B is 20% while that of Air Force A is just 10%. Although in isolation these numbers would give an impression otherwise.
This is plain and simple explanation.

Aspects like terrain, weather of area, tactics of employment etc would also add to the factors. Planners and those at the helm would consider all these before drawing a conclusion. A conclusion that is logical one.

@Trango Towers, we started off on a wrong note on the other thread. I am sure with your aviation expertise you can throw some light on this aspect.
 
Simple facts, which I know most people neither will read nor bother to understand.

Attrition is measured on the basis of number of accidents per 10,000 hours of flying. On that basis, the IAF attrition rate was actually BETTER than that of the PAF between 1991-1998. This was written about and discussed on forums like Keypublishing which was a great source of data with people from all over the world discussing combat flying.

The following figures were given by Air Marshal (Retd.) Ayaz Ahmad Khan in a Pakistan Institute of Air Defence Studies (PIADS) article.

Annual Attrition Rates – Pakistan Air Force (expressed per 10,000 hours)

Year​
1991/92​
1992/93​
1993/94​
1994/95​
1995/96​
1996/97​
1997/98​
Attrition Rate​
1.89​
1.11​
1.41​
1.23​
1.32​
1.25​
1.40​

During this period, between 1991-1998, the average attrition rate of the PAF was 1.36 accidents per 10,000 hours of flying.
The same figure for the IAF between 1991-1998 was 1.06 accidents per 10,000 hours of flying.


The figures for the number of hours flown for the IAF was given by India's Comptroller and Auditor General's office.

1. IAF Total Flying Hours between 1991/92-1997/98: 1,836,875 hours
2. IAF Aircrafts lost between the same period = 194 (This includes crashes as well as write offs)

Therefore, IAF attrition rate was 1.06 per 10,000 flying hours between the same period of 1991-1998

It's simple maths, but this forum doesn't like simple maths mostly and loves propaganda. But propaganda does little except to fool gullible folks who don't matter in the real world.

The more you fly, the higher the odds that you'll have more crashes in terms of sheer numbers of crashes. But the important statistic is how often you crash, per 10,000 hours of flying you do.

And as the number of MiG-21s have come down in the IAF, so has the number of crashes. 2022 has been an exceptional year for the IAF with only 1 MiG-21UM crash on 29 July 2022. Compared to that, the PAF has had 2 crashes this year,

March 22 - Trainer crash in Peshawar, 2 pilots killed
May 25 - FT-7 crash near Wanda Sher Khelanwala, Mianwali, pilot ejected safely
Nice work, unexpectedly high quality post for this forum.

Also, attrition rate should have actually been lower had the congress bought proper Intermediate Jet Trainers, a lot of the reputation of Mig 21s comes from crashes by pilots in training, not IAF regulars.
 
Also, attrition rate should have actually been lower had the congress bought proper Intermediate Jet Trainers, a lot of the reputation of Mig 21s comes from crashes by pilots in training, not IAF regulars.
It is still better than quite a few countries including some on our neighbourhood. They wouldn’t accept it though.
 
thank you. the picture has been saved.

At the same time. Pay tribute to the great ground impact experiment expert.

Abhe ttu mainay in chutyoon ka own goal nahi dala is image may 2019 wala aonay he helicopter ko ghadoon nay uraadiyaa
 
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