I oppose imran khan decision of giving citizenships to illegal aliens

[Kabira]

Don’t be jealous......
You have to start from somewhere. Karachi can be the pilot phase and then go to other places. You and I know that he will do things that his Predecessors neglected. He will try diplomacy (18 amendment really f*up Pakistan) but if Sindhi wadarias gets in his way, he may have to go with Governor Taj to fix things in Sindh.
Reversal of 18th amendments to make Federation more stronger it should be on the card for new government.
As far as refugees are concerned, My idea is probably the best out of all.

I think you didn't learn anything from this episode. Forget about 18th amendment. Karachi cannot be rat lab. Accept the fact that even if 1 province is against citizenship it will not be granted. After you accept this fact then we can move on.

And best solution is the one I proposed, shifting them to camps near border.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I don't know if there is anyone who can get away from it's own way? Shi'ite have their house in order. Pakistan has only Afghanistan and possibly Kashmir as it's core region. Either it will dismantle into constituent pieces merge with or partly merge with it's neighbors or take a bold step and carve it's own way to leadership. Staying where you are is not and will not be an answer. Maybe now is not the time for Pakistan but time and tide wait for none. Either people will grasp what they're capable of or die of old age...

 

[Kabira]

I don't know if there is anyone who can get away from it's own way? Shi'ite have their house in order. Pakistan has only Afghanistan and possibly Kashmir as it's core region. Either it will dismantle into constituent pieces merge with or partly merge with it's neighbors or take a bold step and carve it's own way to leadership. Staying where you are is not and will not be an answer. Maybe now is not the time for Pakistan but time and tide wait for none. Either people will grasp what they're capable of or die of old age...

Merger with anyone is out of question, get real. Divided in pieces is realistic option if we allow afghanis/bengolis to become citizens. Pakistan share little in common with Afghanistan. Even if by miracle afghani pashtuns become pro Pakistan, still 75% of afghanistan will still not want anything to do with us. Kashmir is possible if India give up. Merger with India is again out of question. There is a reason why hindus were slaughtered in 1947.

Basically your idea sound like shit, stop smoking hashish.

The question is why persians Afghanistan and Iran don't merge. Why Irani treat them like pigs. No one want extra baggage to carry. We are not talking about colonies where you can treat your subjects like shit and just exploit. USA doesn't allow puerto rico to become state even though people there want it, I wonder why.

Giving citizenship will mean they become equal citizens. More competition, more demands for resource sharing, quota, jobs, all in overpopulated 3rd world bankrupt country. Not to forget millions more that will follow them.

 

[Psychic]

These countries are rising powers and projected to replace the dying West yet no Pakistani cares to look to them and follow them where it will benefit our countries. Why must we always look towards the West?

"He that apes others will never be himself"

Colonial legacy.
Our elite by nature are coconuts(The word British used for Indian civil servants back in those days). Brown on the outside but whiter than white on the inside.
The elites here worship the whites...Western whites to be precise. They try to imitate them and want their liberal ethos followed in Pakistan.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Merger with anyone is out of question, get real. Divided in pieces is realistic option if we allow afghanis/bengolis to become citizens. Pakistan share little in common with Afghanistan. Even if by miracle afghani pashtuns become pro Pakistan, still 75% of afghanistan will still not want anything to do with us. Kashmir is possible if India give up. Merger with India is again out of question. There is a reason why hindus were slaughtered in 1947.

Basically your idea sound like shit, stop smoking hashish.

The question is why persians Afghanistan and Iran don't merge. Why Irani treat them like pigs. No one want extra baggage to carry. We are not talking about colonies where you can treat your subjects like shit and just exploit. USA doesn't allow puerto rico to become state even though people there want it, I wonder why.

Giving citizenship will mean they become equal citizens. More competition, more demands for resource sharing, quota, jobs, all in overpopulated 3rd world bankrupt country. Not to forget millions more that will follow them.

You answered your own question yet your monolithic ideologue mind kept harping on the same direction. They speak Persian yet don't join Iran, they were even former province of the empire. But they have something common with Pakistan that they do not with Iran and that is religion. Plus, they're not a nation state just like Pakistan they share many just like Pakistan. Their clothes and food is similar to Pakistani. They can go anywhere in Pakistan and get an Afghan Naan and Plau. Religion is what brought Pakistan together and nationalism is what broke it. But you wouldn't understand that you'll play the devil's advocate and keep parroting your tunes and mislead yourself and your people.

 

[baapu]

Are you one of those with illegally acquired Pakistani passport? Or you have that mind machine to tell that loyalties of all Pakistanis are just symbolic gesture?

So explain please. What is Loyalty?

While you are at it, also explain what is , who is a Pakistani ? ( aside from having a "National Identity card" how would you define a Pakistani )

I think you didn't learn anything from this episode. Forget about 18th amendment. Karachi cannot be rat lab. Accept the fact that even if 1 province is against citizenship it will not be granted. After you accept this fact then we can move on.

And best solution is the one I proposed, shifting them to camps near border.

Citizenship is not a provincial matter. Its a federal matter.

 

[Kabira]

Citizenship is not a provincial matter. Its a federal matter.

Only if every province is on board, this is why quick U turn.

 

[baapu]

Only if every province is on board, this is why quick U turn.

I believe I failed to make clear what I said.
Legally provinces don't decide who is a Pakistani Citizen. Its the federal Government.

 

[Kabira]

You answered your own question yet your monolithic ideologue mind kept harping on the same direction. They speak Persian yet don't join Iran, they were even former province of the empire. But they have something common with Pakistan that they do not with Iran and that is religion. Plus, they're not a nation state just like Pakistan they share many just like Pakistan. Their clothes and food is similar to Pakistani. They can go anywhere in Pakistan and get an Afghan Naan and Plau. Religion is what brought Pakistan together and nationalism is what broke it. But you wouldn't understand that you'll play the devil's advocate and keep parroting your tunes and mislead yourself and your people.

Then how many countries are nation states in your definition? Looks like only nation state is Bangladesh in this world. And last time I checked Afghanistan and Iran have same religion. If sunni baloch and kurds can be part of Iran then why not persian speaking Afghanistan.

Pakistanis have developed their own culture, mindset, identity in last 72 years and no other nation fit in it. Others can only break it. This is why bengolis and afghanis shouldn't be given citizenship. Both countries people hate us. It will open floodgates like no other which state can never afford. Every province needs to be on board for citizenship which is why chances of that law ever passing is 0. I see more chances of kalabagh dam in next 50 years then citizenship to refugees.

Best option is to shift them to refugee camps near border.

I believe I failed to make clear what I said.
Legally provinces don't decide who is a Pakistani Citizen. Its the federal Government.

Not when it comes to foreigners like afghanis and bengoli refugees. Federal government have no power till every province decide to get on board and change law.

 

[baapu]

Not when it comes to foreigners like afghanis and bengoli refugees. Federal government have no power till every province decide to get on board and change law.

What I am saying is not my personal opinion. Its what the actual law is.
Federal Government is under no obligation to consult with provinces.

 

[Kabira]

What I am saying is not my personal opinion. Its what the actual law is.
Federal Government is under no obligation to consult with provinces.

Please read detailed thread on this in senior cafe section.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Then how many countries are nation states in your definition? Looks like only nation state is Bangladesh in this world. And last time I checked Afghanistan and Iran have same religion. If sunni baloch and kurds can be part of Iran then why not persian speaking Afghanistan.

Pakistanis have developed their own culture, mindset, identity in last 72 years and no other nation fit in it. Others can only break it. This is why bengolis and afghanis shouldn't be given citizenship. Both countries people hate us. It will open floodgates like no other which state can never afford. Every province needs to be on board for citizenship which is why chances of that law ever passing is 0. I see more chances of kalabagh dam in next 50 years then citizenship to refugees.

Best option is to shift them to refugee camps near border.

They say you can't fix stupid. Almost all states Nation states in Europe are just that nations... except for Switzerland and Belgium etc... they were the ones who brought fascism and they are the ones who espouse pluralism now. Eventhough many Muslim countries act as nation states such as Pakistan however very few meet the definition because of centuries of intermixing ... Today, people like yourself feign nationalism where there is none! One day a guy says these have rights and someone else goes for secession because of their nationalism! If you'll grow more fascist so will you neighbor who will grow more Baloch in his ethnicity so will the Kashmiri. Isn't it laughable that you want Kashmir to be part of Pakistan because of common religion yet if same Kashmiris want their own country you quell and quash them how long will you pull this charade?
P.s. I'm out!

 

[baapu]

Please read detailed thread on this in senior cafe section.

I don't know why its so hard to understand and for the Last time.
"Provinces have no say in citizenship." Provincial assemblies enact laws relating to the provincial matters.Citizenship is a Federal matter.

That thread has nothing to indicate otherwise.
its not even relevant to the current debate. since it talks about who is already a citizen. or who is eligible to become a citizen.

What Imran khan has indicated is that he will provide citizenship to the Afghanis / Bangla living in Pakistan.
Obviosly under current law as it stands they would not be eligible or else he wouldnt have had to make the announcement.

 

[Kabira]

They say you can't fix stupid. Almost all states Nation states in Europe are just that nations... except for Switzerland and Belgium etc... they were the ones who brought fascism and they are the ones who espouse pluralism now. Eventhough many Muslim countries act as nation states such as Pakistan however very few meet the definition because of centuries of intermixing ... Today, people like yourself feign nationalism where there is none! One day a guy says these have rights and someone else goes for secession because of their nationalism! If you'll grow more fascist so will you neighbor who will grow more Baloch in his ethnicity so will the Kashmiri. Isn't it laughable that you want Kashmir to be part of Pakistan because of common religion yet if same Kashmiris want their own country you quell and quash them how long will you pull this charade?
P.s. I'm out!

At least Balochistan and Sindh isn't on board when it comes to giving them citizenship. Pakistan can't do much to honour your unrealistic wish. Rather not piss of Sindh and Balochistan over freaking afghanis and bengolis. And Kashmir will only merge if ever after refferendum so it will not be on someone wishful thinking. thank you

 

[jupiter2007]

I think you didn't learn anything from this episode. Forget about 18th amendment. Karachi cannot be rat lab. Accept the fact that even if 1 province is against citizenship it will not be granted. After you accept this fact then we can move on.

And best solution is the one I proposed, shifting them to camps near border.

Syrian people had the same kind of attitude. They think of themselves as better looking, educated and more intelligent than others. They looked down on other Arabs and Muslims. Allah (swt) is tested them and now you see them as refugees going from one country to another. These are lessons for all of us. We need to learn from our mistakes....I hope that you don't get in a situation where you will regard our words.