I would like to reply the thread "Mongolia was part of China until 1945"

[qinglong-china]

Firstly I don't agree with a single word of the idea of "Bringing Mongolia back into the Chinese nation".
That is truly unreasonable and unrealistic.

Secondly, someone said that China was a part of the Mongol Empire.
However the fact is that there was not such country officially called "China".
The Mongolian conquered ancient Chinese nations such as Jing, Song, Western Xia and the others, but there wasn't a country was called "China".
You don't say that Prussia conquered Germany nor Mugal Empire conquered India. Same stories.
"China" 中國, a nation founded by Chinese people (Tibetan, Mongolian, Han, Hun, Manchurian etc, has become an officially nation's name since the Republic was established. China was never a part of Outer Mongolia, but Outer Mongolia was part of China until the Soviet toke over and the Khalkha people betrayed the Golden Family and the Central Government.

Besides there are 6 million Mongol ethnic in China nowadays (half of the Mongolians in the world), yet there are only 2.8 million population in Outer Mongolia.
These 2.8 million Outer Mongolian are not even the posterity of Genghis Khan, yet Inner Mongolian (Golden Family) are the direct posterity of Genghis Khan.
If China cannot claim the Yuan Dynasty, then nobody can, especially for Outer Mongolia.

China is a country of [Chinese people], not only for [Han Chinese].
Han Chinese is just a part of the Chinese family, besides, the concept of Han people has been changing for thousands years. The meaning of Han people nowadays is not even the same as the ancient meaning.

Mongolian first recorded in the Old Tang(旧唐书， a book in 945 AD).

 

[qinglong-china]

Firstly I don't agree with a single word of the idea of "Bringing Mongolia back into the Chinese nation".
That is truly unreasonable and unrealistic.

Secondly, someone said that China was a part of the Mongol Empire.
However the fact is that there was not such country officially called "China".
The Mongolian conquered ancient Chinese nations such as Jing, Song, Western Xia and the others, but there wasn't a country was called "China".
You don't say that Prussia conquered Germany nor Mugal Empire conquered India. Same stories.
"China" 中國, a nation founded by Chinese people (Tibetan, Mongolian, Han, Hun, Manchurian etc, has become an officially nation's name since the Republic was established. China was never a part of Outer Mongolia, but Outer Mongolia was part of China until the Soviet toke over and the Khalkha people betrayed the Golden Family and the Central Government.

Besides there are 6 million Mongol ethnic in China nowadays (half of the Mongolians in the world), yet there are only 2.8 million population in Outer Mongolia.
These 2.8 million Outer Mongolian are not even the posterity of Genghis Khan, yet Inner Mongolian (Golden Family) are the direct posterity of Genghis Khan.
If China cannot claim the Yuan Dynasty, then nobody can, especially for Outer Mongolia.

China is a country of [Chinese people], not only for [Han Chinese].
Han Chinese is just a part of the Chinese family, besides, the concept of Han people has been changing for thousands years. The meaning of Han people nowadays is not even the same as the ancient meaning.

Mongolia first documented in the Old Tang(旧唐书， a book in 945 AD)。

 

[qinglong-china]

Firstly I don't agree with a single word of the idea of "Bringing Mongolia back into the Chinese nation".
That is truly unreasonable and unrealistic.

Secondly, someone said that China was a part of the Mongol Empire.
However the fact is that there was not such country officially called "China".
The Mongolian conquered ancient Chinese nations such as Jing, Song, Western Xia and the others, but there wasn't a country was called "China".
You don't say that Prussia conquered Germany nor Mugal Empire conquered India. Same stories.
"China" 中國, a nation founded by Chinese people (Tibetan, Mongolian, Han, Hun, Manchurian etc, has become an officially nation's name since the Republic was established. China was never a part of Outer Mongolia, but Outer Mongolia was part of China until the Soviet toke over and the Khalkha people betrayed the Golden Family and the Central Government.

Besides there are 6 million Mongol ethnic in China nowadays (half of the Mongolians in the world), yet there are only 2.8 million population in Outer Mongolia.
These 2.8 million Outer Mongolian are not even the posterity of Genghis Khan, yet Inner Mongolian (Golden Family) are the direct posterity of Genghis Khan.
If China cannot claim the Yuan Dynasty, then nobody can, especially for Outer Mongolia.

China is a country of [Chinese people], not only for [Han Chinese].
Han Chinese is just a part of the Chinese family, besides, the concept of Han people has been changing for thousands years. The meaning of Han people nowadays is not even the same as the ancient meaning.

Tuerhute moved westward and then returned to the east， the test example of the migration of peoples

 

[rcrmj]

Speak up against censorship

I enjoy having a healthy debate on military issues. Unfortunately, PDF has changed dramatically over the last four years. Censorship has become prevalent with "locked" or "deleted" threads.

Have you noticed most of the threads have no discussion? They're more like blogs tracking the latest news articles. The threads are pretty dead with no new ideas or debate.

I'm willing to debate you on Mongolia. If we can't discuss it here, please google Chinese Defence Forum (or Chinesedefence.com which is the sister forum to PDF and has the same owner). I am a member at CDF and we can discuss all sorts of military matters without being censored.

welcome back mate``miss you here on PDF,
dont worry, you can have healthy debate with decent members here and ignore those ignorant sinophobias```some of us will handle them in our own fashion,

This isnt about Vietnam or Martian2, So kindly donot derail the thread if you haven't got anything meaningful to contribute.

those vietcong boots main mission here is to making PDF as bad as their third world hole``you know he stais in Germany for a reason``

No, China belong to Han. China中国=大汉=华夏。

this is stupid idea``really, very stupid

 

[Bob Ong]

China did not exist when the Mongolians captured it in the 1200's.

But now, most of the Mongolians live in China.

 

[Beerbal]

1. There was no nation state in early days, it was either Kingdom or group of kingdoms.
2. China(communist) use history according to there convenience, They take the Map of some random dynasty and claim Tibet and China.
3. Chinese claims are just like, Italy take old Roman Map and claim Britain to be parts of it, or India take old Mauryan Map and claim indomasia to Afghanistan.

China did not exist when the Mongolians captured it in the 1200's.

But now, most of the Mongolians live in China.

Correct, what if Mongolia claim China as part of Greater Mongolian Republic. There was a time when Mongols captured part of china, Mongols too can claim the way chinese claim.

 

[Snomannen]

China did not exist when the Mongolians captured it in the 1200's.

But now, most of the Mongolians live in China.

China was a concept but not a country.
Vietnam, Korea and Japan used to call themselves "China" (中華/中&#22283, so they are Chinese?

 

[India defense]

China is becoming goon...they have border issue with all neighboring countries... Japan, Mongolia, India, Philippines, Vietnam, Tibet, S Korea, Russia and others S china Sea countries

 

[Viet]

China was a concept but not a country.
Vietnam, Korea and Japan used to call themselves "China" (中華/中&#22283, so they are Chinese?

Interesting definition. Basically the $1ml question is: where China begins, and where it ends?
Sure, the Viets are not Han´s.

 

[Snomannen]

1. There was no nation state in early days, it was either Kingdom or group of kingdoms.
2. China(communist) use history according to there convenience, They take the Map of some random dynasty and claim Tibet and China.
3. Chinese claims are just like, Italy take old Roman Map and claim Britain to be parts of it, or India take old Mauryan Map and claim indomasia to Afghanistan.

Correct, what if Mongolia claim China as part of Greater Mongolian Republic. There was a time when Mongols captured part of china, Mongols too can claim the way chinese claim.

Who doesn't use their history according to their convenience, what happened to Goa?

Tibet has been ruling and be part of the central government since the Qing Dynasty. The monks and the nobilities betrayed their country, the government made the action of counterinsurgency, which is absolutely reasonable in any countries.

Does the Republic of Italy even inherit a single sovereignty from the Roman Empire?
The Yuan Dynasty inherited from Song, Jing and other nations. The Ming Dynasty inherited from Yuan, the Qing Dynastry ingerited from Northern Yuan and Qing. The Republic was inherited from the Qing Empire. Simply as that.

Besides China used to own lands from Korea, Vietnam, Myanmar, Kazakhstan etc, why doesn't the Chinese government claim them all, think about it.
Greece was even opposed to the name of Macedonia is used by the "Republic of Macedonia"
Based on what conditions can Modern Mongolia makes should a claim?
As I mentioned before,
1. China was never a part of Outer Mongolia, but Outer Mongolia was part of Modern China;
2. Outer Mongolian are not even the posterity of Genghis Khan, yet Inner Mongolian (Golden Family) are.
3. The cradle of Mongolian, Hulun Buir, belongs to China.

Based on your logic, the Republic of Macedonia should claims Greece as part of Greater Macedonia Republic.
Also if Pakistan changes their name to Mughal, Pakistani can claim the whole India.

Interesting definition. Basically the $1ml question is: where China begins, and where it ends?
Sure, the Viets are not Han´s.

As I said, the concept of China (中國, the Middle Kingdom/Land) was firstly appeared thousands year ago,
but "China" was never used as an official name of a signal nation until the Republic was formed.

 

[Viet]

As I said, the concept of China (中國, the Middle Kingdom/Land) was firstly appeared thousands year ago,
but "China" was never used as an official name of a signal nation until the Republic was formed.

So what is China? Chinese cultures? Chinese identity? China´s claim in the South Sea?

 

[EagleEyes]

If there are threads that are being locked or deleted you can complain to me. PDF doesn't believe in censorship.

 

[Snomannen]

China is a country, is there any doubt?

 

[Snomannen]

So what is China? Chinese cultures? Chinese identity? China´s claim in the South Sea?

A country of course, is there any doubt.

 

[Viet]

A country of course, is there any doubt.

Actually Chinese say the South Sea is theirs because they discovered it and their fishermen used it as fishing ground since ancient times. It sounds ridiculous, but that´s all the evidence.

So if "China" begins to exist since the foundation of the Republic, so the Chinese as the new human "race". There is a problem with "ancient times", do you see?